Volt 2.0- er, I mean Frost thoughts.

[SpiderWaifu]

As the title suggest, it feels like a direct upgrade over the volt, in most cases.

Both of their first abilities say they stun, and do rather low damage. That would be fine and fairly balanced... If the Volt stunned every time like the Frost. [i'm calling freezing them solid a stun, sue me.]

I can't really compare their second abilities [Volts speed and Frosts line-of-damage] but I think I prefer the Volts for one reason. Frosts ability doesn't have a melee-strike animation like Lech Kril does. It'd be totally neato if it did.

Now, the third ability is a major problem in terms of balance. There's no way to get around it, no "it's my opinion" argument. Frosts shield is FAR better than Volts. The Volts is a small rectangularish shield that stops enemy fire and lets you shoot [unless you're using a bolt weapon >_>] and it's a nice ability to have. Firing through it also adds lightning damage and armor-ignoring shots, so that's a bonus. Frosts is a 360 degree blocking shield with a rather large radius, and it's also a sphere. Full protection from outside attacks, and you can shoot out even with a bolt weapon. "What if enemies are INSIDE the shield" you ask? They get slowed down big time. Enemies inside are at your full mercy, enemies outside can't touch you.

Avalanche feels superior to Overload in terms of damage and cool factor. My Volts overload has been DECLAWED. Like a cat, it's almost useless without claws. I have EVERY overload node for my Volt, and only ONE Avalanche node for my Frost. Avalanche undeniably does more damage.

Edit: The Overload can't kill TRASHMOB GRINEER.

TRASHMOBS. MY VOLT HAS BEEN SPAYED, NEUTERED, DECLAWED AND DEFANGED.

I'm not asking for a Frost nerf, far from it.

I'm asking for Volt to be Rebalanced, not put back to where Overload could wipe out a whole map.

Balancing can be hard, I understand this.

p.s: Volt shield idea - Enemies that touch it are stunned. Nodes increase it's length ( a lot ), and a bit of it's hieght.

Edited February 6, 2013 by SpiderWaifu

[Kyuzo]

if frost gets a nerf from this i'll haunt you.

but i agree on volt quit circle jerking him and not balancing out his other abilities.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Kyuzo

[Redler]

In my opinion, I think Volt need a major remake. He's been nerf and rebalance again and again (nerfing stuff but didn't give anything in return to actually make him playable) so many times that he's a mess now.

At least keep Speed though.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Redler

[CagedMind]

I'm scared of people saying frost is too good. Just seems like the first warframe with all moves being useful. Something that should be desired. Change power mods and make skills for other warframes useful. Then maybe take a closer look at frost skills.

[SpiderWaifu]

I'm scared of people saying frost is too good. Just seems like the first warframe with all moves being useful. Something that should be desired. Change power mods and make skills for other warframes useful. Then maybe take a closer look at frost skills.

Yeah, this post is for comparing the two Elemental Frames. [Except ember because I dun like it.]

I like the Frost how it is right now, it's great.

I want my Kawaii Volt-chan to be stronger, atleast on par with my Frosty Waifu.

Volt is supposed to do TONS OF DAMAGE [Phreak is god.] but it does subpar damage.

[tyki11]

I actually like Volt. The bolt is aoe unlike Frost's which is single target stun. I've used it to one shot a few corpus who hudled behing cover like a chain lighting.

As far as visuals, the whole floating in the air and releasing an emp like blast easily beats being surrounded by giant ping pong balls. Which keeps reminding me of those old machines they used to pick numbers for the lottery.

[SpiderWaifu]

I actually like Volt. The bolt is aoe unlike Frost's which is single target stun. I've used it to one shot a few corpus who hudled behing cover like a chain lighting.

I've rarely seen the first ability chain to other enemies. Even then, it was just one more enemy who didn't die, and wasn't stunned. I've recorded it as 14 x2 damage against lvl30+ Grineer.

[tyki11]

I've rarely seen the first ability chain to other enemies. Even then, it was just one more enemy who didn't die, and wasn't stunned. I've recorded it as 14 x2 damage against lvl30+ Grineer.

But using grineer as an example is bad pick. They are the heaviest units out there, heck, any non-armor piercing weapon will just tickle them. Except Furax and Daggers, I haven't seen many melee weapons one shot them, and the moment I switched to Abolto, they became easier than Corpus.

Add armor penetration to powers and voila!

[TheRealTuna]

According to the descriptions in the upgrade tree, upgrading Volt's Overcharge and Frost's Avalanche only increases the range of the skills, not the damage.

With that said, the damage on Volt's Overcharge does feel really lacking in terms of raw damage. On the other hand, Electricity/Fire are generally "weak" elements in the game, so it makes sense that Overcharge wouldn't be able to one shot things that aren't Corpus (can't even one shot Infested on Xini). Does anyone know the exact damage done by Overcharge? I know that Frost/Mag do 1,000 damage with their 4th skills unmodded.

[SpiderWaifu]

But using grineer as an example is bad pick. They are the heaviest units out there, heck, any non-armor piercing weapon will just tickle them. Except Furax and Daggers, I haven't seen many melee weapons one shot them, and the moment I switched to Abolto, they became easier than Corpus.

Add armor penetration to powers and voila!

You should hang around me when I use my Volt...

Since it's been declawed, I had to change it's focus. I turned my volt in to a shield-tank that's a god in melee.

I can 1shot enemies below level 20. Trash mobs above that, ANY trashmobs, take two shots.

Edit: I use Scindo.<3

Edited February 6, 2013 by SpiderWaifu

[Lazarus_Star]

As an original volt player that maxed him to 30. I am saddened by this. Having to max overload for it to only do tiny bits of damage is unfair. Yeah it was insane before but to make it basically ineffective hurts.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

My suggestions for Volt as before are as follows:

1. Buff Shock: it does zilch right now and I never have a use for it. I'd like to see it be able to chain through enemies at 3x range expenditure. Let's say the range is 100m. If you hit an enemy 20 meters away, it will chain to the nearest enemy as long as that enemy is withing 80/3 meters. Continue chaining up to say, 4/7/10 times depending on level.

2. Leave Sprint: it is fine right now IMO

3. Buff Shield: make it float in front of the player, allowing them to use it to clear rooms where there are lots of enemies around a corner among other uses.

4. Buff Overload: increase damage on the bolts fired from the Volt from the current apparent x/y/780 damage to 1200/1800/2400 damage and leave the overhead zaps at their current damage so that it always at least kills what is immediately around you and you don't get stagger/animation locked.

5. Buff Corpus: right now, they are too weak IMO to electrical damage which causes difficulty balancing the Volt. You have one faction that is ultra weak and two that are really resistant to a frame and you try balancing to the one that is weak, meaning that the other two races shrug off your damage.

6. Nerf Ancients: change their outright electricity immunity to a -90% damage reduction. I don't care if they can shrug off the damage you deal, but it should do something.

With those changes, the Volt should actually be viable across the board, not just against Corpus where it remains kinda OP. Ideally from these changes Overload would instagib any enemies immediately around you from the lightning that comes out of you while Corpus would take 2 overhead strikes to kill, infested mobs would take 1, and Grineer would take 3. Heavy units could obviously sustain more than that.

But using grineer as an example is bad pick.

Wrong. The Grineer are one of three factions. One faction is stupid weak to the Volt and that should be adjusted as above. One faction has units that outright ignore us and it's not like Ancients are uncommon like Grineer heavies. The third faction, Grineer, just shrugs off damage we deal. Being only able to kill one faction does not an effective or balanced Warframe make. Grineer are a third of the levels and if you can't do anything with your abilities on those levels, why aren't you switching to something that can like Frost? Frost is universally useful and like the Braton, should be the measuring stick for balance IMO.

You should hang around me when I use my Volt...

Since it's been declawed, I had to change it's focus. I turned my volt in to a shield-tank that's a god in melee.

I can 1shot enemies below level 20. Trash mobs above that, ANY trashmobs, take two shots.

Edit: I use Scindo.<3

I've unfortunately had to take a bit of a similar philosophy. I hate melee classes and love caster classes. That's why I picked Volt but to see him turned into a burst-tank is just sad.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[LazerusKI]

frost has its own big issues.

if you go for skills, you have very low energy.

my frost is only at 200 energy max.

also his mod slots are rare.

his ulti is the same as Mags with a different animation.

also he is very very slow

[Sevenstreams]

My thoughts after leveling both Volt and Frost to 30:

Volt's first ability is drastically more powerful than Frost's. Freeze does little damage, has a slow travel time, and is hardly ever worth using for the stun, as you have multiple more powerful defensive options. In contrast, Shock is instant and chains to nearby enemies. The stun against corpus is just icing.

Ice Wave will never see use. For 2 times the energy, you can do 10 times the damage in a gigantic AOE with no line of sight blocking with Avalanche.

Snow Globe is amazing. It trumps Electric Shield in every possible way, and I'd like to see Electric Shield scrapped and remade to be useful.

Volt's Overload used to be amazing before the last patch. I think it could still be amazing if they just removed the line of sight restrictions that they put in place. No real reason for EMPs to be blocked by walls. Avalanche is very similar to pre-patch Overload, and the two should stack up more closely.

Finally, a note on mobility. Volt's Speed is an amazing utility skill. Frost's biggest disadvantage is that he's slow with 0 mobility and you often are the last one to arrive to a room. Given the strength of his skillset, it's easy to overlook this, but it still requires a lot of modding to keep up with your group.

[Ryme]

I don't think Frost's abilities do "cold" damage. According to the damage charts, cold damage should do less damage to Grineer than Electric. That said, if his skills do have higher base damage than Volt's, they Devs are more likely to nerf Frost than Buff Volt. Don't worry, no one will be happy either either class soon enough.

[TheRealTuna]

Slightly off topic, I would love to see a rework of some of the 1st skills of each frame. Does anyone ACTUALLY use Freeze or Shock? Why even bother when you have so many better abilities available? Why would you even waste your energy using either of those skills when you could save your energy for the skills that actually do something? Same goes for Ember/Ashe first skills.

The instant exception to this, of course, being excalibur with his unreasonably strong 1st skill.

Don't get me wrong, the abovementioned skills make sense for each frame...it's only logical that the first skill of some frames be some sort of weaker, single target abiility representative of the frame, but the fact of the matter is that those single target skills are completely and utterly useless.

More on topic / @Seven:

- Yes, Ice Wave is horrendous. Volt's speed is much more valuable.

- Yes, snow globe is awesome and definitely makes up for Frost's lack of mobility. Seems to kind of be the purpose of this skill, almost...to immobilize others as opposed to having Frost be mobile himself.

- This is interesting to me, as I only just started playing Volt recently and didn't know that his 4th skill relies on line of sight. That's crazy! There is no reason why Volt's 4th skill should rely on line of sight when Frost/Mag 4th skills don't. All three of those 4th skills should effectively do the same thing / same amount of damage only utilizing different elements. I don't see how the skills could be considered "balanced" in any other way other than to equalize the damage they do and the area affected.

On the other hand, another idea could be having Volt's overcharge affect a smaller radius but doing greater damage...or, similarly, affecting a larger radius but doing less damage.

In truth, I feel like the current array of warframe skills are too basic. There is so much more that can be done with them. But, this is CBT, so that's what we are here for :D

[LazerusKI]

sure, i use freeze sometimes.

its great to freeze ancients or elite grineer

volts 4th skill should be reworked to the system we have with mag and frost, i think it would work better. remove the explosion damage, but keep the cool effect

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Personally, while it would make sense in a vacuum for Overload to be super long-ranged, it would still wouldn't fit with his kit which revolves heavily around shields which says to me: run into fray and [4]. I'd rather the abilities be as follows...

Overload: short-range instagib, long-range medium damage

Crush: mid-range high damage that acts as crowd control for the duration. Don't change this; when I was playing and maxed my Mag, I felt that it was perfect. True, it doesn't kill everything, but it does CC it and deal something like 90% damage and your allies can shoot the enemies for the duration

Avalanche: mid-range high damage with drastic slow following the damage on any survivors for an extended period, so it provides CC over a longer period of time but unlike Crush doesn't completely shut down enemies for the duration.

LoS requirements should be removed and they should do electricity, armor piercing, and freeze damage respectively.

frost has its own big issues.

if you go for skills, you have very low energy.

my frost is only at 200 energy max.

also his mod slots are rare.

his ulti is the same as Mags with a different animation.

also he is very very slow

Volt also has issues with energy. His tree is structured such that you pick two of the following three provided that you prioritize mod slots: Overload lvl3, Sprint lvl1, 200 max energy. I choose the first two and so am forced to run with only 175 max energy.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[DrunkPunk]

Frost is super slow mover, when im playing im always last, zero teamplay everyone tryink kill steal and loot steal(i prefer not bother to kill enyone or loot except bosses, when i need stuff i play solo,that ks and easyness crap kill teamplaying), way is cleared by fast movers because game is too easy , ice wave skill and first one is useless, ice wave more useles then first skill, super low damage, super low range even maxed, volt is good to finish missions faster, he runs super fast and have speed boost skill and have good aoe and first skill wich is half aoe and stun with good damage and yes volts shield is pure crap, bosses hit through so its useless, any other mobs fall too quick to use this shield against them

Edited February 6, 2013 by DrunkPunk

[LazerusKI]

thats true...with loki or ash in team...they are at the end of the map and then you reach the room they have cleared minutes ago...

the first skill is usefull to stop charging ancients

second skill is not needed

third skill is very good for defense, but volts shield can do that too.

ulti is the same as mags with another animation, you cant compare it with volts.

volt is very fast while frost is very slow.

the devs simply need to fix some frames like volt, ash or mag.

frost is one of the best balanced frames in my opinion, his skill are well placed in offense and defense (2 and 4 offense, 1 and 3 defense)

[SpiderWaifu]

I use Freeze very often as a frost. It's nice.

My currently plan for Frost is to make it in to a caster.

All sorts of Power- related mods, and tossing in one or two sprint mods.

Volt needs some sort of change to remain competitive in terms of skills.

[comeonandslam]

Unfortunately, Frost is almost certainly going to get nerfed. Avalanche and snow globe are just hilariously overpowered right now.

[CagedMind]

I did not know frost was slower. I seemed to of also got my hopes up and convinced myself that all of frosts skills were good.

[Kyuzo]

Unfortunately, Frost is almost certainly going to get nerfed. Avalanche and snow globe are just hilariously overpowered right now.

*cold death stare* (haunt youuuuuu)

[LazerusKI]

why is avalanche overpowered?

isnt it the same as mags ulti?

if not, please tell me the difference (except the animation)

i mean...

Mag

Stuns all the enemys in its radius for a few seconds (levitation)

crush them with 1000 base dmg, down to 333 against grineer

Frost

Stuns all the enemys in its radius for a few seconds (freeze)

shatter them with 1000 base dmg, down to 320 agains crawlers

there are other skills that are broken...look at Excaliburs dash (could be his ulti), Rhinos Ironskin (sometimes permaskin) etc...

snowglobe could be nerfed, or maybe give it a health bar so that it can get destroyed after some shots.

Edited February 7, 2013 by LazerusKI