We Need Endgame And A Challenge - What Do We Expect For Warframe's Future?

[r3dzer0]

Hi RaiZ0,

 

I think that you'll find that what you described as "minicampaigns" can be found within Notionphil's idea of cells(effectively quests strung together) and that would be all great and gravy :P

 

I don't know how well itd be to give players control of map builders, since that would be fairly resource intensive to include in a game like this.( works on rts's since not as many resources are used for units etc..) it could be fairly unique and fun to see what people would come up with, but in the end i think what we are campaigning for is not for the devs just to relinquish control of development to us, but rather invest more time into rebeefing the content that we currently have.  Your idea for a space ship is indeed intriguing and would make some sense.  You could compare it to travel systems implemented in many other mmo's (wow for one) and having an escape mission would be fairly interesting.  forget weapons lol, we're breaking out with fists and stealing weapons :D.  tilesets were created to allow many missions as creating each ship( though they are produced enmasse and should look fairly similar) would increase the size of the game from .... i think its about 4gb right now to approximately 20 gb, or they'd have fewer missions. 

 

Unrelated, did i hear right that there will be spacewalk rescue missions??? haha didn't think they'd go through with something like that :P

 

 

Edit: one more point, i think that being able to create your own warframe would render the current ones useless since you would mostly grab iron skin or frost globe for invinc, m prime for bombing, and maybe some other small ones to set them off probably won't happen :P

 

Still waiting to see patch 10 included to see if it addresses some of our issues, i understand that there are reworks going on, but i hope that its not going to be something dumb like just giving bosses invincibility >.> that's all we need is to wait more @.@.

GL DE!

Edited August 16, 2013 by r3dzer0

[ThePresident777]

The phrase "end game" is unfortunate.  It is ambiguous.   It can mean more than one thing.  First, taking the phrase at face value, you can end the game any time you want.  There is your end game.   But, there are other interpretations of the phrase end game that involve actually playing the game and those are the interesting interpretations.

 

Second, a dominant motivation in this game is leveling.  Everything in this game is on a leveling system.  Warframes, weapons, mods, credits, materials, and dojos are all quantified on a leveling system.  If you ignore the leveling system, you have 3 factions, a certain number of enemies, movement mechanics, nightmare modes, missions, dojo pvp, dojo obstacle course, weapon ammunition types, powers, thunder, fury, etc.  The quality and access to the game content changes little if any outside the leveling system.  And I think that is great because I'm not really interested in leveling.  I'm not interested in having content withheld from me.

 

The leveling system acts as a veil to obscure the true game.  We are largely repeating the same set of actions against the same set of enemies in the same set of tilesets for hours on end thinking that we are progressing every time we level something up.  But that sense of progress is an illusion.  Nothing truly changes.  The end game was always there, you were simply too focused on the shiny object to see you were already there, on the treadmill.  Which is why when people ask for end game, they are really just asking for more content, more action, and an end to leveling.

 

Since I want more content now, I prefer to ask for more content now rather than at the end of a leveling progression.  Which is why I think the phrase end game is unfortunate.  I don't want the game to end and I don't want it postponed.  I want it now and I want a lot of it.

 

So, having said that, I want Warframe to be better than Mass Effect 3 because Mass Effect 3 is a sluggish, plodding, clunky, shallow bug infestation.  I want Warframe to be better than D&D computer games because D&D has a massive bestiary but no D&D game comes anywhere near a trillion light years of having anything worth calling a bestiary.

 

In closing, I want more opponents, a lot more opponents.  I want a least one new interesting opponent every month.  I don't care if it's a boss.  I don't care what it drops.  I just want to have fun beating it up.

 

P.S.  64 player, 4 faction PvP, you know you want it!

Edited August 16, 2013 by ThePresident777

[jpvi1207]

true enough :3

 

The phrase "end game" is unfortunate.  It is ambiguous.   It can mean more than one thing.  First, taking the phrase at face value, you can end the game any time you want.  There is your end game.   But, there are other interpretations of the phrase end game that involve actually playing the game and those are the interesting interpretations.

 

Second, a dominant motivation in this game is leveling.  Everything in this game is on a leveling system.  Warframes, weapons, mods, credits, materials, and dojos are all quantified on a leveling system.  If you ignore the leveling system, you have 3 factions, a certain number of enemies, movement mechanics, nightmare modes, missions, dojo pvp, dojo obstacle course, weapon ammunition types, powers, thunder, fury, etc.  The quality and access to the game content changes little if any outside the leveling system.  And I think that is great because I'm not really interested in leveling.  I'm not interested in having content withheld from me.

 

The leveling system acts as a veil to obscure the true game.  We are largely repeating the same set of actions against the same set of enemies in the same set of tilesets for hours on end thinking that we are progressing every time we level something up.  But that sense of progress is an illusion.  Nothing truly changes.  The end game was always there, you were simply too focused on the shiny object to see you were already there, on the treadmill.  Which is why when people ask for end game, they are really just asking for more content, more action, and an end to leveling.

 

Since I want more content now, I prefer to ask for more content now rather than at the end of a leveling progression.  Which is why I think the phrase end game is unfortunate.  I don't want the game to end and I don't want it postponed.  I want it now and I want a lot of it.

 

So, having said that, I want Warframe to be better than Mass Effect 3 because Mass Effect 3 is a sluggish, plodding, clunky, shallow bug infestation.  I want Warframe to be better than D&D computer games because D&D has a massive bestiary but no D&D game comes anywhere near a trillion light years of having anything worth calling a bestiary.

 

In closing, I want more opponents, a lot more opponents.  I want a least one new interesting opponent every month.  I don't care if it's a boss.  I don't care what it drops.  I just want to have fun beating it up.

 

P.S.  64 player, 4 faction PvP, you know you want it!

YES YES YES WHO DO I HAVE TO KILL FOR IT?

[Eisvogel]

The phrase "end game" is unfortunate.  It is ambiguous.   It can mean more than one thing.  First, taking the phrase at face value, you can end the game any time you want.  There is your end game.   But, there are other interpretations of the phrase end game that involve actually playing the game and those are the interesting interpretations.

 

-snip-

 

While the expression in gaming it's a controversial one.... that's mostly because a lot of people make an incorrect use of it, just because it has "end" in the word. Just like when playing chess.... "endgame" it's the phase/stage where all the previous things/stages converge and reach climax. It's not the actual ending of the game nor the "checkmate".

And i even went through the trouble of outlining it's meaning for confused sheep out there, but i guess some don't think it's worth reading or miss it or ignore it... i don't know... other than that i can only keep quoting it over and over:

 

 

 

What is the current "endgame" ?

 

-snip-

 

Keep one thing in mind since some people tend to get confused about this, "endgame content" is not equal to "ending" or closure. I love the fact that WF is pretty open to keep making additions to the game and insert new features. We don't need a game ending or to wrap it up, we need end-game content and more challenges..... basically, more things to do and more variation when we finish the planets.

 

-snip-

 

 

About addressing the other things you mentioned.... first of all, you are spot on when you say the leveling and such is a veil. And that's the main point of this thread (dunno if you read it, but i am not gonna make any assumptions though), because the mastery system appeals to the completionist side of players in order to keep them in the game, while doing the same... over... and over... and over.... and over. So it's not really a matter of more content.... i do want it, but not as it is now... not as Phobos... or as more weapons... or items. We need a change of pace, hence, all the suggestions in this thread. Because we need to address the core, and while some of us endure the repetition and manage to stay playing... a lot of players get bored or quit after 20hs. And others end up alone because they friends leave and quit, and end up quitting themselves as well. I think that should be the priority (and that's why i chose "endgame" and "challenge" for the title), over more dots (missions) and disposable weapons.

 

 

P.S.  64 player, 4 faction PvP, you know you want it!

 

Particularly NO to this. I like how this game is PvE focused.... and as i said many times before, the main issue is that on one hand... it's not ready for more than squads of 4 action (hosting, p2p, poor optimization, etc), and on the other hand... it lacks the mechanics to have a decent pvp and to balance it without affecting PvE.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Eisvogel

[Enguzrad]

Well, it's co-op multiplayer game. It is supposed to be practicaly the same played over and over. Problem is that playing it over and over is not as fun as it should be.

[jpvi1207]

While the expression in gaming it's a controversial one.... that's mostly because a lot of people make an incorrect use of it, just because it has "end" in the word. Just like when playing chess.... "endgame" it's the phase/stage where all the previous things/stages converge and reach climax. It's not the actual ending of the game nor the "checkmate".

And i even went through the trouble of outlining it's meaning for confused sheep out there, but i guess some don't think it's worth reading or miss it or ignore it... i don't know... other than that i can only keep quoting it over and over:

 

 

 

 

About addressing the other things you mentioned.... first of all, you are spot on when you say the leveling and such is a veil. And that's the main point of this thread (dunno if you read it, but i am not gonna make any assumptions though), because the mastery system appeals to the completionist side of players in order to keep them in the game, while doing the same... over... and over... and over.... and over. So it's not really a matter of more content.... i do want it, but not as it is now... not as Phobos... or as more weapons... or items. We need a change of pace, hence, all the suggestions in this thread. Because we need to address the core, and while some of us endure the repetition and manage to stay playing... a lot of players get bored or quit after 20hs. And others end up alone because they friends leave and quit, and end up quitting themselves as well. I think that should be the priority (and that's why i chose "endgame" and "challenge" for the title), over more dots (missions) and disposable weapons.

 

 

 

Particularly NO to this. I like how this game is PvE focused.... and as i said many times before, the main issue is that on one hand... it's not ready for more than squads of 4 action (hosting, p2p, poor optimization, etc), and on the other hand... it lacks the mechanics to have a decent pvp and to balance it without affecting PvE.

we need a 30 player time based mission, we would need to take out 4 different reactors in a mobile fortress heading to a lotus secret outpost

[Eisvogel]

we need a 30 player time based mission, we would need to take out 4 different reactors in a mobile fortress heading to a lotus secret outpost

 

Let's try to keep the suggestions to what's plausible in Warframe's current situation.

As nice as it would be to have massive player missions, with numbers of 16, 32, etc players..... the game is p2p and based on player hosts.... it barely holds up as it is, and it still has a lot of performance/optimization issues.... and the networking and game lag is still present in massive amounts. Thinking of missions of more than 4... like 8 players is probably far far away from scope and current limitations for DE.... thinking beyond 8 players.... well..... Let's just say that.... Once Upon a Time... In a galaxy far FAR away.....

[jpvi1207]

Let's try to keep the suggestions to what's plausible in Warframe's current situation.

As nice as it would be to have massive player missions, with numbers of 16, 32, etc players..... the game is p2p and based on player hosts.... it barely holds up as it is, and it still has a lot of performance/optimization issues.... and the networking and game lag is still present in massive amounts. Thinking of missions of more than 4... like 8 players is probably far far away from scope and current limitations for DE.... thinking beyond 8 players.... well..... Let's just say that.... Once Upon a Time... In a galaxy far FAR away.....

pfth, p2p, sorry to say, but if you think this, your either a bum or a casual player, and ever seen that video with a bugged mission with over 40 players? did you see such awfull lag? maybe the DEs could host with a server specifically made for these missions, oh and you forgot to start the duuuuuuun dududuudunuduudududnuduuuuuun duun dudududuuuuun dun dudududuuuuuuun dun dudu duduuuuuuuun (star wars

[Eisvogel]

-snip-

 

If you don't know anything about networking or p2p, try to refrain from making claims based on opinion instead of facts, i try to talk and remain on the factual side. And at the present time, without DE being able to assemble dedicated servers, the task is out of reach.

So I'd rather focus on the things we can work with and try to improve the existing gameplay at the moment, using what's already there.

 

Let's hope Warframe keeps growing bigger and bigger and reaches the point of that kind of things being a reality, there's nothing I'd love more :)

[jpvi1207]

If you don't know anything about networking or p2p, try to refrain from making claims based on opinion instead of facts, i try to talk and remain on the factual side. And at the present time, without DE being able to assemble dedicated servers, the task is out of reach.

So I'd rather focus on the things we can work with and try to improve the existing gameplay at the moment, using what's already there.

 

Let's hope Warframe keeps growing bigger and bigger and reaches the point of that kind of things being a reality, there's nothing I'd love more (add rape face here XD)

pay to play as in for them to have enough funds? or pay to play as of the players to get weapons and warframes?

nothing is impossible, and its not based on opinion, its a fact that the bug with 40 plus people wasnt having any lag at all

since warframe will get launched for the ps4, shouldnt they get some kind of increase in popularity and get payed a small percent of the total income of the ps4 sales? that should affect their capital positively enough for them to invest in dedicated servers

[Eisvogel]

-snip-

 

Hello!

It took some time to read this hehe

 

Well man, let me tell you.... there are some great ideas there. The problem is that, it feels like you are talking about another game entirely. I mean, what you describe there could be awesome and it intrigues me, but i don't see anything that even closely resembles the actual game..... it would be like making another thing entirely :/

 

About the map/mission/campaign builder..... at this point it's probably a NO NO, i think people have asked a lot for it. But i don't see DE handing something like that anytime soon... i don't think it's in their best interests either. At this point, they need to keep focusing in the game.... not a custom builder... and i am not really sure of how that would impact the game, i don't know if that would be positive.

 

Thanks for taking the time to write all that anyways!

[r3dzer0]

pay to play as in for them to have enough funds? or pay to play as of the players to get weapons and warframes?

nothing is impossible, and its not based on opinion, its a fact that the bug with 40 plus people wasnt having any lag at all

since warframe will get launched for the ps4, shouldnt they get some kind of increase in popularity and get payed a small percent of the total income of the ps4 sales? that should affect their capital positively enough for them to invest in dedicated servers

p2p just so you know is Peer to peer, its a way of communicating data.  currently when we grab a group, the leader is the host of that group, as in all data concerning enemy spawns, bullets, moves etc, is processed through his computer and sends it back through everyone elses so that they can play.  Ever had a bad connection playing with a cruddy host?  mobs lag and people teleport?  poor connection will do that.  The difference in p2p and a dedicated server is the load that you can force on the host.  p2p can probably handle only so many b4 it craps out.  a server however is like a super computer and can handle multiple connections at once.  So basically my pooint is that until they get servers pvp is probably never going to happen outside the dojo. 

 

 

edit: also concerning the 40 man bug, were all 40 people moving? cuz i've seen some 20 mans in defense and people werent' moving at all

Edited August 17, 2013 by r3dzer0

[Eisvogel]

-snip-

 

exactly

[RazorTip]

pay to play as in for them to have enough funds? or pay to play as of the players to get weapons and warframes?

 

pay to play as in for them to have enough funds?

 

pay to play

 

Dude, you high? Where exactly do you see that in Warframe? In World of Warcraft, yes, you have to play a monthly fee in order to play, but here?

See, this is what happens when you let your mouth run on overdrive, you say stuff that has nothing to do with what others are saying. Get that foot off your mouth and think twice before posting. They're talking about connectivity and lag issues with the P2P system, in other words, PEER TO PEER.

[SOUP.CAN]

I agree with this very much and hope the devs implement it soon. I especially like the idea of the infested being like the xenomorphs from Alien where they can climb along walls and upside down.

[RaiZ0]

On begining, when i have to unlock all planets, it was fun.

Now. Everything is open. No place to explore.

There is no place to go. If i go to higher level mission, i will take
higher level stuff. Thats all.

Now i doing only nightmare missions and void.
Defence missions are for void farming only for me.

Layout of tilesets is almoust same all the time.
Maybe, if mission genetator could make more complex layout.

User generated content will solve this. I dont know how big is code for auto generated mission.
But i dont think it is big.

Imagine like oyu have about 10 special minicamping mission per day.
Every day you will have something ponetionaly unique.
 

I like to play stealthy. Go to target and go out without alarm.
This is reason whay i play. There is not many stealthy games.
There is no ninja stealthy game with gameplay so good like Warframe.

Back to topic.

If map still be same like it is now, i will be bored.
I play every day almoust. Not for farming. Not for leveling.
Not for progress. I play to get some quick good action to take a break from work.

Now every player have same missions. No real goal.
I know how to kill every oponent in game.
I still didnt complete any T3 defence. That is not my goal anyway.

----------

Simple:

Way how mission are given to player should be different.

 

Maybe more like map with spaceship. 

Traveling spaceship like map wil help my boredom.

 

 

Maybe in some way like personal dark vs light type progress.
I think Steve talk about it little bit. Tenno like Jedi and Stalkers like Siths.

Everybody starts like Jedi. Lotus is autority for Tennos. But if you have some kind choice and fall
in to Stalkers faction. They will have some dark Lord Palpatine Demon Badass .Then PvP make sense. I mean 2 vs 2 max.

Your Team - stalkers vs Oponent team - team.

You will go in same mission ( this doesnt work in defence type of mission )
on oposite direction spawn points. Team who made it fist, wins.

You will fight with grineer and other player in same time.
Now clans can fight each other. It will combine actual game with PvP relativly easily.
You will have new body skin for every warframe for Stalker version.
You can other player in mission. When you start a mission you would never know if some will hunt you or not.



And progress could be like. Collect 50, 150, 300 datas. Capture 50, 150, 300.
Assainte 10,50 ..... bosses. You will get some reward.
What about some rare mods? ( and maybe some skins, i would do lot of work just for some camo stuff )
Remember how everyone was mad about these 3 new mods on
Acid Fear Operations? If you could get this type of mods just by progress like this.

 

[jpvi1207]

depends on host entirely if there is any lag

[jpvi1207]

Dude, you high? Where exactly do you see that in Warframe? In World of Warcraft, yes, you have to play a monthly fee in order to play, but here?

See, this is what happens when you let your mouth run on overdrive, you say stuff that has nothing to do with what others are saying. Get that foot off your mouth and think twice before posting. They're talking about connectivity and lag issues with the P2P system, in other words, PEER TO PEER.

and you better start changing your attitude, it looks like your having the monthly period and thats why your being a jerk

[RazorTip]

and you better start changing your attitude, it looks like your having the monthly period and thats why your being a jerk

After you. No, no, I insist, after you. Ladies first, after all.

 

I wasn't being a jerk, I was calling you to your senses. Besides, you weren't polite either when you started calling Eisvogel a "bum or a casual" for thinking this game is Peer to Peer while you thought it was Pay to Play, even thought it has been stated dozens of times, wasn't it?

 

And for wishing for 30 player missions, dear God.

Edited August 17, 2013 by RazorTip

[jpvi1207]

After you. No, no, I insist, after you. Ladies first, after all.

 

I wasn't being a jerk, I was calling you to your senses. Besides, you weren't polite either when you started calling Eisvogel a "bum or a casual" for thinking this game is Peer to Peer while you thought it was Pay to Play, even thought it has been stated dozens of times, wasn't it?

 

And for wishing for 30 player missions, dear God.

solo jerk alert, watch out

[RazorTip]

solo jerk alert, watch out

Nice maturity back there. I take it you're one of those rushers that love to do nothing more than run to the objective/escape pod and leave everyone behind? Y'know, the ones who join someone else's squad, pretends to not understand what they say when they ask to wait, and delights himself in forcing others to keep up with him/leave everything behind because he is impatient enough to activate the stupid timer?

 

Also, what does me being a solo player have to do with this Peer to Peer discussion? And where exactly, in this thread, did I state that? Like I said, my good man, take your foot off your mouth.

Edited August 17, 2013 by RazorTip

[jpvi1207]

Nice maturity back there. I take it you're one of those rushers that love to do nothing more than run to the objective/escape pod and leave everyone behind? Y'know, the ones who join someone else's squad, pretends to not understand what they say when they ask to wait, and delights himself in forcing others to keep up with him/leave everything behind because he is impatient enough to activate the stupid timer?

 

Also, what does me being a solo player have to do with this Peer to Peer discussion? And where exactly, in this thread, did I state that? Like I said, my good man, take your foot off your mouth.

sure.....im a rusher that likes to take time to kill enemies and help friends if they stay back...nice try champ..maybe next time, and you take that pride of your head, its making you have illusions of greatness

 

edit:the only jerk taht wouldnt like 30 player VS mobile fortress mission, seems to be you

Edited August 17, 2013 by jpvi1207

[RazorTip]

sure.....im a rusher that likes to take time to kill enemies and help friends if they stay back...nice try champ..maybe next time, and you take that pride of your head, its making you have illusions of greatness

 

edit:the only jerk taht wouldnt like 30 player VS mobile fortress mission, seems to be you

 

Dude, think. Imagine you have 30 Tenno, all shooting their guns, all using their abilities (namely, ability number 4), enemies firing back, explosions, chain detonations, all happening at the same time. Imagine what that would do to your framerate? Or your latency? Or your computer, for that matter. Unless you have a monster of a computer, you'd be frying it. In this current system, Peer to Peer, it is impossible to have such a mission without having several game-breaking bugs and issues. Want a game that has something similar? Then look no further, World of Warcraft has those sorts of missions, and they work, why? Because of proper servers. Warframe lacks that. Want another game that supports dozens of players playing with each other and against each other? Look at any shooter games with dedicated servers. I'm not saying I'm against this idea, hell, I think it's a good idea, but with this current system, it wouldn't simply work.

Edited August 17, 2013 by RazorTip

[Enguzrad]

Stop arguing you two, you are wasting your time.
Also more than 4 players in one game is now impossible unless you have your own server which can handle that. And 30 players vs mobile fortress can be cool and also incredibly stupid, it depends how well you design it.

[RazorTip]

Stop arguing you two, you are wasting your time.

Also more than 4 players in one game is now impossible unless you have your own server which can handle that. And 30 players vs mobile fortress can be cool and also incredibly stupid, it depends how well you design it.

Arguing? I thought we were having a healthy, albeit heated, discussion.