Toxic Clouds

[Callback]

Please remove their ability to hurt defense objectives and downed players.  There's little to no counterplay for that.  You already killed the ancient to stop it from beating on the damn thing, that should be enough.  For downed players, it takes a long time to crawl out of a cloud, and you will lose most to all of your red bar while doing so.  It's already a disadvantage that players need to wait till you are out or it's gone to even try to revive.  God forbid if a hostage falls into one.  They don't move and will be dead before the cloud dissipates to let you in to revive them.

[Archistopheles]

Please remove their ability to hurt defense objectives and downed players.  There's little to no counterplay for that.

 

 

Loki, Mag, Vauban, Nyx, Rhino, Trinity and Banshee all have counterplay to that.

[MJ12]

Loki, Mag, Vauban, Nyx, Rhino, Trinity and Banshee all have counterplay to that.

 

Mag's 'counterplay' is risky and possibly suicidal, Nyx's is unreliable, Rhino's is self-only, Trinity's is also self-only and dependent on a nearby enemy, so really the only ones are Vauban (who needs to use an Ult), Loki, and Banshee.

[Archistopheles]

Mag's 'counterplay' is risky and possibly suicidal, Nyx's is unreliable, Rhino's is self-only, Trinity's is also self-only and dependent on a nearby enemy, so really the only ones are Vauban (who needs to use an Ult), Loki, and Banshee.

 

Mag can pull team mates to safety, or stand on a box and pull ancients off ledges, or on the ground in front of her.

 

Nyx is not unreliable. You are doing it wrong.

 

Rhino has two forms of AoE CC and a shield that helps him revive fallen team mates without risk to his own health.

 

Trinity is self only? Do you even know what she does? Link is used to absorb the ancient's damage, and Blessing is used to heal a team mate before they even fall to poison.

 

Vauban can Bastille ancients before they even get close, or bounce them out of the way. Dude, do you play this game?

[Scheifen]

Mag can't pull allies anymore. 

[YummyBubbles]

Personally I like the toxic cloud, it means that suddenly, certain enemies have priority, and toxic ancients don't exactly spawn ten at a time, and are incredibly noticeable (giant green cloud in tow and all that). I say keep them as they are, they add the need for some form of tactics

[MJ12]

Mag can pull team mates to safety, or stand on a box and pull ancients off ledges, or on the ground in front of her.

 

Yes, and this often leads to pulling them into melee (i.e. suicide) range.

 

Nyx is not unreliable. You are doing it wrong.

 

You are playing as a Nyx. A Toxic Ancient has downed a teammate in the cloud/gotten to the cryopod. You can either use Mind Control (and the Ancient will probably stand still and kill the cryopod/teammate anyways) or Chaos (the Ancient will probably stand still and kill the cryopod/teammate anyways).

 

Rhino has two forms of AoE CC and a shield that helps him revive fallen team mates without risk to his own health.

 

Neither of which are effective against an Ancient who is at the Cryopod.

 

Trinity is self only? Do you even know what she does? Link is used to absorb the ancient's damage, and Blessing is used to heal a team mate before they even fall to poison.

 

Oh good, so you've blown 175 energy against one Ancient. Not actually counterplay.

 

Vauban can Bastille ancients before they even get close, or bounce them out of the way. Dude, do you play this game?

 

Clearly more than you, because you're making arguments which aren't actually counterplay. Your arguments are 'well, if you don't let Toxic Ancients get to you you can survive them' which is simultaneously tautalogical and not at all helpful because the fact that Toxic Ancients are unavoidable melee damage (and often spawn in a gamemode where the thing you need to protect can't avoid damage) is what this thread is talking about, not "oh noes I don't know how to play".

[liavalenth]

...and toxic ancients don't exactly spawn ten at a time...

Yes they do. Only in high wave defense missions maybe, but they do. And the fact that the toxic cloud hurts the cryo pod has never made any sense to me.

I do not agree that it should not effect downed players, it should, but I agree it should not affect the cryo pod. Once you are at high enough defense a single Toxic Ancient getting near the pod is auto loss because killing it causes it to release an immovable aura that deals more damage than the pod has HP.

EDIT: @Archistopheles and MJ12

You two are arguing two very different things, and it should be split between those things. A Toxic Ancient getting to the pod and downing an ally are not the same thing and require different tactics (if they get to the pod very little can be done, while a downed ally can be saved in many ways).

Edited July 25, 2013 by liavalenth

[Archistopheles]

Mag can't pull allies anymore. 

 

Ah. Scratch her from the list

 

Your arguments are 'well, if you don't let Toxic Ancients get to you you can survive them' which is simultaneously tautalogical and not at all helpful because the fact that Toxic Ancients are unavoidable melee damage (and often spawn in a gamemode where the thing you need to protect can't avoid damage) is what this thread is talking about, not "oh noes I don't know how to play".

 

 

Exactly! If you sit on your bum and let the infested swarm the pod, you've already lost. That's the whole point of defense missions. If you've already resigned to having toxic ancients surrounding your pod, then Mag is your only hope. She's the only one that can stop them.

 

However, to call apon some more of my wonderful tautology (thank you for the reference, I enjoyed reading the many renditions of the word), an Ancient that is not near a pod is not a problem. Therefore, Rhino's CC works wonders. Vauban can Bastille as many ancients as the game can throw at him for-figuratively-ever. Nyx can chaos an entire group of enemies before they get to the pod to the same end.

 

Saying that there is no counter-play to a toxic ancient standing on top of you is just as tautological as my statement of an Ancient at distance poses no threat. The counter-play happens between the spawn point and the pod.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Archistopheles

[RealityMachina]

However, to call apon some more of my wonderful tautology (thank you for the reference, I enjoyed reading the many renditions of the word), an Ancient that is not near a pod is not a problem. Therefore, Rhino's CC works wonders. Vauban can Bastille as many ancients as the game can throw at him for-figuratively-ever. Nyx can chaos an entire group of enemies before they get to the pod to the same end.

So what happens if I'm in a match without any of those frames?

[husnielyas]

and loki's counterplay? he kills himself while switch tele-ing with the toxic ancient.

[Archistopheles]

So what happens if I'm in a match without any of those frames?

 

Then your only hope is firepower :)

 

 

and loki's counterplay? he kills himself while switch tele-ing with the toxic ancient.

 

If there's only one, he does not kill himself, and besides, Decoy works much better.

[liavalenth]

Toxic Ancients are the only enemy that can kill the pod after they are dead. That, IMO, is the problem. If a high enough level one gets near the pod you have to move it then kill it because it will auto destroy the pod if you kill it next to the pod.

Edited July 25, 2013 by liavalenth

[husnielyas]

Then your only hope is firepower :)

 

 

 

If there's only one, he does not kill himself, and besides, Decoy works much better.

try switch tele with a lvl 80+ toxic ancient. you get killed by the toxic cloud while the switch happens (though, the switch does take place).

 

EDIT: oh and, decoy doesnt help when the toxic ancient is already beside the pod

Edited July 26, 2013 by husnielyas