Solution To Restore Weapon/warframe Power Balance

[JamesSergon]

Well.  I think most will agree that there is currently a big issue concerning the combined uses of formas and orokin catalyst/reactor.  You can go from 30 total points to the equivalent of 120 points (2 x 30 with catalyst/reactor, and half the cost for each polarity so 2 x 60 = 120).  It is to a point where anyone can potato and forma any weapons then put any mod he wants without even caring about mod costs.  So you can basically overpower any weapons with max rank mods.  There are about no reason to put something else then maxed out  +damage%, +multishot%, +armor piercing%, +fire speed%, + some elemental or critical chance/damage %, as there is no compromise to do so.

 

This issue belongs to the powercreep problem and is in part discussed and very well explained here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/88684-the-needed-overhaul-that-will-never-happen/#entry983792

 

And here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/87889-the-difficulty-balance-and-when-less-is-more/

 

I'm proposing as a solution pretty simple and effective modifications to the catalyst/reactor system and mod level up costs to restore the power balance.  It goes as follow:

 

-  Mods have a lower "regular" maximum rank (let's say about half as actually: instead of rank 5, it could be rank 2; it could depend of a particular mod also);

 

-  BUT mods can be overclocked beyond maximum rank up to the actual maximum rank the same way ranks are normally gained with fusion (so a mod could be considered overclocked at rank 3, 4 and 5);

 

- Every additional overclocked mod rank requires 1 additional cumulative point cost;

 

- Overclocked mods can ONLY be installed on a potatoed weapon/warframe: in fact, the only purpose of orokin catalyst/reactor would be to allow Overclocked mods to be used on them (total points would STAY 30, not double to60).

 

- Forma/polarity system would stay the same.

 

EXAMPLE, for Serration and Split chamber:

 

           Serration                      Split chamber

          ************                      *****************

Rank  Cost    Effect                Cost     Effect

------   ------   --------                ------    -----------

0           4      +15% dam.          10      +15% multishot

1           5      +30% dam.          11      +30% multishot

2           6      +45% dam.          12      +45% multishot

========================================= (overclocking: Orokin catalyst required in order to equip)

3           8      +60% dam.          14      +60% multishot

4           11    +75% dam.          17      +75% multishot

5           15    +90% dam.          21      +90% multishot

 

 

Observations:

-----------------

 

- Both formas and reactors/catalysts would still be very useful;

 

- More casual players with limited time to play could still be "competitive" in terms of what their weapon build bring to a team.  In fact, equipping a weapon or a warframe with only regular ranked (no overclocked) mods would give the best possible total bonus gain without requiring fully formating and results in a more versatile/balanced weapon in general situations;

 

- More experimented/skilled/dedicated players could choose to use some overclocked mods to create specialize builds that would be better in specific situation that fit with their playstyle.  Even with 8 polarity slots, they would never be able to put more than about 3 damaged-oriented fully overclocked mods (just Serration + Split chamber would consume 36 points on an overall potential of 60 points); and that would be done at the expense of not being able to have much more other bonuses of any kind.

 

- Another positive consequence is that players would also want to keep many mods of the same at different stages of fusion.  It would stimulate mod usefulness throughout the game.

 

I'm opened to discussion and constructive criticism about that idea :)!

Edited July 31, 2013 by JamesSergon

[Silraed]

Unless they started handing out regular potatoes this would lean towards P2W, because even when there is no direct competition it is still unfair for that player to have such a huge advantage and being carried through a mission kills any sense of fun.

[ChaoticVice777]

In case this is off-topic...

 

Fixing the armor scaling takes a higher priority since it's the main reason why armor ignoring damage are so powerful, creating a ridiculous imbalance between the viability of weapons throughout game progression. By "nerfing" armor scaling, you are reverse-buffing everything else (armor ignoring damage is buffed less), so it creates higher set of balance between weapons.

 

On-topic (Correct me if I'm wrong though):

 

8+ Formas and a supercharge onto a weapon/Warframe requires a lot of dedication. Creating your system would be an idea to balance the weaponry, but you're also going to nerf damage done to the enemy. In other words, you're balancing everything out by making all the Warframes and weapons perform worse. 

[JamesSergon]

Unless they started handing out regular potatoes this would lean towards P2W, because even when there is no direct competition it is still unfair for that player to have such a huge advantage and being carried through a mission kills any sense of fun.

 

On the contrary.  Advanced builds containing overclocked mods would have less bonus but be more powerful in the correct hands and situation. Knowledge of how and when to use them would required experience and experimentation with the game.  Still, people with more basic builds or less experienced would not automatically be a burden for advanced players in public games.  And casual players would be able to contribute and not feel like a burden.

[Silraed]

On the contrary.  Advanced builds containing overclocked mods would have less bonus but be more powerful in the correct hands and situation. Knowledge of how and when to use them would required experience and experimentation with the game.  Still, people with more basic builds or less experienced would not automatically be a burden for advanced players in public games.  And casual players would be able to contribute and not feel like a burden.

It might look like that on paper, or computer screen in this case, but it would most likely not transfer into actual gameplay like that.

[JamesSergon]

In case this is off-topic...

 

Fixing the armor scaling takes a higher priority since it's the main reason why armor ignoring damage are so powerful, creating a ridiculous imbalance between the viability of weapons throughout game progression. By "nerfing" armor scaling, you are reverse-buffing everything else (armor ignoring damage is buffed less), so it creates higher set of balance between weapons.

 

On-topic (Correct me if I'm wrong though):

 

8+ Formas and a supercharge onto a weapon/Warframe requires a lot of dedication. Creating your system would be an idea to balance the weaponry, but you're also going to nerf damage done to the enemy. In other words, you're balancing everything out by making all the Warframes and weapons perform worse. 

 

1) Bullet sponge and armor ignoring weapons are a parallel and very big issue that breaks balance between many weapons, i agree.  It also has to be adress very soon.

 

2) Even if you reverse buff armor ignoring, it doesn't change the powercreep issue concerning mods/formas/potatos.  And % bonus in my system can be adjusted to reflect other gameplay mechanisms adjustments, if you want to keep to maximum DPS intact and only debuff armor ignoring.

[Tsukinoki]

@Silraed

Especially when no one would really go for the "specialised" builds that this person seems to want. And cutting mod power in half would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the people without a potato, and cutting the points available in half would drastically reduce the weapon power in the long run.

Overall this system would weaken everyone for no visible gain.

[JamesSergon]

@Silraed

Especially when no one would really go for the "specialised" builds that this person seems to want. And cutting mod power in half would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the people without a potato, and cutting the points available in half would drastically reduce the weapon power in the long run.

Overall this system would weaken everyone for no visible gain.

 

It would not reduce the effectiveness of the people without a potato.  They would have more different mods with average bonus gains, instead of less but more powerful mods -> less versatility.  Forma would still allow to boost your weapons, being potatoed or not, but above 2 or 3 formas, it would only benefits if you are planning to use many overclocked mods.

 

And as I said to the other guy, cutting points available in half is not a problem itself, it doesn't prevent to boost a bit the actual bonus % for each rank gained if required to balance things out.

Edited July 31, 2013 by JamesSergon

[JamesSergon]

I think some of you are missing the point of the system.  Mod point cost and bonuses, as well as armor ignoring principles can be balanced out along with such a system.  The problem right now is the direct relation between more forma/catalyst -> more inherent power in all situation (no skill require).  It is SO a bad pathway that will discourage the casual players base on the long term.

 

You should watch the video about powercreep that is in the link at the top. 

Edited July 31, 2013 by JamesSergon