Welcome To Defenseframe...

[Tempera]

However my point is how this looks from the outside and how its in my opinion a failure of both PR and marketing.

I am absolutely unsure as to how your point related to what you were quoting, then.

[LordSebastian]

Why are people always expecting Warframe to be a totally different game? I play this to fight hordes of enemies and unleash incredible powers when overwhelmed. That is the game Warframe is. It's like expecting Dynasty Warrior to adopt Soul Calibur's fighting system.

And thats the main problem of Warframe. This game must be serious, not like press X to win.

DE must make more varieties with gamemodes. and gosh, there bazzilions of ideas on this forum that just needs to be realised. no need of thinking, just balance the player's idea and do it. Thats how's League of Legends does, when creating new champion.

 

And how's particular gameday of average player - If there's no need to farm resources - ED until recieveing Void Key - Void - Repeat.

Most easly affinity farm - ED\Void

Most popular weapons - Dropped from Void\Clan

Most usefull farm of recources - specific missions like Ariel \ M Prime etc.

60-70% of ALL missions are played just for Alerts OR for opening planet for same alerts\Nightmare mod. Mostly they are one-off missions.

Edited August 6, 2013 by LordSebastian

[Eversor]

I fully support your concern Volt_Cruelerz. We both started the game when it was closed beta just when Ember´s visual design got reworked. So many things have changed since then. We both have seen total overhauls and cool additions... my god, do you remember when we could stack multishot to even 400% in the old spec trees?

 

I bring this to the table to support the fact that DE listens, they care about his baby, i´ve seen it with my own eyes. I am pretty sure they know that THIS whole thread is summing up the most lethal threat to Warframe. The skill needed for the high level content is nothing more than a "checkwall", when you have maxed some of the "popular" mods, you have nothing else to do than force yourself to destroy uberbulletsponges only to see how high you can manage ED or T3D. And this is not "endgame"

 

The level rise (and the armor scaling system inherently) makes most weapons and frames totally worthless, destroying variety and creating a hardcoded metagame which will be hard to get rid off without "vocal" consequences. And again, of course, this is not "difficulty" just an artifical extension of the game content ( im almost sure we share the hypothesis that this has been done to give developers time to work on these flaws).

 

In my mind, Nightmare is not the only mode which must follow the path of mechanical alterations of game´s difficulty. Whole game needs it.

 

I hope DE read your masterpiece of feedback. Kudos mate.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Eversor

[Cabadath5]

Defenseframe?I thought it was called Rushframe.

[litlit]

Defenseframe?I thought it was called Rushframe.

Players rush through missions to get back to grinding defense.

[Hitomo]

Hopefully you made it through all that rambling, but I hope it ultimately got the point across: the game does not reward skill.  It must shift away from numerical difficulty towards mechanical as mechanical more easily rewards skill.  With such a change, ED may be toppled as the most-played gametype and thus, frames may be able to be balanced around things other than how best to deal with a level 1000 Ancient.  I know mechanical difficulty is more difficult to add than numerical, but it must become the focus of the developers.  It is worth it though.  Rewarding skill gives players a reason to continue play, and by shifting away from numerical difficulty, we can finally reasonably balance around something other than defensive missions.

 

TL;DR: read above paragraph.

 

 

you should play more other F2P games ... and you would notice the pattern

 

dont farm mats, buy the damn stuff with platinum, serously the game s much more fun this way and will not last for ever

[Madotsuki]

I wish DE would read threads like this more often.

Right now Warframe is just going in a downward spiral into boredom. It's not just because Defense has become the be-all-end-all of Warframe. Right now almost all difficulty in this game is completely gear-based, long as you have enough time to waste on farming stuff to max mods or get the best gear almost any content is a cakewalk. And then all the hardcores go "I FORMAED MY POTATOED ACRID 8 TIMES! WHY IS GAME EASY??!! TOO EASY!!! MAKE HARDER!!!!", and DE just raises all the sodding planet levels and makes the game even harder, but only numerically, so that solo'ers and people without the LEET gear is locked out from more content, yet the game is still as much of a cakewalk as before for co-opers and hardcores with all the maxed gear. It's been said before that the game pre-U9 was perfectly balanced for solo play, which was why co-op felt too easy. If DE had listened to the right people, they would've known that introducing mission level scaling to player number would have been a much better option, as that would have made the game as accessible as before for solo'ers and non-hardcores, but wouldn't be a cakewalk for all the co-op players, who were essentially playing missions balanced for one player with 4 players and thus 4 times the firepower.

But wait, there's more! Powercreep is becoming an increasingly serious problem in the game. There has always been some gear that were clearly superior to others, and with the addition of the Prime weapons that's becoming even more clear. Why is powercreep bad? Just watch this:

And then there's the fact that a vast majority of the weapons are completely generic and uninteresting, with only a few exceptions such as the Glaive/Kestrel or the lab weapons.

Hell, the gameplay itself is still boring. Most of the enemies are still generic and uninteresting, either relying on sponginess or stunlock to present any kind of difficulty. Why does the Grineer Commander do nothing but switch teleport randomly instead of actually commanding their troops and raising their AI? Where's the Corpus elite snipers who can cloak and throw flashbangs? Where's the flying Infested units that toss thorns from afar?

And then there's the fact that the community keeps getting increasingly toxic and self-contradictive ever since the game got "big". Almost every time I look at the forum, most of the threads are "We're too powerful, give us BB guns instead" or "RUSHARS/DEFENS HEREOS RUININ MAH GAEMPLY EXPREINCE", or something about pvp or the microtransaction system. And then the flames begin in the replies section. Every time a good thread that has actually fresh and constructive suggestions or ones that point out major flaws in the game show up, it gets ignored and soon fades into oblivion, especially those that have wall-of-texts to explain their points in detail, because the average internet user has less attention span than a puppy. Just look at the whole "Nova is OP?" controversy right now. Every time someone suggests a tweak to Molecular Prime, if it doesn't involve insta-nuking an entire defense wave, everyone starts crying that that will ruin Nova and that all frames should have that same level of "press 4 to win" power instead. AND THEN these people complain that the game is too ez mode and the game should be more difficult.

I used to have a lot of hope for this game. I thought it had a ton of potential, and that with the proper nurturing, Warframe could be one of the best f2p shooters in history. Yet with almost every update, i find myself having less and less expectations for the future of Warframe. Look at Update 9, the "polishing" update. Yeah, what did they polish? Nothing but one boss fight and the UI. And the lore i guess. They even ruined the potential credit sink that would have been purchasable resources by making them plat-only instead. And of course after several updates, Nightmare Mode is STILL not a toggle-able option. I've had 450+ hours in this game, I've spent many hours writing concept threads about weapons/enemies/bosses, I've even drawn bloody fanart for the game, but nowadays I just can't find the motivation to play the game anymore. I hope DE can change that soon.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Madotsuki

[rksk16it]

Pffft. You really think that the Design Council influences anything outside of Nova?

 

<snip>

 

Well, I guess that's sort of dictating the future of the game. If by dictating the future of the game you really mean giving our opinions on a few things to the devs before it's released, and releasing ideas about one Warframe.

 

Amusing, but true. :P

 

Also, I would like to add, that when I bought my master founder pack and first visited that forum section I saw some early screenshots of few things. I was like "okay...".

 

Then out of curiousity, I went to google images and entered the topic name... and whoa, it shown me more than what I found on that forum :P (or maybe I didnt bother to look carefuly, I just skimmed that part of forum)

[Volt_Cruelerz]

@Tempera

That's actually a very good example of elements that could enhance gameplay while retaining the game's core mechanics. Unfornately not everyone shares the same wisdom and hopes for, no, demands something far from being realistic.

 

@Volt_Cruelerz

Just for the record, I have absolutely no trouble with the game's present difficulty, either in ED maps, Void runs, or even Nightmare mode. They're too easy, even. I don't mind difficulty, I like it. But I do not want it presented in a way that changes the whole gameplay experience, which is the point I'm trying to make. Skill should be rewarded, I agree with that, but a majority of the ideas people have doesn't take the whole picture into account; they have no idea the change they suggested would totally imbalance the game in one way or another.

 

For instance, if you change energy acquisition to being rewarded from headshots, it's going to put a lot of weapons at a disadvantage. Weapons like the Gorgon or the Torid where it doesn't rely on accuracy to perform. What about melee then? Is it supposed to discourage melee?

 

Your OP post was very well written, but it addresses almost nothing except that you want skill to be rewarded. That it shouldn't reward the ability to shoot and use Warframe powers. How else should skill be measured in a third person action shooter?

I was just throwing out the energy regen idea because it was something.  I think Ced was actually the one that posted it and it went far beyond just headshots.  There were a ton of things that the writer listed off that could be used.  Headshots was just the only one that I recalled off-hand.  The point was skill->energy.

 

And there's a difference between playing skillfully and holding down LMB until all things are dead.  Right now, unfortunately the game is more the latter than the former.

[notionphil]

Pffft. You really think that the Design Council influences anything outside of Nova?

...

 

Yea, I doubted that badge meant anything. I've invested somewhere near $90 to WF, mostly potato/forma (I've potato'd every item i've used except kogake and dark swd, and I'm mastery 7). Still sitting on a few hundred plat. Don't like to buy weapons/frames.

 

I hope/trust the devs interpret feedback/ideas based on their merit, not a forum badge.

[Heptimus]

I have played Halo 4 recently, and i've noticed something that also was in Halo 3. You unlock armor by doing special types of kills, getting assists, completing the campaign on different difficulties, etc. And that made me think,

What if I could unlock Banshee by, say, completing X amounts of missions without being detected? Or kill X amounts of unaware enemies?

That would remove the RNG problem (farm 50+ hours of defense missions isn't fun), and it would be more... rewarding.

[jpvi1207]

I wish DE would read threads like this more often.

Right now Warframe is just going in a downward spiral into boredom. It's not just because Defense has become the be-all-end-all of Warframe. Right now almost all difficulty in this game is completely gear-based, long as you have enough time to waste on farming stuff to max mods or get the best gear almost any content is a cakewalk. And then all the hardcores go "I FORMAED MY POTATOED ACRID 8 TIMES! WHY IS GAME EASY??!! TOO EASY!!! MAKE HARDER!!!!", and DE just raises all the sodding planet levels and makes the game even harder, but only numerically, so that solo'ers and people without the LEET gear is locked out from more content, yet the game is still as much of a cakewalk as before for co-opers and hardcores with all the maxed gear. It's been said before that the game pre-U9 was perfectly balanced for solo play, which was why co-op felt too easy. If DE had listened to the right people, they would've known that introducing mission level scaling to player number would have been a much better option, as that would have made the game as accessible as before for solo'ers and non-hardcores, but wouldn't be a cakewalk for all the co-op players, who were essentially playing missions balanced for one player with 4 players and thus 4 times the firepower.

But wait, there's more! Powercreep is becoming an increasingly serious problem in the game. There has always been some gear that were clearly superior to others, and with the addition of the Prime weapons that's becoming even more clear. Why is powercreep bad? Just watch this:

And then there's the fact that a vast majority of the weapons are completely generic and uninteresting, with only a few exceptions such as the Glaive/Kestrel or the lab weapons.

Hell, the gameplay itself is still boring. Most of the enemies are still generic and uninteresting, either relying on sponginess or stunlock to present any kind of difficulty. Why does the Grineer Commander do nothing but switch teleport randomly instead of actually commanding their troops and raising their AI? Where's the Corpus elite snipers who can cloak and throw flashbangs? Where's the flying Infested units that toss thorns from afar?

And then there's the fact that the community keeps getting increasingly toxic and self-contradictive ever since the game got "big". Almost every time I look at the forum, most of the threads are "We're too powerful, give us BB guns instead" or "RUSHARS/DEFENS HEREOS RUININ MAH GAEMPLY EXPREINCE", or something about pvp or the microtransaction system. And then the flames begin in the replies section. Every time a good thread that has actually fresh and constructive suggestions or ones that point out major flaws in the game show up, it gets ignored and soon fades into oblivion, especially those that have wall-of-texts to explain their points in detail, because the average internet user has less attention span than a puppy. Just look at the whole "Nova is OP?" controversy right now. Every time someone suggests a tweak to Molecular Prime, if it doesn't involve insta-nuking an entire defense wave, everyone starts crying that that will ruin Nova and that all frames should have that same level of "press 4 to win" power instead. AND THEN these people complain that the game is too ez mode and the game should be more difficult.

I used to have a lot of hope for this game. I thought it had a ton of potential, and that with the proper nurturing, Warframe could be one of the best f2p shooters in history. Yet with almost every update, i find myself having less and less expectations for the future of Warframe. Look at Update 9, the "polishing" update. Yeah, what did they polish? Nothing but one boss fight and the UI. And the lore i guess. They even ruined the potential credit sink that would have been purchasable resources by making them plat-only instead. And of course after several updates, Nightmare Mode is STILL not a toggle-able option. I've had 450+ hours in this game, I've spent many hours writing concept threads about weapons/enemies/bosses, I've even drawn bloody fanart for the game, but nowadays I just can't find the motivation to play the game anymore. I hope DE can change that soon.

prime gear aint that good, its just re-fits of the same weapon, even though you might mention paris prime and bronco prime, they have their limitations, paris prime is after all a BOW which is awfull against big amounts of enemyeven with explosive mod on, and bronco prime has relatively short range and a big kick

[jpvi1207]

I have played Halo 4 recently, and i've noticed something that also was in Halo 3. You unlock armor by doing special types of kills, getting assists, completing the campaign on different difficulties, etc. And that made me think,

What if I could unlock Banshee by, say, completing X amounts of missions without being detected? Or kill X amounts of unaware enemies?

That would remove the RNG problem (farm 50+ hours of defense missions isn't fun), and it would be more... rewarding.

they mentioned something about achievements i remember

[Madotsuki]

prime gear aint that good, its just re-fits of the same weapon, even though you might mention paris prime and bronco prime, they have their limitations, paris prime is after all a BOW which is awfull against big amounts of enemyeven with explosive mod on, and bronco prime has relatively short range and a big kick

What I mean is that these prime gear are outright better in every way than their non-prime counterparts, and it's clear that more prime gear will be appearing in the future, essentially making more of the non-primes completely redundant. One could argue for a long time regarding whether the Paris is better than the Dread, but there is no argument that Paris Prime is better than the Paris, and ultimately as more people get prime gear, DE will be forced to balance the game based on prime gear stats, thus resulting in game power creep.

[Xylia]

They need to stop gating EVERYTHING behind Endless Defense.

 

Want to do Void? Go do Defense first for Keys (why can't we get keys from Capture?)

Want (insert rare mod here)? Go to Defense (why can't higher level raids give better mods at the end?)

Want some of the newest Void Weapons? Gotta do Void Defense/Mobile Defense (seriously...? Gotta do Defense for the Key AND Defense once you're in Void?)

 

Defense Defense Defense.

 

That's all this game is.

 

The Revamped Spy and Deception won't change much of anything UNLESS you give actual rewards at the end of missions. Quickdraw, Magazine Warp, Fast Hands, and Large Health Restores DO NOT COUNT AS REWARDS. I find those constantly on M Prime. I don't need to do high-level Captures to get those.

 

Maybe if Captures Lv30+ started giving the stuff you find out of Defense... people might do more Captures.