UPDATE!! We Are Getting Accessories Only For Unvaulted Packs Starting This Pack. THANK YOU [DE]!

[Glavenusaur]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

 

That's the thing though, they still aren't saying why the packs are not separate in the first place. From the outside it looks weird that they're not using the same structure as Prime Access, since you'd think having two packs would make them more money. It would help a lot if DE said why they aren't splitting them up.

True, it definitely would help this discussion a whole lot more, but until they do, money seems to be the only legitimate reason as to why they aren't selling them separately no? Considering everything else is practically free in the game, even the game itself.

[Rakosta_Kai]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Simply asking asking DE why they haven't bothered giving this subject a good talk over can apparently be seen as entitlement. Some people on this thread do not care what manner you say it in, if you are asking DE why they can't separate the packs that means you're entitled.

DE has already given this subject a "good talk over" and cosmetics are addressed in the Prime Access FAQ.

DE has no obligation to include the cosmetics in the vault bundles at all and are doing so at player request right now.

The only thing that players could reasonably ask for with vault openings is that the frames come dis-assembled and the slots come empty instead at player request.

But the cosmetics?

Their individual sale is exclusive to their individual Prime Access and it is bundled into the Prime Access Vault (for less than their original individual sale price)...It's why they are called a Prime Access Exclusive. 

Questioning DE's fairness on the matter makes no sense at this point because.

• Keeping it a Prime Access exclusive keeps to the letter of their word on these items from the beginning.
• Offering it once or twice a year gives players who missed the initial prime access another shot at the item (and some plat)

How is that not fair or in the spirit of compromise? It's both consistent and considerate to players that may have missed out.

You can't even reasonably say that it's inconvenient...All you (and whoever Jim Sterling is) can say is that you don't like it and it should be changed because you don't like it.

en·ti·tled

inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/

adjective

 

1. believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

...That's why people are calling you entitled.

 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

For those of you making the claim that DE would be more profitable by selling cosmetics separately, the burden of proof is on you to illustrate that that is, in fact, true. If you cannot provide such evidence, then by default, your argument is invalid.

[Lanadra]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

For those of you making the claim that DE would be more profitable by selling cosmetics separately, the burden of proof is on you to illustrate that that is, in fact, true. If you cannot provide such evidence, then by default, your argument is invalid.

I could be wrong.. but only OP has been arguing that point.. right..? o.o

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, Artorius-Alter said:

I could be wrong.. but only OP has been arguing that point.. right..? o.o

Does it matter who made it? It is an argument that has been made and needs to be validated. 

[Lanadra]

Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Does it matter who made it? It is an argument that has been made and needs to be validated. 

True.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

13 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

DE has already given this subject a "good talk over" and cosmetics are addressed in the Prime Access FAQ.

The reason why Vault packages are not separate are not addressed. You know that.

14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

player request right now.

Before Vault packages were out, people were calling others entitled for asking if they could have a chance to get the cosmetics of the past PA’s. The definition of entitlement changes a lot within this community it seems.

17 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Their individual sale is exclusive to their individual Prime Access and it is bundled into the Prime Access Vault (for less than their original individual sale price)...It's why they are called a Prime Access Exclusive. 

This is not related to what’s being talked about here at all. We’re not asking for the cosmtics to be sold in independant bundles not linked with their original PA packs.

My wuestion is why they simply don’t just bring the original PA deal back, only under  the Prime Vault name? Same price. Same two packs. Why can’t that be done?

20 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Keeping it a Prime Access exclusive keeps to the letter of their word on these items from the beginning.

Um, I’m not asking for them to be non-exclusive. Are you sure you haven’t confused me with someone else.

20 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Offering it once or twice a year gives players who missed the initial prime access another shot at the item (and some plat)

Yes. So why can’t they just being back the original PA packs? Loki Prime with his accessories etc etc.

22 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

How is that not fair or in the spirit of compromise?

Because the packs are not separate like how they were when PA packs were first introduced. So you have to purchase everything in order to get that one thing you missed out on. Like many people have said; this a practice solely catered on new players only.

It alienates the older community who already have the gear, but not the cosmetics.

23 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

1. believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

 

And again, I am not asking for special treatment. I’m asking for the opposite; stop focusing on one group and focus on all. Why is that so difficult for people to see?

 

11 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

For those of you making the claim that DE would be more profitable by selling cosmetics separately, the burden of proof is on you to illustrate that that is, in fact, true. If you cannot provide such evidence, then by default, your argument is invalid.

If there is no evidence against that argument, then it is not invalid. If we had DE’s numbers then we could invalid or validate the situation. However we do not. So right now, we cannot say with 100% certainty that DE would make more profit by splitting the packs and likewise you cannot say with 100% certainty that they would not.

Saying “Oh they haven’t done it which means it doesn’t make more money” is quite frankly moronic. If Excalibur Umbra was released in his own pack when he was discovered it would sell gangbusters. Instead DE are not doing that and providing him for free, even though it would make them a bundle. Why? Because of legal reasons. Same thing could be said of the Vault. But again, we do not know.

[Aelurus]

I am not that rich IRL, and I have to save money to buy things I want. So call me entitled (whatever), but I really cannot justify buying an unvault pack with a price equivalent to a new game for accessories and in-game duplicates that have no use. It's basically wasteful. I am not here to argue if it is profitable for DE or if Jim's video is a thinly-veiled threat. If you are counting DE, just add me to the list of people willing to give you money for accessory-specific packs.

[TalonBlue]

This thread is why there needs to be a drinking game for every post that uses the word entitled. Sad.

[forsenK]

1 minute ago, TalonBlue said:

This thread is why there needs to be a drinking game for every post that uses the word entitled. Sad.

When it's appropriate to use that word, people use it. And this post is quite large already, plenty of room for it. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

If there is no evidence against that argument, then it is not invalid. If we had DE’s numbers then we could invalid or validate the situation. However we do not. So right now, we cannot say with 100% certainty that DE would make more profit by splitting the packs and likewise you cannot say with 100% certainty that they would not.

Saying “Oh they haven’t done it which means it doesn’t make more money” is quite frankly moronic. If Excalibur Umbra was released in his own pack when he was discovered it would sell gangbusters. Instead DE are not doing that and providing him for free, even though it would make them a bundle. Why? Because of legal reasons. Same thing could be said of the Vault. But again, we do not know.

Which is the more moronic: pointing out that historically DE has shown that it has not sold cosmetics separately and, despite the minor outcry, continues with its current business model thus illustrating that it clearly is satisfied with the revenue it generates or making an argument from silence with absolutely no proof?

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

pointing out that historically DE has shown that it has not sold cosmetics separately

And now Prime Acces come in two packs. Why do you think that is?

6 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

making an argument from silence with absolutely no proof?

Falling back on fallacy accusations are we. It’s an argument/suggestion that is plausible as long DE do not directly come out and reveal that splitting the packs would/would not bring more revenue. I like how you did it exactly what I said you’d do. The old “If they haven’t done it by now it means they’re happy” which as we’ve already established, is moronic.

Edited February 8, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Kaiath64]

hace 39 minutos, Padre_Akais dijo:

The only thing that players could reasonably ask for with vault openings is that the frames come dis-assembled and the slots come empty instead at player request.

That would be the best solution to this... you don't need the primes but at least you can sell them.

[TalonBlue]

When DE is leaning on the community to it's standard bearer and there is controversy over something as simple as cosmetics I am reminded why I don't bother recommending this game to anyone. Time to lock the thread.

Edited February 8, 2018 by TalonBlue

[Glavenusaur]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

And now Prime Acces come in two packs. Why do you think that is?

Falling back on fallacy accusations are we. It’s an argument/suggestion that is plausible as long DE do not directly come out and reveal that splitting the packs would bring more revenue. I like how you did it exactly what I said you’d do. The old “If they haven’t done it by now it means they’re happy” which as we’ve already established, is moronic.

Not true, it's fine to make assumptions but claiming that DE would make more money by selling them separately is unfounded as there is no evidence to prove so, this is a fact, its like arguing for the existence of a higher power, the burden of proof falls on the one claiming for its existence, not to the people have reasonable doubt.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

And now Prime Acces come in two packs. Why do you think that is?

Falling back on fallacy accusations are we. It’s an argument/suggestion that is plausible as long DE do not directly come out and reveal that splitting the packs would bring more revenue. I like how you did it exactly what I said you’d do. The old “If they haven’t done it by now it means they’re happy” which as we’ve already established, is moronic.

Your inability to back up your argument without any proof invalidates it. Rhetoric 101.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, Glavenusaur said:

Not true, it's fine to make assumptions but claiming that DE would make more money by selling them separately is unfounded as there is no evidence to prove so, this is a fact, its like arguing for the existence of a higher power, the burden of proof falls on the one claiming for its existence, not to the people have reasonable doubt.

Prime Access is more expensive than the Prime Vault and it comes in two packs. Prime Vault is cheaper than the total cost of a full PA. PV is specifically catered to newer players and alienates more than a few of the veteran community. So at the very least we say it earns less than PA packs.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

-

Edited February 8, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Your inability to back up your argument without any proof invalidates it. Rhetoric 101.

Selling two packs for the same price as the original PA, would make more money than it does now. Common sense.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Selling two packs for the same price as the original PA, would make more money than it does now. Common sense.

The current PVs sell less than the current PAs. Try again.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

The current PVs sell less than the current PAs. Try again.

Oh so you do have their numbers? Please share.

Why do you think they sell less? Because they are not good deals for one half of the whole playerbase.

Edited February 8, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Glavenusaur]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Prime Access is more expensive than the Prime Vault and it comes in two packs. Prime Vault is cheaper than the total cost of a full PA. PV is specifically catered to newer players and alienates more than a few of the veteran community. So at the very least we say it earns less than PA packs.

But that could also be because prime vault releases doesn't release new content at all, which is why it ultimately cheaper than prime access as its already been in the game, warframes and weapons.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, Glavenusaur said:

But that could also be because prime vault releases doesn't release new content at all, which is why it ultimately cheaper than prime access as its already been in the game, warframes and weapons.

But to new players its new content. For us no. The cosmetics may not be technically new anymore but people who don’t have them still want them. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Oh so you do have their numbers? Please share.

Why do you think they sell less? Because they are not good deals for one half of the whole playerbase.

Any idiot with a computer can look up the current value of the Prime Vault packs and compare it to the current Prime Access.

They sell for less because these are older frames. Same reason car dealerships sell 2016 models cheaper than 2018 models.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Any idiot with a computer can look up the current value of the Prime Vault packs and compare it to the current Prime Access.

Ah so you don’t have their inside numbers. Good thanks for clearing that up.