Grakata: What's The Point?

[Riddle78]

I've heard high praises get sung about the Grakata,after I got it's blueprint from a login reward. Highest grossing DPS weapon in the game,people said. Stack crits and win the universe,they said. Slap on armour pen and you're a god among men,they said.

 

They were all liars and fools.

 

My first issue with it is the base damage: Nine damage per bullet. With a 7.5% chance for a 200% crit. For a full auto weapon,those crit stats are interesting...Until you stop and realize: That's an EIGHTEEN damage crit. Then comes the critical damage itself. It's a percentage buff. By their very nature,a percentage buff will only serve a large value. What's 200% of 9? 18. While you'll be dealing out crits very often,the amount of damage they'll deal will be negligible to all enemies,and might as well heal Grineer,Ancients,and Moas/Ospreys,thanks to armour. Even with a Piercing Strike mod,your penetration will never be total,and you'll be throwing so many bullets at a single target,you might as well be pelting them with the magazine itself. You'll probably inflict more trauma that way,to boot.

 

And now for my personal experience. I have a level 30 Grakata. Not Supercharged,sine I only found ONE potato,ever,and I'm saving it for the Ogris when I finally hit Rank Six to build it,but I stacked the Grakata for crits,reserve ammo,and armour pen. And after dumping my ENTIRE ammo pool into an Ancient Healer,all on his lonesome,he was still standing.

 

If I'm wielding the highest DPS weapon in the game,how is he still standing? At the end of the day,the Grakata is just so weak it might as well not exist. It eats it's ammo alive,it deals nearly no damage at all,and it sounds and looks lame to boot.

 

My Neurodes were ill spent. Objectively,the weapon isn't even worthy of being a doorstop. Subjectively,I'd rather go without a primary weapon if it was my only choice.

[IcarusNine]

Highest grossing DPS weapon in the game,people said.

 

Um, yeah... When they thought it had 15% chance to crit and ignored the existence of the Gorgon (and Afuris... and later the Supra and Twin Vipers).

 

Sorry about that.

[Nantlais]

Well if i'm not mistaken 200% of 9 is not 18 but rather 27, wuite a respectable amount of BASE damage. It definately needs a buff, if it crits out at 27 i may as well stick with my dera or even spectra over this

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Umm.. 2*9=18... 3*9=27

It crits for 18.

Also, yes, it sucks. I'd like to see a buff to just about every stat, giving it super high DPS at the cost of ammo efficiency, accuracy, and lower sustained DPS

[Retro050]

to nantlais: BTW 200% is 18 damage. it's not 100% + 200%, its simply plain 200%.

 

 

I totaly agree with this post, the grataka is the worst weapon in the game for the reasons you mentioned above. Also, i think the kraken also needs a buff, since the recoil on the second shot is impossibly high (making it useless at longer ranges), and the reload speed and firing speed are very low. furthermore, if you aim for the head with this gun, the second shot is gonna miss 100% sure due to the recoil of the second shot. Since headshots deal 200% damage and you miss 1 bullet with it, you might aswell shoot in the body. I know you can shoot a bit below the head so that the second shot scores an headshot, but to do that you need to be at close range, and you might aswell melee youre opponent at that range (melee weapons deal WAY more dps than the kraken). Please devloppers, altough some people are gonna disagree with what i wrote, buff this peashooter.

[Archistopheles]

Did you invest 6 Forma for it?

 

No? Well...

[AfroGamerNinja]

Did you invest 6 Forma for it?

 

No? Well...

 

Which probably shows how bad it is. If you need 6 Forma to make that gun viable, then you should start to reconsider your choice of primaries.

Edited July 30, 2013 by AfroGamerNinja

[Riddle78]

Did you invest 6 Forma for it?

 

No? Well...

All the Forma does is add/modify a polarity slot,which in turn halves the cost of all matching mods in that slot,while increasing the cost of others. And since every single mod in the game only offers a percentage boost,the polarities will be worthless,as the low base stats of the Grakata will diminish the gains of high level mods,and completely negate the gains of low level ones. Why waste the forma on such a weapon when it can be invested in the construction of a lab,or the construction of something like the Ogris or Lanka?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Fully forma'd, the grakata actually does have good and comparable DPS. The problem is that for the vast majority of play time, it has low DPS and always has terrible ammo economy.

[AfroGamerNinja]

Fully forma'd, the grakata actually does have good and comparable DPS. The problem is that for the vast majority of play time, it has low DPS and always has terrible ammo economy.

Which is the exact problem.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Which is the exact problem.

that's why I said "the problem is..."

[Riddle78]

So it's not just me,then. The Grakata is,objectively,a poor weapon.

 

In my experience with the weapon,it eats it's ammo too fast,and it deals FAR too little damage. With the crit stats,it's obviously been designed for landing a stupid number of crits in a short period of time. Now the question becomes "How can we make it viable without beating out every other gun?".

 

My recommendation is increase the base damage while reducing the rate of fire. The current rate of fire is about 1,200 rd/min. That's 20 rd/sec. Three seconds to dump a whole mag,as it stands. I'd say reduce that to 900 rd/min,or 15 rd/sec,and increase the damage to,say,12 or 15? That way,you have something that can kill a Corpus Crewman with a reasonable number of bullets,while still mandating the sue of mods like Piercing Hit to do anything to practically anything else,and makes the crits more rewarding when they happen. Adding innate armour ignore/partial pen is just going to break it,no matter how much we change the other stats in either direction.

 

Thoughts?

[AfroGamerNinja]

So it's not just me,then. The Grakata is,objectively,a poor weapon.

 

In my experience with the weapon,it eats it's ammo too fast,and it deals FAR too little damage. With the crit stats,it's obviously been designed for landing a stupid number of crits in a short period of time. Now the question becomes "How can we make it viable without beating out every other gun?".

 

My recommendation is increase the base damage while reducing the rate of fire. The current rate of fire is about 1,200 rd/min. That's 20 rd/sec. Three seconds to dump a whole mag,as it stands. I'd say reduce that to 900 rd/min,or 15 rd/sec,and increase the damage to,say,12 or 15? That way,you have something that can kill a Corpus Crewman with a reasonable number of bullets,while still mandating the sue of mods like Piercing Hit to do anything to practically anything else,and makes the crits more rewarding when they happen. Adding innate armour ignore/partial pen is just going to break it,no matter how much we change the other stats in either direction.

 

Thoughts?

 

After all, the bullets are meant to be low impact on this thing, so I doubt making it armor ignoring/piercing would make sense.

[LazyKnight]

Fully forma'd, the grakata actually does have good and comparable DPS. The problem is that for the vast majority of play time, it has low DPS and always has terrible ammo economy.

I would like to see them get rid of the critical on the grakata and give it a decent base 14-17 so it can at least be useable with less than 5 forma.

 

So it's not just me,then. The Grakata is,objectively,a poor weapon.

 

The only gun that I would rank as worse than grakata it in the rifle family with the exact same mod quality and forma amount is a MK1-Braton. It just isn't a decent weapon unless you overcompensate for it terrible stats. It just needs too many mod slots to get the critical to compensate for its terrible base.

Edited July 31, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Riddle78]

But to remove the crits turns it into just another assault rifle with nothing fancy. The Grakata seems to have been introduced to give the automatic class of weapons some texture and flavour. Take away the crits,and you have a reskinned Braton. And that's just silly. Why have two versions of the same weapon? Keep the crits,it keeps it's identity as a gambler's machine gun,and thus preserve the texture and variety of the primary weapons arsenal.

[IcarusNine]

Fully forma'd, the grakata actually does have good and comparable DPS. The problem is that for the vast majority of play time, it has low DPS and always has terrible ammo economy.

 

You say that as if no other weapon can also be fully forma'd and become better still.

[LazyKnight]

But to remove the crits turns it into just another assault rifle with nothing fancy. The Grakata seems to have been introduced to give the automatic class of weapons some texture and flavour. Take away the crits,and you have a reskinned Braton. And that's just silly. Why have two versions of the same weapon? Keep the crits,it keeps it's identity as a gambler's machine gun,and thus preserve the texture and variety of the primary weapons arsenal.

I have no idea why they made grakata in the first place when it came out there was no forma and it couldn't get enough mod points. It is a gun that just doesn't fit the game and hasn't been good since day 1.

[Riddle78]

We've already beaten that horse to death,LazyKnight. We have come to the conclusion that,yes,the Grakata is a steaming pile of feces in it's current state. But it has potential. Amazing potential. Think of it not how it is now,but what it CAN be,should the developers agree. Less bullets per second,more damage per bullet,and you have a weapon that doesn't starve itself as fast,and deals enough damage to be used outside of Mercury's Terminus.

[LazyKnight]

We've already beaten that horse to death,LazyKnight. We have come to the conclusion that,yes,the Grakata is a steaming pile of feces in it's current state. But it has potential. Amazing potential. Think of it not how it is now,but what it CAN be,should the developers agree. Less bullets per second,more damage per bullet,and you have a weapon that doesn't starve itself as fast,and deals enough damage to be used outside of Mercury's Terminus.

When I had grakata(sold it before U9) it reminded me of the old 80s cartoon "Gi Joe"  and their weapons.The grakata definitely has an interesting personality it wouldn't hurt it to have higher base lower speed or anything that makes the gun more ammo efficient.

Edited July 31, 2013 by LazyKnight

[shoryukensama]

i dont see a problem with this weapon specially when being shot at by the grineers and their unlimited ammo which they never reload btw. on the other using this as a teeno weapon , might as well dont.

[Kaidinah]

It should have something like a 20% base crit I think. Compared to the high end rifles, I doubt that would even make it overpowered.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

There's nothing wrong with its rate being too high. Honestly, I'd buff the rate to 25 and the damage to 12.5. Then up crit chance to 15% and crit damage to 225%. The resulting weapon has super high burst DPS decent sustained DPS and thus compensated for its low ammo economy by being strong in other regards.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Saenol]

My recommendation is increase the base damage while reducing the rate of fire.

So you want to make it a Braton reskin?

Rate of fire is Grakata's main thing. Reduce it and may as well just invent a new weapon.

Personally, I'd just increase the critical multiplier to 300%.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Saenol

[Riddle78]

There's nothing wrong with its rate being too high. Honestly, I'd buff the rate to 25 and the damage to 12.5. Then up crit chance to 15% and crit damage to 225%. The resulting weapon has super high burst DPS decent sustained DPS and thus compensated for its low ammo economy by being strong in other regards.

I never really thought about it in the sense of just going nuts with the gambler's aspect of the weapon. This way,it incentiveizes the proper selection of a sidearm and melee weapon,as ammo sustainability will be an issue,even with the new Ammo Mutator mods. You,sir,have my respect. You actually think.

[Saenol]

There's nothing wrong with its rate being too high. Honestly, I'd buff the rate to 25 and the damage to 12.5. Then up crit chance to 15% and crit damage to 225%. The resulting weapon has super high burst DPS decent sustained DPS and thus compensated for its low ammo economy by being strong in other regards.

 

Complete overkill, IMO.

 

Piles of ammo boxes or the new event mods can almost completely negate the ammo consumption issue, which would leave you, with these changes, a weapon that outclasses pretty much any other bullet based, non-sniper.