Mak_Gohae Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 They are probably removing it because of space. Replacing missions is going to have a smaller hit on the game dealing with space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The problem is that players rush through content because they don't feel like it's worth taking their time. The correct response to that problem is not, "let's remove a mission type that's easy to rush in an effort to force players to slow down" -- rather, the correct response is to change the content to be more rewarding to a non-rushing playstyle. Sure litlir, but isn't retooling a bad mission type that doesn't engage the player (i.e. Raid, where rushing is simply more efficient/fun comparatively) to replace it with something that IS engaging exactly in line with what you are suggesting they do? Not trying to be difficult; pointing out that your line of logic, which I agree with, seems in line with this decision overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 It's disappointing that they're just removing content because it's unpopular instead of trying to find out ways to make it better. Defenseframe: Ninjas defense free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Sure litlir, but isn't retooling a bad mission type that doesn't engage the player (i.e. Raid, where rushing is simply more efficient/fun comparatively) to replace it with something that IS engaging exactly in line with what you are suggesting they do? Not trying to be difficult; pointing out that your line of logic, which I agree with, seems in line with this decision overall. I believe he's more referring to the fact that they should rework "raid" rather than completely remove it and replace it with survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP04 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 keep raid, screw spy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I believe he's more referring to the fact that they should rework "raid" rather than completely remove it and replace it with survival. Fair enough, but if Capture and raid are functionally identical (i.e. one I raid a crew member and 'digitize' the poor sod, the other I capture a piece of hardware) then let's make the Raid/Capture mission vary the target from human to object to give that mission more variance and recognize they ARE the same mission. Make the Capture target flee/fight back more while the Raid object is actively defended (as should be the Reactor Core, to be honest... Seriously wondering why there are not more static defenses in those rooms; go go gadget turrets). If Capture and Raid are harmonized, so that mission type gets more variance and robustness with improvements and we get a new mission type (which I infer is the approach being taken) then I still believe this is in line with he was asking for overall. I'm operating on a bit of good faith here from what I know thus far (we know very little detail about the rework plan) but based on what has been said, this seems sensible. I find Raid as a standalone hard to defend. Raid/Capture being improved as a 'same thing' case, makes a lot of sense to me and keeps things more interesting at point of play. I'm deep in opinion country on this of course as there just are not a lot of facts to work with, mostly supposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerikin Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Removing the best type of missing for actually getting resources, not cool. So long m-prime. Raids are the best place by far for resource farming in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Fair enough, but if Capture and raid are functionally identical (i.e. one I raid a crew member and 'digitize' the poor sod, the other I capture a piece of hardware) then let's make the Raid/Capture mission vary the target from human to object to give that mission more variance and recognize they ARE the same mission. Make the Capture target flee/fight back more while the Raid object is actively defended (as should be the Reactor Core, to be honest... Seriously wondering why there are not more static defenses in those rooms; go go gadget turrets). If Capture and Raid are harmonized, so that mission type gets more variance and robustness with improvements and we get a new mission type (which I infer is the approach being taken) then I still believe this is in line with he was asking for overall. I'm operating on a bit of good faith here from what I know thus far (we know very little detail about the rework plan) but based on what has been said, this seems sensible. I find Raid as a standalone hard to defend. Raid/Capture being improved as a 'same thing' case, makes a lot of sense to me and keeps things more interesting at point of play. I'm deep in opinion country on this of course as there just are not a lot of facts to work with, mostly supposition. Capture and Raid weren't really the same outside of running to an objective. And if that's the issue, how are survival and defense not the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofiel Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 @(*()$ signed you goddamn S#&$eater, what the S#&$ is this!? Raid was easily the best mission for newer players due it's simplicity and "go to A then leave" layout! You're just taking away something that gave people mods as rewards to try to force them to buy mod packs! STOP THIS S#&$ @(&*@#$#! Seriously this is so true. There's absolutely no reason to remove Raid, it is my favorite mission type and the only reason so few people play it is because DE won't get off their &#! and make it more worthwhile. Drops are limited in normal missions so if people are farming materials they will fight bosses repeatedly. If they need XP? They'll run either defense or mobile defense, and to farm keys it's "faster" to run a defense to wave 5 repeatedly and hope you get one. Instead of REMOVING raid type missions for really no good reason. (Seriously Deception, Rescue and Spy missions are soooo much worse.) you could easily make them MORE WORTHWHILE instead. I've already said it before but I'll say it again, remove/nerf things and you'll anger your players. Make it better instead or more worthwhile and you have a great system going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Capture and Raid weren't really the same outside of running to an objective. And if that's the issue, how are survival and defense not the same thing? Capture and Raid are functionally identical and only consisted of running to the objective and hitting X. The Capture target has never been tough/fast/cagey enough to evade capture in any match I've ever played, so having to hit X twice for Raid and having to shoot the Capture target before sucking him into my hand I have trouble with classifying as meaningfully distinct for game play. Not sure why you feel they are distinct constructs? I see no structural difference in terms of how we play them. As for Survival versus Defense? I honestly have no idea. As I said, we're in supposition land because we don't know anything about Survival other than it's called 'Survival'. For all we know it's a time trial from start to finish, like nightmare, evading significantly dangerous enemies that are following us as we move through the ship, as opposed to holding a position. Maybe holding position is especially fatal. Maybe you cannot be revived so it's about the last man standing? It's a timed mission where we survive. Literally, all we know for the parameters. :) Without more to go on here, impossible to know where they are the same or different, but the name sure implies similarity, granted. Edited July 31, 2013 by Drusus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishworshipper Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 You would if you were WATCHING THE LIVESTREAM! You should feel ashamed for not watching the livestream! Shame on you! I apologise if you were joking.... but some of us have lives, and have to be places at 10 in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Bye bye Desdemona. I guess I won't be raiding Uranus for plastids anymore :C I guess there's still exterminates on Saturn for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychShaman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I really enjoy collecting that artifact, it's one of my favorite mission types. Capture is more annoying with that guy screaming. Please keep Raid missions DE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 have to be places at 10 in the morning. Like the forums? Because I started this thread pretty much during the livestream, and I think it was still going when they posted. If it makes you feel any better, I was poking fun at the fact that the person was asking why Raid missions were in danger, when they could have been on the livestream moments earlier and had their question answered. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goku_GT Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah raid are pretty fun, I think they should keep all missions. I do see where they would think to get rid of raid. I've played too many that you can't farm cause ppl are Running them. But I'd get rid of spy myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 inb4 "This just got interesting. Survive for 7 minutes until the extraction team arrives" after you release the hostage from his cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk0m Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 "We know people hate escort missions, so we are keeping Rescue and taking out Raid." DE logic. You clearly didn't watch the live stream either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishworshipper Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Like the forums? Because I started this thread pretty much during the livestream, and I think it was still going when they posted. If it makes you feel any better, I was poking fun at the fact that the person was asking why Raid missions were in danger, when they could have been on the livestream moments earlier and had their question answered. :) Ah, I didn't look at the time of the post. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenOculus Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Please keep raid, and if you must remove a game type, let it be rescue missions. As I see it, rescue missions are a pain because they are one of the few missions where you can potentially fail due to buggy ally AI. I've had many a mission fail because the hostage got stuck on an obstacle or ran the wrong way into a horde of enemies. I've never heard any complaints about raid missions the way I have from rescue missions. Please rethink this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTrick Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Keep raid, Remove spy or rescue seriously i only play spy or rescue because i HAVE to :/ but i like raid, raid is actualy kinda fun especialy to speed run as volt Its volts ONE good use :/ >.> this is all because of people complaining about rushers, raid is made for rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelicDivum Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Raid is probably my 3rd most played mission due to farming, while rescue and spy I try and avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukedu_ Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 You clearly didn't watch the live stream either... Rescue is being kept, but changed. The changes aren't revealed yet, so I can't speak if it'll be much better or not. And yet, another escort mission is being added. Don't see what I said wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariarch Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 SAVE RAID! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayfigure Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Signed +1 The Dev team here have made some great decisions in this game, and I fully support their choices......usually. However, I think Raid should definitely stay, even if its given over to either the early game or given more incentive to stealth it as the 'stealth missions.' Though it is similar to capture, a few mechanics changes to the mission type could still have it keep it's identity without getting rid of it for its sexier cousin. You guys have done a great job, DE, and if you really think you need to get rid of Raid, then I can get behind it, I guess. But if given a choice, I'd rather see it stay. There we go, my 0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) 3. PLEASE KEEP THE RAID MISSIONS. Re-work them by all means but please don't just throw more "waves of enemies" missions at the expense of to raid missions. Edited July 31, 2013 by Agent_of_Change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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