Change Ember

[Andaius]

2 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

I've only read the first page and the start of the second, so lemme know if this has already been discussed, but the last time I was in an Ember thread, some things became known to me regarding her playstyle, and I have since revised my opinions on her. I still think she could be more, but I no longer think she needs to be completely redone from the ground up.

For this post, I'll focus on her 4th ability, the crux of this thread: World on Fire.

The primary argument against it is that it is, essentially, a press 4 to win button, when many other 'frames had their press 4 to win buttons altered or changed or removed.

The thing to note when bringing up the whole "press 4 to win" reasoning is that, for some of these 'frames mentioned, the button or ability hasn't actually been removed, just changed somewhat. Saryn's 4 is still a radial DoT. Excalibur's 4 didn't disappear, but rather it was altered a couple of times and eventually made into his 3. Ash and Mesa are by far the most prominent examples. Frost's 4 still exists, Rhino's 4 got even better by merging Rhino Blast into Stomp, Mag's 4 is still the worst of the bunch because it does nothing without an augment that, even then, needs at least 2 casts + polarize to be useful.

It's also worth noting that WoF now is fundamentally different from how it started out. I'm not sure if you're aware, but World on Fire originally affected everyone equally and was a duration-based ability. It's already received more than one rework. So it's important to understand that, whatever your gripes, it's essentially beating a dead horse.

WoF has a limit of five targets at any given time, which is completely different from how Equinox's 4 works. In fact, Equinox's 4 is like a weaker version of how Ember's 4 used to be, with the added limitation that it needs to be charged up and decasted to reveal its true strength. In comparison, WoF is essentially just a minor CC in the panic state plus LOCKED IN damage for 5 enemies. Once those 5 targets are picked, unless they leave Ember's radius, they will continue to burn until they die and a new enemy is picked, for as long as the ability is channeled. This means that WoF actualy gets weaker the more range you place on it, as you have no control over who it might be targeting or when unless you move entire tiles away. It may very well pick the Nox that could tank it all day instead of the more lightly-armoured grineer like Scorpions or Butchers that it's more effective for.

This information is especially useful to understand regarding her augment, Fire Quake. When I first made my argument against Ember, it was essentially that it was random who was going to be knocked down and when. This isn't so much the case, as it is that you are relinquishing more and more control as you add more range. For what? For Accelerant? Which is going to be more useful, a couple seconds of wide area stagger plus damage boost for a single element, or medium-small area knockdown of predicted enemies in an area around you? It was described to me that, with this knowledge, Ember essentially becomes more of a brawler than a caster. Personally I find this to be a failing of her current design that she's more effective in close range than in long range, as squishy as she is, and given that DE sees her as a caster, but it is doubtless effective.

As for her usage against armoured enemies, it's important to note that she is mostly designed for fighting Infested. She does the most damage against them. They like to get in close. However, that's not to say that she's completely helpless. Do keep in mind that Cloned Flesh is weak to heat, yeah? Heat and Viral. To the trick here is to use melee. Daggers and Rapiers have stances that can force finishers, as do a couple other weapons like staves I believe. Flash Accelerant can boost heat onto them, stun nearby enemies and make them weaker to heat. There's also the ever-lovely Naramon, which you can use dashes to open enemies up to finishers. Permanently.

Now you might be wondering, why in the hell would you use Naramon for a heavy caster like Ember, someone who relies on her 4 oh so much?

Well, that's because she doesn't need to rely on her 4 oh so much. And because of her passive. When on fire, she gains +10 energy per second for each second on fire, and +35% power strength bonus. Well, that's kinda useless right? The number of environments that set you on fire are kinda limited, and the number of enemies are limited to the faction she tends to perform worst against.

JAVLOK. Built for status chance and status duration. Shoot yourself in the foot with it. With Hunter Track and Continuous Misery, you can get 14 seconds of fire. That's 140 energy in 14 seconds. A good riven can put that up even higher. Don't even bother using it for damage, it's a stat stick. Jat Kusar is where it's at for the damage. Dem crits. Dem forced slash procs due to the combos. So much heat that you can either build into radiation for armoured enemies or just use with brute force with her Accelerant. Naramon opening up the heavies as needed, but let's be honest... It's not needed, even up to level 130. A Radiation-built Jat Kusar, boosted by Flash Accelerant, will utterly demolish even crowds of heavies.

But then again this is just one strategy.

Indeed, the only error is it's 5 targets on initial cast that always hit the closest guys, then their after until you re-toggle it it will only be 3 targets a tick.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Andaius

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

8 hours ago, zzzNitro said:

By repeating the process of starting at level 0 and "growing" to level 30 each time you get a better grasp at the synergy of the kit, unless of course you level up by exploit, in which case you learn nothing by repeatition.

Hardly. First of all, the 5 target cap is for the first tick, from then on it falls to 3, similar to reworked Peacemaker, without Accelerant HEAT damage falls off rather quickly, similar to how much Saryn and Ash need to synergize their powers. 

Just to humor your train of thought, how fast would you say you could wipe a wave on Draco(pre-nerf) with Mesa? Now compare that to Ember.

 

If you want to hear from people that do understand the underlying problems with Ember I suggest you use the search function on this forum. And just to leave a somewhat useful comment on WoF, I'd be ok with a mechanic similar to Oberon's Renewal.

If you need to use a frame for that long just to understand her kit then I can see why you people dont want her changed, because by the time you figure her out, a new frame has been released. While I dont know the numbers behind any frame, I can learn about 70% just by watching those intro videos DE used to do. Run 1 mission with a frame at max level and I understand them. Shouldnt take more than 1 forma to understand a Frame or weapon, let alone 10. As soon as I read accelerant I knew its something to use a lot/before the other 3 moves.Again, 10 forma is ridiculous.

So speed per kill justifies her not being changed? You do know that Mesa has a LoS mechanism pre and post rework right? Ember does not. So while Mesa will kill them faster if she can see them, Ember is damaging them as soon as they spawn, before the spawn door even opens. Door opens, dead crisp corpses. So thats 1 thing I can say she needs, a LoS mechanism.

7 hours ago, traybong111 said:

I officially declare if you haven't 100-forma'd a frame you don't know anything about it. Git gud and git farming son. /s 

I have a feeling you know about Ash, Mag and Saryn's nerfs by hearing other people meme'ing about it but have no firsthand experience with the magnitude of the nuke got them nerfed. We're talking about frames that, in order, could literally hog an entire maps' mobs because enemies being humped by BS Ash was invincible to all other source of damage and Ash was also invincible the whole time; the frame singlehandedly responsible for DE conjuring up Nullifier, who could nuke the entire map 3 hours into T4S with a button press if it contained a single Shield Osprey; the frame largely (but not solely) responsible for inverse duration scaling which now prevents frames like Ember and Oberon from having a dump stat. Oh and Mesa's old 4 was literally a rapidfire 360 degree turret with a fixed range of 50 meters and no target limit. Comparing those abilities to WoF is quite frankly an insult to such shameless creamy nukes. (And to be fair Mesa and Saryn are still capable of wiping the map with much more ease than Ember.) 

Your talk of effort is quite laughable. WoF is a soft-CC at higher levels--I honestly wouldn't mind WoF just losing its explosion damage and became a pure heat-proc CC (at a lowered channeled cost & higher target cap, of course). If Ember wants to deal any amount of damage at levels past 70 she'd better be parkouring and target prioritizing like a madman. Because at low levels where WoF can kill things fast, nearly all frames with AoE ability would meet your misguided "EFFORT<kill rate" quota for nerf.

And goshdarnit if I put 4 Forma on my Oberon Prime, I expect his max efficiency Natural Talent Reckoning spam to sleepwalk me through the thirteen millionth Kuva Siphon mission to roll the godly Riven my precious Grinlok deserves. 

Because swEET MERCIFUL CHRIST IT'S A DMR SLOWER THAN MOST SNIPER RIFLES AND IT NEEDS POINT STRIKE, THE AUGMENT, AND A 220% CRIT CHANCE RIVEN TO ACHIEVE 100% CRIT. DO YOU KNOW JUST HOW MANY BABY ANIMALS I WOULD KILL TO HAVE GRINLOK'S CRIT CHANCE AT 20S.

WHERE IS MY GRINLOK WRAITH DE.

WHERE IS IT. 

Actually Ash was(and still is) my main frame. Nothing DE did stopped me from having the throne in kills and nothing short of them breaking him will stop me. If Ash is attacking the target you still cant do anything to it and the marked ones were always able to be damaged unless he's about to jump to that target in which they become invincible. Its just his attacks were so fast not too many people notice its possible. Saryn was not a map hog, nor was her 4 a big deal, she stopped 1 shots after like 50-60. All her change did was make her a massive energy drain debuffer.

[Ardhanarishvara]

2 hours ago, Andaius said:

Indeed, the only error is it's 5 targets on initial cast that always hit the closest guys, then their after until you re-toggle it it will only be 3 targets a tick.

Then that would mean that, even with high range, it would still be most beneficial to cast and decast as needed rather than simply toggling it on and leaving it on. Which for me means even more opportunities to top up on energy and power strength boost.

I've been meaning to check out Fire Fright. Will it repeatedly panic enemies as they finish their animation? I know you can essentially re-panic enemies repeatedly by casting Ember's 1, but if I can just lay down a chokepoint for that...

[Terrornaut]

14 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

. . .

WoF has a limit of five targets at any given time, which is completely different from how Equinox's 4 works. In fact, Equinox's 4 is like a weaker version of how Ember's 4 used to be, with the added limitation that it needs to be charged up and decasted to reveal its true strength. In comparison, WoF is essentially just a minor CC in the panic state plus LOCKED IN damage for 5 enemies. Once those 5 targets are picked, unless they leave Ember's radius, they will continue to burn until they die and a new enemy is picked, for as long as the ability is channeled. This means that WoF actualy gets weaker the more range you place on it, as you have no control over who it might be targeting or when unless you move entire tiles away. It may very well pick the Nox that could tank it all day instead of the more lightly-armoured grineer like Scorpions or Butchers that it's more effective for.

. . . 

Now you might be wondering, why in the hell would you use Naramon for a heavy caster like Ember, someone who relies on her 4 oh so much?

Well, that's because she doesn't need to rely on her 4 oh so much. And because of her passive. When on fire, she gains +10 energy per second for each second on fire, and +35% power strength bonus. Well, that's kinda useless right? The number of environments that set you on fire are kinda limited, and the number of enemies are limited to the faction she tends to perform worst against.

JAVLOK. Built for status chance and status duration. Shoot yourself in the foot with it. With Hunter Track and Continuous Misery, you can get 14 seconds of fire. That's 140 energy in 14 seconds. A good riven can put that up even higher. Don't even bother using it for damage, it's a stat stick. Jat Kusar is where it's at for the damage. Dem crits. Dem forced slash procs due to the combos. So much heat that you can either build into radiation for armoured enemies or just use with brute force with her Accelerant. Naramon opening up the heavies as needed, but let's be honest... It's not needed, even up to level 130. A Radiation-built Jat Kusar, boosted by Flash Accelerant, will utterly demolish even crowds of heavies.

But then again this is just one strategy.

"iseeyouareamanofgoodtaste.jpg"

Always good to see someone that thinks and can really make use of Ember and synergize with a kit.  Is important to understand, for any game really, but definitely for Ember, the mileage of your strength depends on your total synergy with your loadout, not just 1/4 of it (powers only).  Why you would not use all available tools and build them towards one or two goals, and why so many people are set on doing this....reapershrug.

11 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

. . .

Actually Ash was(and still is) my main frame. Nothing DE did stopped me from having the throne in kills and nothing short of them breaking him will stop me. If Ash is attacking the target you still cant do anything to it and the marked ones were always able to be damaged unless he's about to jump to that target in which they become invincible. Its just his attacks were so fast not too many people notice its possible. Saryn was not a map hog, nor was her 4 a big deal, she stopped 1 shots after like 50-60. All her change did was make her a massive energy drain debuffer.

I would have fun seeing who comes out on top in a survival mission.  Aside from Draco Saryn or RJ Viver Excal, Ash is the only one who's beaten me for damage and kills a couple times, when I wasn't doing stupid things or had to run afk for a period of time during a mission.  Also, anyone with us would be lucky because there would be so much dead stuff the drops would be great.  People forget all the time that higher kill rate = more drops.  Sure, your boosted chroma can do more damage to that grineer dropship than I will if I don't bring a long ranged single target ability, but, everything else around me will be dying and I'll end up with 3x-5x the amount of kills and probably comparable damage in all missions, if not both.

9 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Then that would mean that, even with high range, it would still be most beneficial to cast and decast as needed rather than simply toggling it on and leaving it on. Which for me means even more opportunities to top up on energy and power strength boost.

I've been meaning to check out Fire Fright. Will it repeatedly panic enemies as they finish their animation? I know you can essentially re-panic enemies repeatedly by casting Ember's 1, but if I can just lay down a chokepoint for that...

Its what I do generally.  High PS, 145 range at most (and constantly moving around as it is), and really, accelerant is what deals the damage.  On my build, 6.6x damage multiplier + 135% weapon damage from Flash Accelerant (now that the buff applies to her and pet I will never look back).

Fire Fright will constantly panic enemies, or at least it did when it came out a while after.  They can still inch through during panic procs in some cases though.  The only use you can get out of this is a high efficiency or duration build and just dropping it all over the place. Infested won't engage, Grineer will get stuck or not engage if you place it far from the place of action. Otherwise this mod is never worth it if you have power strength.  Its more useful than firequake though honestly, for the people that build Ember not to kill anything and just use FQ.

[Ardhanarishvara]

2 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

Its what I do generally.  High PS, 145 range at most (and constantly moving around as it is), and really, accelerant is what deals the damage.  On my build, 6.6x damage multiplier + 135% weapon damage from Flash Accelerant (now that the buff applies to her and pet I will never look back).

Fire Fright will constantly panic enemies, or at least it did when it came out a while after.  They can still inch through during panic procs in some cases though.  The only use you can get out of this is a high efficiency or duration build and just dropping it all over the place. Infested won't engage, Grineer will get stuck or not engage if you place it far from the place of action. Otherwise this mod is never worth it if you have power strength.  Its more useful than firequake though honestly, for the people that build Ember not to kill anything and just use FQ.

Flash Accelerant applies to pet too? I was wondering about that. Oh boy. That's especially nice to know after the hunter mod set significantly boosted their usefulness and potential damage output.

As for Fire Fright, that's good to know, primarily because the issue with enemies getting knocked down as with Fire Quake is that it makes it kind of difficult to perform the more proper finishers since you perform the ground finishers first, then have to wait for them to get back up, then have to do it before they get knocked down again. If I can just panic them at a chokepoint (like leaving the flames at a door for 30 seconds) and then Naramon Dash through a crowd and pick them off one-by-one, that's best for me, especially if I decide to go with pure heat for the extra damage instead of brute forcing with radiation Jat Kusar + slash procs. I mean, that alone is perfectly viable and I suppose there's not much reason I couldn't do both, but even so it almost makes me wish the Flash Accelerant heat added on separately from whatever innate or modded elements were on the weapon.

I believe Toxic Lash does something similar in that it doesn't merge into open elements, although I'm unsure whether or not it merges into toxin combos if toxin's modded in to begin with. Or maybe it does merge in and force toxin status procs anyhow. Dunno. Dunno.

[Andaius]

13 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Then that would mean that, even with high range, it would still be most beneficial to cast and decast as needed rather than simply toggling it on and leaving it on. Which for me means even more opportunities to top up on energy and power strength boost.

I've been meaning to check out Fire Fright. Will it repeatedly panic enemies as they finish their animation? I know you can essentially re-panic enemies repeatedly by casting Ember's 1, but if I can just lay down a chokepoint for that...

I'd say thats not true. Initial casting cost would add up. Depending on your drain factor. I've found( personally) that 145% range with good efficiency, and a 96% duration with then as much str as I can fit in works pretty good. In that you can keep it "always on" so it can do it's job while you do yours with Accelerant and your guns.

[Terrornaut]

3 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

I believe Toxic Lash does something similar in that it doesn't merge into open elements, although I'm unsure whether or not it merges into toxin combos if toxin's modded in to begin with. Or maybe it does merge in and force toxin status procs anyhow. Dunno. Dunno.

It adds heat on separately.  So if you have a nukor and flash accelerant, and no heat on the nukor, then it will do rad+heat damage.  If you had heat on that weapon, it would do rad+heat+heat.  If you had a...Hind because lol, and you put on heat+elec for rad, then with FA you would get increased rad damage.

[Andaius]

1 hour ago, Terrornaut said:

It adds heat on separately.  So if you have a nukor and flash accelerant, and no heat on the nukor, then it will do rad+heat damage.  If you had heat on that weapon, it would do rad+heat+heat.  If you had a...Hind because lol, and you put on heat+elec for rad, then with FA you would get increased rad damage.

yeah, you can get unwanted combo's I think with all the augments that add elemental damage. Hell, I even think they advertised you could for instance combine volts with Saryns and make corrosive damage on everything for instance.

[Justice_Ember]

On 11/25/2017 at 2:34 AM, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

 

If you need to use a frame for that long just to understand her kit then I can see why you people dont want her changed, because by the time you figure her out, a new frame has been released. While I dont know the numbers behind any frame, I can learn about 70% just by watching those intro videos DE used to do.

 

Alright boy genius, your argument is so compelling you convinced me, your understanding of warframe has blown me away. /s

Everything you have said so far only reinforces what I had predicted, you don’t get her, more so than any other frame, Ember is weapon dependent, and thus needs to synergize not only her kit but her armaments as well. 

[Terrornaut]

14 hours ago, zzzNitro said:

Ember is weapon dependent, and thus needs to synergize not only her kit but her armaments as well. 

If you take nothing away from this thread, whoever you, reader, are, take this truth.

Do not see it as a weakness or limitation though. It is a strength, because booooooooooost

Edited November 27, 2017 by Terrornaut

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

On November 26, 2017 at 5:00 AM, zzzNitro said:

Alright boy genius, your argument is so compelling you convinced me, your understanding of warframe has blown me away. /s

Everything you have said so far only reinforces what I had predicted, you don’t get her, more so than any other frame, Ember is weapon dependent, and thus needs to synergize not only her kit but her armaments as well. 

No, its you who doesn't understand anything, period. Her 4 has no interactivity in it, just like each frame I mentioned pre rework. Her 4 is no different than Mesa in any way except Mesa uses guns and cant move while using her 4. Pretend all you want, she's a "P42W" frame, just like the others , even if she was outclassed by all the others.

[Soketsu]

Il y a 3 heures, (PS4)whoistimjones a dit :

No, its you who doesn't understand anything, period. Her 4 has no interactivity in it, just like each frame I mentioned pre rework. Her 4 is no different than Mesa in any way except Mesa uses guns and cant move while using her 4. Pretend all you want, she's a "P42W" frame, just like the others , even if she was outclassed by all the others.

That one of the most ignorant thing you said here. Mesa ult are not just different on that....

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mesa#Abilities

Initial and maximum damage multipliers are affected by Ability Strength, the Pistol Amp aura, and Secondary Weapon mods such as Hornet Strike.

• Secondary weapon fire rate mods (e.g. Gunslinger), multishot mods (e.g. Barrel Diffusion), element damage mods (e.g. Deep Freeze), crit chance and crit damage mods (e.g. Pistol Gambit and Target Cracker) can affect the performance of Peacemaker as well.
• Regulators still gain full mod performance even when giving your Secondary to a Rescue/Sortie-Defense target, but not during a non-secondary 'Weapon-Specific'-Only Sortie Mission.

What amuse me is that even DE do what you request, it won't change a thing, there will be another tool to take the place, your idea is at best incomplete and unfair, but you are not the 1st one to do this and won't be the last.

Fortunatly ignorance can be cured, I wonder if you have the will to learn or if your pride won't allow you ?

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

3 hours ago, Soketsu said:

That one of the most ignorant thing you said here. Mesa ult are not just different on that....

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mesa#Abilities

Initial and maximum damage multipliers are affected by Ability Strength, the Pistol Amp aura, and Secondary Weapon mods such as Hornet Strike.

• Secondary weapon fire rate mods (e.g. Gunslinger), multishot mods (e.g. Barrel Diffusion), element damage mods (e.g. Deep Freeze), crit chance and crit damage mods (e.g. Pistol Gambit and Target Cracker) can affect the performance of Peacemaker as well.
• Regulators still gain full mod performance even when giving your Secondary to a Rescue/Sortie-Defense target, but not during a non-secondary 'Weapon-Specific'-Only Sortie Mission.

What amuse me is that even DE do what you request, it won't change a thing, there will be another tool to take the place, your idea is at best incomplete and unfair, but you are not the 1st one to do this and won't be the last.

Fortunatly ignorance can be cured, I wonder if you have the will to learn or if your pride won't allow you ?

1: Reported. If all you can do is spew insults, keep quiet.

2: All that is post rework, something not posted, just a bunch of stuff I already know, which is why using wiki(a user manipulative site) as a source is a joke. 

3: How exactly does any of tht change the fact that her ult is just a press and forget? She activates her 4 and requires no more player input. Even more so with the augment.

[Terrornaut]

3 hours ago, Soketsu said:

That one of the most ignorant thing you said here. Mesa ult are not just different on that....

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mesa#Abilities

Initial and maximum damage multipliers are affected by Ability Strength, the Pistol Amp aura, and Secondary Weapon mods such as Hornet Strike.

• Secondary weapon fire rate mods (e.g. Gunslinger), multishot mods (e.g. Barrel Diffusion), element damage mods (e.g. Deep Freeze), crit chance and crit damage mods (e.g. Pistol Gambit and Target Cracker) can affect the performance of Peacemaker as well.
• Regulators still gain full mod performance even when giving your Secondary to a Rescue/Sortie-Defense target, but not during a non-secondary 'Weapon-Specific'-Only Sortie Mission.

What amuse me is that even DE do what you request, it won't change a thing, there will be another tool to take the place, your idea is at best incomplete and unfair, but you are not the 1st one to do this and won't be the last.

Fortunatly ignorance can be cured, I wonder if you have the will to learn or if your pride won't allow you ?

While I definitely disagree with whoistimjones, you're missing his point in how you address it.  He's talking about gameplay interactivity, how its actually used in function (which I disagree with), as opposed to talking about it on a mechanical level and what contributes to it and how you build it.

Do I want his suggestions? Not really.  Your last statement is an utterly ineffective one that only serves to insult people, drive people away, and devalue your previous points.  Nobody cares what you have to say whether its reasonable or not when you come across as condescending, patronizing, or high and mighty.  It is just poor communication that benefits neither you nor your audience.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

1: Reported. If all you can do is spew insults, keep quiet.

2: All that is post rework, something not posted, just a bunch of stuff I already know, which is why using wiki(a user manipulative site) as a source is a joke. 

3: How exactly does any of tht change the fact that her ult is just a press and forget? She activates her 4 and requires no more player input. Even more so with the augment.

As far as 2 goes, calling the warframe wiki a joke is kind of a joke itself.  It has more concrete information than in-game in WF or DE has ever directly revealed itself. It is really one of the only comprehensive sources of info on WF.

The augment is ok, but its no worse than a ton of other things (confusion/rad procs, gara cc, vauban cc, inaros or valk or banshee finisher cc, etc).  Her ult requires movement, and she requires movement to stay alive if she is facing a challenging situation.  An Ember that does not move is a dead Ember, whatever level she is at that things start to get serious and actually threatening.  Wof will help, but it will not save her.

[Soketsu]

Il y a 1 heure, Terrornaut a dit :

While I definitely disagree with whoistimjones, you're missing his point in how you address it.  He's talking about gameplay interactivity, how its actually used in function (which I disagree with), as opposed to talking about it on a mechanical level and what contributes to it and how you build it.

Do I want his suggestions? Not really.  Your last statement is an utterly ineffective one that only serves to insult people, drive people away, and devalue your previous points.  Nobody cares what you have to say whether its reasonable or not when you come across as condescending, patronizing, or high and mighty.  It is just poor communication that benefits neither you nor your audience.

As far as 2 goes, calling the warframe wiki a joke is kind of a joke itself.  It has more concrete information than in-game in WF or DE has ever directly revealed itself. It is really one of the only comprehensive sources of info on WF.

The augment is ok, but its no worse than a ton of other things (confusion/rad procs, gara cc, vauban cc, inaros or valk or banshee finisher cc, etc).  Her ult requires movement, and she requires movement to stay alive if she is facing a challenging situation.  An Ember that does not move is a dead Ember, whatever level she is at that things start to get serious and actually threatening.  Wof will help, but it will not save her.

In this case how many warframe demand any real effort to a player in order to be efficient in the fight ?

No matter the state of ember tommorow, players will "discover" a way to clean content in most efficient way and this will continue for a long time.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Soketsu

[Terrornaut]

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

In this case how many warframe demand any real effort to a player in order to be efficient in the fight ?

No matter the state of ember tommorow, players will "discover" a way to clean content in most efficient way and this will continue for a long time.

I have a habit of picking unpopular high effort/questionable reward characters in games since the inception, but usually end up proving devs often have more of a clue than people think with their designs.  (but not always)  It is fun to be effective and efficient though.  Nobody really likes feeling useless or discarding all of their capabilities...for the most part.

That's the toughness of design for many games. How do you make the player feel like a badass and master elements they start out dealing with, but still provide a challenge as they make significant rises in power?  Plenty of games do it.  Warframe does it well until a point, and then holds back from offering a challenge in various ways as you rise towards the top scale of things.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Terrornaut

[Eoptap]

Reding this most ate asking for a nerf. WOF sucks as the difficulty goes up. People this is PVE not PVP. Rework let's take about rework. A proper rework would be to have accelerant scale allot better. WOF should still work like it dose but as the levels get higher and the damage decreases have it focused more on the knocking down then DMG. It is a cc DMG ability. I use it for cc more than the DMG. I would like to see both to function better not worse as I go in to go PVE and I want the arsinal of the entire team to work well as long as possible. I loved rink stomp for the cc and I could kill enemies when the rink in the party stomped and I attacked the ene while he fell to the ground. Stomp got nurfed then it was less effective. Instead of "make it weak so I can feel better" how about how can we make the abilities work better with the rest of the team. When I use WOF I either stay back until it gets difficult enough so the team needs to stay together or do not turn it in until the knock down is needed to survive. I have to keep moving and shooting. I have the range as small as I can make it and still be efficient. 

[(PSN)atpbx]

Nerf Ember AGAIN?

She was butchered once already to the point of being worthless, they bring her back up to a reasonable level and there are people asking for her to be destroyed again?

 

Damn nublets.

[(PSN)KnowLedge]

Quick! Run! I hear string instruments playing the "whine-o de weenie"...😂

 

Ember 4th is only good up until about lvl 60 or so....

Edited January 16, 2018 by (PS4)KnowLedge