Grineer Napalm Too Much Aoe

[Tyre]

I have played Warframe for some time and recently Ive seen fter the last update that the Grineer napalm can practically shoot a Tenno through walls, barricades, and other environmental barriers. As well the blast would appear to have a range of at least four in game meters from where it impacts, even through solid environment. The blast damage is understandable but from such a distance the Tenno can also be inflicted with fire damage while most certainly being no where near the flame. The Grineer Napalm's firing rate is also too fast and counter intuitive for such a large and power wielding enemy class.

These facts are not intended to be interpreted as whining so as to have the developers kowtow, but rather these mechanics re not fit for the environments of the Grineer. The grineer tilesets are all enclosed tight spaces which allows for no flexibility in taking these enemies out. One blast can consume an entire hallways preventing any such offense against them. The flaw in being damaged through solid environment is inherent unto itself, but the other facts are intended to improve game play for the players

[Silraed]

They do fire maybe just a little too fast,if you are unlucky enough to get 2-3 spawn at a time it gets so bad you can hardly see where you are aiming.

[Vitalidad]

I agree. I have been wanting to post something about it also. The range on the explosion is far greater that the visual indicator of the flames. More that 4m it seems. At least a good 10m from the point of impact, a player will get burned.

[xenapan]

dont blame the napalm. blame the fact you arent ninja enough.

[Vitalidad]

dont blame the napalm. blame the fact you arent ninja enough.

 

Even if I roll out of the way before the Napalm hits the ground or run away, I will still get hit by splash damage. I don't encounter Napalms much at high levels so it isn't bad. Yet it is annoying, even if the damage done to my shields is little.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Vitalidad

[LazyKnight]

I am fine with the fact they have overwhelming offense it would just be nice if they could not spam their launcher as fast as they do. On nightmare Ceres maps it is a one hit kill verse a player to get a direct hit from napalm. It wouldn't be a real nerf to make them shot slower since getting hit equal death. One heavy napalm is as dangerous as 3-4 normal heavy gunners just because of that AOE spamming they do.

Edited July 26, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Vitalidad]

So, I've found proof of their insane range.

 

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/901003194555685161/1E965D60F9D52B595A73000CF358046E1ABC420A/

 

To clarify, I was standing one tile behind AND to the left of the current position Vauban is facing when the projectile hit me.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Vitalidad

[Madotsuki]

I don't mind their fire rate as much, but the sheer range of the explosion damage on impact is absurd. It's almost twice that of the fireball itself and hits through terrain, making it nigh impossible to avoid.

[DJxfapfap]

Napalms are overpowerd I think. They can shoot you through walls the blast of the explosion is a little big. It only takes 2 shots to really kill you unless you have over 1000 shields. 

[Paradoxbomb]

I've mentioned this before, it really needs to be fixed, it's especially annoying on Nightmare Mode when it becomes a one-hit kill (or close enough without shield recharge).

[fatpig84]

Personally I think Grineer needs more enemies like this.

They are currently a faction that easily gets face rolled.

 

Napalms are deadlier, but their missiles ain't homing and slow, you don't need to take cover in fact.

Edited July 29, 2013 by fatpig84

[General_Krull]

Personally I think Grineer needs more enemies like this.

They are currently a faction that easily gets face rolled.

 

Napalms are deadlier, but their missiles ain't homing and slow, you don't need to take cover in fact.

Yeah cause cover won't help! Or dodging or volts shield or frosts globe. The fire aoe goes trough all that, it's gone to the point where I quit the mission if I see one of them cause I don't wanna deal with their BS.

[Wesgile]

mind control.

huehuehuehuehue.

 

ot:

yeah, the ones you can see from a distance isn't so bad as the one just spawned behind you without any warnings or whatsuch.

just, suddenly fires, fires everywhere.

[Dipstick]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Flame_Repellent

 

Noobs....

[fatpig84]

Yeah cause cover won't help! Or dodging or volts shield or frosts globe. The fire aoe goes trough all that, it's gone to the point where I quit the mission if I see one of them cause I don't wanna deal with their BS.

 

I played Grineer missions with a Loki that has a grand total of 800 at max of shield and health Hp.

He does Ceres admirably even with rooms full of elites, 3 commanders and 2 heavy gunners and 1 napalm.

 

Radial disarm for life ;)

[fishworshipper]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Flame_Repellent

 

Noobs....

Cool, you linked a PoS mod that nobody uses because it's a PoS RNG situational mod with too weak of an effect to be worth using because humans aren't psychic.

[Vitalidad]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Flame_Repellent

 

Noobs....

 

Nice showing us a mod that might be remotely worthwhile when max, costing the player a whole mod slot just so that a 12% resistance may be present when the rare occasional fire is present.

 

----------

 

The issue with the Napalm is that is more of an annoyance due to its presence in a mob. By itself, the Napalm can't do enough damage to kill a high level frame quick enough. However, with is amazing range and rate of fire, it becomes an deadly annoyance when clearing a room. The is going to be constant damage no matter where the player hides. Add to that damage from the other enemies, then it becomes a real threat. The only way to effectively counter it is to leave the area, and wait for the enemies to come after the player. Or just rush by all of them if the room has enough cover to keep the rest of the enemies from killing the player.

[Eirshy]

I find their ability to kill my little Myon more annoying than any of the splash that hits me. These guys, Bombards, and the laser pit parkour room are the only things that can kill her :(

 

At least a bombard's rockets can be shot down or ninja'd, and the parkour pit simply ninja'd.

 

dont blame the napalm. blame the fact you arent sniper enough.

 

Fify. Seriously, you either snipe them from outside their max range, or you get hurt bad.

 

 

 

Yeah cause cover won't help! Or dodging or volts shield or frosts globe. The fire aoe goes trough all that, it's gone to the point where I quit the mission if I see one of them cause I don't wanna deal with their BS.

 

Part of why I run Zorens on all missions that aren't vs Light Infested. I see napalms, I go into skip mode lol

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[XandoCalrissian]

They're really the only dangerous heavy unit the Grineer have and they're nowhere near as common as heavy gunners so I'd say they're fine as they are.

[CaptainohCaptain]

The issue with the Napalm is that is more of an annoyance due to its presence in a mob.

Yes, the same for Ancient Healers, Ancient Disruptors, Grineer Seekers, Grineer Rollers, Leech Ospreys, Shield Ospreys, Corpus Techs... wait, what? Every single challenging mob has it's place under the statement above.

[Eirshy]

Yes, the same for Ancient Healers, Ancient Disruptors, Grineer Seekers, Grineer Rollers, Leech Ospreys, Shield Ospreys, Corpus Techs... wait, what? Every single challenging mob has it's place under the statement above.

 

Rollers are the only bad ones on that list.

 

Healers have plenty of time between pulses for you to kill other things around them- and both them and disruptor are easy to stunlock via melee- hell, so are Toxics if you actually know what the F*** you're doing.

 

Seekers and Leech Osprey, you make like Star Fox and DO A BARREL ROLL! and they've been negated.

 

Shield Ospreys explode if you even touch them, and if you don't, you just use a cold mod and suddenly they're basically just annoying-to-hit +55 Affinity, because cold mods add obscene damage vs shields (up to +180% on rifles and +200% on pistols). Only on the last 5 waves of T3 defense are they really a "problem", and that's solved simply because you're on the last 5 waves of T3 defense- as in your party's badass enough to not struggle with them via either someone pressing 4 (even Sound Quake can kill them at that point; they don't apply armor) or STILL disregarding their shields.

 

And Techs are only annoying because they spawn Shield Osprey... which I already mentioned are like all of the enemies putting on goggles.

 

 

All of the others can be dodged via some means. Napalm's aoe is too big for its cover-ignoring property. The only mob that I'd put on-par with them is the Railgun Moa... except the Railgun Moa dies if you so much as sneeze in its direction, and is single target.

 

 

Rollers are in their own special category. The "you murdered puppies in a past life" category.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[TonyFoot]

Even if I roll out of the way before the Napalm hits the ground or run away, I will still get hit by splash damage. I don't encounter Napalms much at high levels so it isn't bad. Yet it is annoying, even if the damage done to my shields is little.

 

that's another thing that the DEvs need to address; the roll mechanic is ineffective atm. needs a speed AND distance upgrade (just a little), and then a pause or a cool down to prevent spamming, IMHO. That, or the mobs need to stop being such F$%&ING aimbots! seriously, Grataka snipers!

[CaptainohCaptain]

But honestly, the Napalm never should be in lists like this one. They are rare, they are suffer from stagger, they will probably will not land even a single shot if you'll greet them with shot in the face and running around — they don't even shoot on these conditions. And the funny thing is, the explosion damage outside the fireball is so small it's not peeling the skin of rhino in 10 hits (No focus, avangard helmet) even late-game.What comes to cover, you should learn a bit about thermobaric weapon.

[Vitalidad]

Yes, the same for Ancient Healers, Ancient Disruptors, Grineer Seekers, Grineer Rollers, Leech Ospreys, Shield Ospreys, Corpus Techs... wait, what? Every single challenging mob has it's place under the statement above.

 

Ancient Healers, Disruptors: So, you are saying this guys are though because the are surrounded by Leapers, Runners, and Chargers?

You know, they (ancients) are there because all other enemies don't pose a threat by comparison. Ancients don't need a mob. A mob does nothing but delay their downfall. 

 

Grineer Seekers, Grineer Rollers, Leech Ospreys, Shield Ospreys... I recommend working on your aiming finesse. Personally, those things go down while killing something else due to their odd need to get right in front of me. Rollers, those should never catch anyone by surprise. They are meant to annoy us, a job which they fulfill regardless of the situation. 

 

Corpus Techs:  They are slow, their weapons have to charge up to reach full fire rate. Their projectiles do not go through cover. Very much manageable if a player plans what to do or just already knows what to do. Oh wait, they deploy a Shield Osprey... now I have to aim at a target ~5m or less from where I was shooting already. If that is an issue, go ahead and clear the whole room before going up against them. I can vouch that the Techs will not be an issue.

 

If your argument was about those enemy types, all in a mob consisting of 30+ of only themselves. Such as 34 Rollers as a mob, 44 Ancients mob, or 30 Techs mob, then yes they are a large threat as that type of a mob. Otherwise, all those play their part in adding strength to a mob while not making it a pain to kill the rest of the mob regardless of skill level.

 

 

But honestly, the Napalm never should be in lists like this one. They are rare, they are suffer from stagger, they will probably will not land even a single shot if you'll greet them with shot in the face and running around — they don't even shoot on these conditions. And the funny thing is, the explosion damage outside the fireball is so small it's not peeling the skin of rhino in 10 hits (No focus, avangard helmet) even late-game.What comes to cover, you should learn a bit about thermobaric weapon.

 

 

What weapons stagger them? I've never seen it happen. Only thing I do when they really piss me off, is I go and kick them in the face. Bullets just don't have the same effect.

 

The issue is that, while they are easily put down by themselves or with a scorcher or 2 grineer grunts around, they can do real damage to shields when present in a medium, to small size room that contains a mob with several enemies. A room in which if we run around, the player will either die or loss a good amount of health due to the other aimbots that do not care how fast a player is moving. On the ground or through the air. Those rooms. which are common in grineer maps, a player will be a fool to just run around. It is a place were one kills, takes cover/reloads. Moves to another vantage point. Kills again. Takes cover again/reloads, and the repeats. Thats the issue. All that time, even though the Napalm will not get a direct hit, the player will loose shield.

 

I've never been kill by a Napalm. I have however, lost a great deal or all my shields in high levels because they don't get to recharge due to the constant damage being done to them by the Napalm. Which then makes me an easy target for any other enemy to take me out.  All I'm saying is why does the Napalm have too much range? there isn't a need other than to make things more time consuming.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Vitalidad

[BioCharge]

Rollers are in their own special category. The "you murdered puppies in a past life" category.

I'm sorry but that made me LOL for real.

 

Anyways, I can deal with them ignoring cover, if their radius was smaller. In fact, this could give them the role of entrenchment breakers, forcing tenno out of cover. They just need a smaller radius so they can actually be dodged.