So sick of trading chat, why can't we get an auction house?

[Urabask]

1 hour ago, Kaminariss said:

And here we go again, why are you having trouble of understanding that selling was also never hard? You can sell things in a matter of minutes. If you have troubles with selling only means that you have no idea how current market works and it is the definite proof.

If this is true there's no need to have an auction house ...

Frustration with WFM and trade chat causes a lot of players to just not bother selling anything.  That's the main reason people even want an auction house.  

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[TheRealDestian]

11 hours ago, Aggh said:

The current economy has a very ideal balance on value vs grind.  Messing around with it for a bit of extra convenience would be pretty dumb.

Not when the entire thing is held in place by how obtuse the system is, though.

That's like making a game "difficult" by giving it terrible controls: You may have technically succeeded, but you did it by sidestepping the issue instead of addressing it.

If the economy only "works" because a sufficient number of players hate engaging it, then it's a terrible economy and needs revamping, period.

[Urabask]

12 minutes ago, TheRealDestian said:

Not when the entire thing is held in place by how obtuse the system is, though.

That's like making a game "difficult" by giving it terrible controls: You may have technically succeeded, but you did it by sidestepping the issue instead of addressing it.

If the economy only "works" because a sufficient number of players hate engaging it, then it's a terrible economy and needs revamping, period.

Maintaining the current balance between value and ease of access for plat is the kind of thing most MMO developers only dream of.  You are significantly understating the success of Warframe's economy relative to other games.

The only way for it to work with an AH would be lower drop rates on uncommon/rare items and make relics harder to obtain.  Most games make this work by having premium currency exclusively for purchasing items in their cash shop while the AH uses a currency earned via gameplay.  Most of these games also end up being incredibly unfair to players and end up with economies that are broken and highly susceptible to manipulation.

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[Kaminariss]

1 hour ago, Urabask said:

You are significantly understating the success of Warframe's economy relative to other games.

What success? Warframe economy is still in stone age. WoW economy vs Warframe "economy" is like comparing Mercedes E210.to Fiat Multipla.

1 hour ago, Urabask said:

The only way for it to work with an AH would be lower drop rates on uncommon/rare items and make relics harder to obtain. 

That would make all prices skyrocket. To make AH successful you need 2 things: Limit of concurrent items relatively low (5-10) and trade tax.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Kaminariss

[Aggh]

4 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

And here we go again, why are you having trouble of understanding that selling was also never hard? You can sell things in a matter of minutes. If you have troubles with selling only means that you have no idea how current market works and it is the definite proof.

 

The fact? The bullsh*t not the fact. The only thing you may have problems selling are the rivens.

 

Thats because you don't understand how economy works. Demand is what limits the supply, not the other way around. Now go read my equations once more and try to understand them.

Who am I trying to kid. You won't understand this anyway so lets make things clear: [Demand] in my equation already accounts for supply.
Supply and demand are 2 variables sure but if one changes the second one changes as well. It would be dumb to put both of them in equation.

Simplified curve looks like this:

You're applying your anecdotal experience to a multimillion person player base.  People have been asking for an AH since trading was ever implemented.  Even the most popular trading site in the game has only a tiny fraction of the active player base actually using it.  So unless you think that people are ignoring warframe.market because trade chat makes selling stuff so easy that they don't need it, guess what?  Selling stuff takes more effort than what most people are willing to put in.  Thus the vast majority of players.do.not.sell.things. 

And despite that, it is still very easy for anyone to find a seller.  And do you know why that is?  Because even in the current environment, supply vastly exceeds demand.  Go look at almost any item on nexus stats (which pulls directly from trade chat).  The vast majority of items (even stuff that has been vaulted for over a year) have at least four times as many buyers as there are seller.  And the existing quantity of items that are not even part of current supply vastly exceeds any potential that demand has for growth.

Demand does not limit supply.  Supply limits demand and demand limits supply.

So basically, you are obsessed with supply and demand but don't want to account for it in your dumb equation.  And to top it off, have a redundant "popularity" stat as though demand doesn't already account for that.

2 hours ago, TheRealDestian said:

Not when the entire thing is held in place by how obtuse the system is, though.

That's like making a game "difficult" by giving it terrible controls: You may have technically succeeded, but you did it by sidestepping the issue instead of addressing it.

If the economy only "works" because a sufficient number of players hate engaging it, then it's a terrible economy and needs revamping, period.

Technically succeeding is more than the vast majority of game economies have actually done, especially in games where premium currency is used to trade.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aggh

[Kaminariss]

26 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Selling stuff takes more effort than what most people are willing to put in.  Thus the vast majority of players.do.not.sell.things. 

That is only your assumption, probably based on personal issues with selling. Have you ever thought that maybe it is because there is nothing else for them to buy? Maybe people want to play a game not sit tight in dojo? Maybe they don't want to farm things because it is a chore? WoW is no exception. There are really few active players on AH compared to whole playerbase. Most people use AH to buy consumables and ocasionally sell things. People just want to play a game.

 

33 minutes ago, Aggh said:

And do you know why that is?  Because even in the current environment, supply vastly exceeds demand. 

No, that is not the cause. Cause is way simpler, because there are limited things to buy and whole "economy" hangs on a new players. Without new players economy would be dead in few months. Without new players everyone would eventually have everything and thus demand would drop to zero.

44 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Go look at almost any item on nexus stats (which pulls directly from trade chat).  The vast majority of items (even stuff that has been vaulted for over a year) have at least four times as many buyers as there are seller. 

You know that this does not prove anything? Both buyers and sellers could simply react to each other by whispering. You wouldn't know that the transaction was made. You could spam WTS Akbolto Prime 100p and affect these stats. Trade chat is as unreliable as it gets.

47 minutes ago, Aggh said:

So basically, you are obsessed with supply and demand but don't want to account for it in your dumb equation.  And to top it off, have a redundant "popularity" stat as though demand doesn't already account for that.

So basically you haven't read my post fully and sprouting nonsense again. I said that [Demand] in my equation already accounts for BOTH supply and demand, it is not actual "demand" as in supply/demand curve.

51 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Technically succeeding is more than the vast majority of game economies have actually done, especially in games where premium currency is used to trade.

And what is a premium currency? Virtual currency that can be made to purchase everything that game has to offer? If so, WoW gold is also a "premium currency". Heck, you can even buy other games using gold from blizzard store.

[Urabask]

9 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

And what is a premium currency? Virtual currency that can be made to purchase everything that game has to offer? If so, WoW gold is also a "premium currency". Heck, you can even buy other games using gold from blizzard store.

Premium currencies can only be bought directly for cash.  The fact that you can farm WoW gold in game means it is not a premium currency.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[Aggh]

24 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

That is only your assumption, probably based on personal issues with selling. Have you ever thought that maybe it is because there is nothing else for them to buy? Maybe people want to play a game not sit tight in dojo? Maybe they don't want to farm things because it is a chore? WoW is no exception. There are really few active players on AH compared to whole playerbase. Most people use AH to buy consumables and ocasionally sell things. People just want to play a game.

It's an assumption born out by how changes to accessibility have actually affected the game.  You're literally the only person here making the claim that it is any other way in this game.  If you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore reality, do it on your own damn time.

 

24 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

No, that is not the cause. Cause is way simpler, because there are limited things to buy and whole "economy" hangs on a new players. Without new players economy would be dead in few months. Without new players everyone would eventually have everything and thus demand would drop to zero.

All that explains is why demand hasn't completely dropped to zero, it doesn't change that supply is greater than demand.
 

24 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

You know that this does not prove anything? Both buyers and sellers could simply react to each other by whispering. You wouldn't know that the transaction was made. You could spam WTS Akbolto Prime 100p and affect these stats. Trade chat is as unreliable as it gets.

Nexus is stats is based on unique players, a single player spamming a price over and over is still one player.

 

24 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

o basically you haven't read my post fully and sprouting nonsense again. I said that [Demand] in my equation already accounts for BOTH supply and demand, it is not actual "demand" as in supply/demand curve.

No, it's you who is spouting nonsense.  Your definition for demand is "modifier that shows how many players want to buy specific item ".  That is literally a half assed definition of demand.  It does not account for supply or whether or not players are even actually able to buy an item.
 

24 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

And what is a premium currency? Virtual currency that can be made to purchase everything that game has to offer? If so, WoW gold is also a "premium currency". Heck, you can even buy other games using gold from blizzard store

Are we circling back to your half assed understanding of virtual currencies?  Premium currencies can only be acquired by purchasing them with cash.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aggh

[Kaminariss]

18 minutes ago, Urabask said:

Premium currencies can only be bought directly for cash.

26 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Are we circling back to your half assed understanding of virtual currencies?  Premium currencies can only be acquired by purchasing them with cash.

So if I buy "premium currency" with my time does it stop being "premium" ?
IF i buy one premium currency with another, did they stop being "premium" ?
What is so "premium" about currency that can be only exchanged one way?

Is bitcoin a premium currency? Is cash a premium currency? Are rocks a premium currency?

5 minutes ago, Aggh said:

It's an assumption born out by how changes to accessibility have actually affected the game.  You're literally the only person here making the claim that it is any other way in this game.

Oh, so you admit that this is assumption? Great, now the second assumption is that you are the only person here that claims that I am the only person that claims differently than you. IE you are speaking for everone and trying to use that as argument in discussion.

7 minutes ago, Aggh said:

All that explains is why demand hasn't completely dropped to zero, it doesn't change that supply is greater than demand.

It explains WHY supply is greater than demand. Simply because the outlet is new players that doesn't have specific item yet. This also means that game is aging = there are more old players than new players are coming in.

10 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Nexus is stats is based on unique players, a single player spamming a price over and over is still one player.

Considering you can create as many accounts you want it is still not trustworthy source. You still can't say if specific player has made actual transaction. You can only tell that specific player was TRYING to.

12 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Your definition for demand is "modifier that shows how many players want to buy specific item ".  That is literally a half assed definition of demand.  It does not account for supply or whether or not players are even actually able to buy an item.

Yes it does, my variable [Demand] is a MULTIPLIER that is a RESULT of supply/demand curve. Let me yet again explain it a bit.

10 people are trying to sell Fang Prime in specific period of time. 5 people are trying to buy it in the same timespan.
Supply is twice as high as demand. Lets say that base Value (value, not the price) of Fang Prime is 10p. Which is the amount of time needed to acquire Fang Prime.
Now if you take simplified supply/demand curve where both curves are perfectly linear. The market price would stabilize at ~6p.

Now if you put those values in my equation:

[Price] = [Value] * [Popularity] * [Demand] + [Time used to make trade]

[Price] = 10p * [Popularity] * 10/5 + [Time used to make trade]

If we assume that Fang prime is neither new nor old item, popularity = 1, but as I said the first time [Popularity] can also be incorporated into [Demand] variable.

That gives us:

[Price] = 10p * 1 * 10/5 + [Time used to make trade]

[Price] = 10p * 1 * 10/5 + [Time used to make trade]

6p = 5p + [Time used to make trade]

So time used to make a trade is worth around 1p.

Of course real price would be a bit different since supply and demand curve is usually not perfectly linear.

 

[Urabask]

1 hour ago, Kaminariss said:

So if I buy "premium currency" with my time does it stop being "premium" ?
IF i buy one premium currency with another, did they stop being "premium" ?
What is so "premium" about currency that can be only exchanged one way?

Is bitcoin a premium currency? Is cash a premium currency? Are rocks a premium currency?

If it enters the game via any way other than purchases made with real money it is not a premium currency.  You know this and I don't know why you're pretending you don't.  I don't know why you'd be bringing up cash, barter or virtual currencies not related to games.  You know they're not relevant as premium currency is a descriptor that's exclusive to video games.

You're just being intentionally obtuse.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, Urabask said:

If it enters the game via any way other than purchases made with real money it is not a premium currency.  You know this and I don't know why you're pretending you don't.  I don't know why you'd be bringing up cash, barter or virtual currencies not related to games.  You know they're not relevant as premium currency is a descriptor that's exclusive to video games.

Yeah, arguing semantics doesn't add to the discussion. Now does it.

[Urabask]

Just now, toxicpanda said:

Yeah, arguing semantics doesn't add to the discussion. Now does it.

It does in the context of a Warframe AH because he's trying to compare economies where the AH does not use premium currencies to Warframe as if there is no difference.

[Kaminariss]

15 minutes ago, toxicpanda said:

Yeah, arguing semantics doesn't add to the discussion. Now does it.

 

15 minutes ago, Urabask said:

It does in the context of a Warframe AH because he's trying to compare economies where the AH does not use premium currencies to Warframe as if there is no difference.

It does in current context because premium means you can do something extra with it. It wouldn't make any sense for a virtual currency to be a premium if there would be no differences between normal currencies.

For example what does it matter if I buy virtual currency using just one exchange (direct) or if i make one more conversion (indirect)? Let me tell you, it doesn't matter at all.

In fact, for me an many other players direct purchase of platinum is impossible. Why? Because not every country in the world has USD as their main currency. First I need to convert my curency into USD then convert USD into Platinum.

So now the matter of usage, I have played Lineage II revolution for a month or so. It had a trully premium currency caled Diamonds:

http://www.lineage2revolution.eu/getting-started/trading/

Quote

In exchange for Red Diamonds you can extend your inventory slots, extend max number of entries to Dungeons and to Arena or you can reset Quest scrolls. You can also purchase various luxury items from the shop for Red Diamonds.

So not only Diamonds were purchasable only by real money BUT it had exclusive usage. You could buy something with it that you normally wouldn't been able with Adena.

Very similar concept to Warframe except Credits are generally useless.

Now why would I want to compare it with WoW? Well because there is nothing you cannot buy using gold, everything including shop items, there is no other currency (well thats not entirely true). Not only that, you can convert gold to real money and buy other games for example Destiny 2, Diablo 3 and many other Blizzard games. Can you do that with platinum?

So now tell me, how WF platinum is more premium than WoW gold?

Now that reminds me. I can simply use L2R as reference as it has very similar trading/currency model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF22_SrQMWg

 

Did you notice anything? Like for example this?

And isnt Trade Post in L2R exactly what people want in Warframe?

See? It was simple wasn't it? I can see other limitations:

1. Item must be tradable. Tradable item can be identified by Blue Diamond symbol on it. Tradable items can be obtained the same way as untradeable (Monster Hunting, Raids, Dungeons), but the chance to drop tradable item is lower.
2. Items must be S-Grade or higher (except Monster Cores, those will be registered from C-Grade)
3. If you want to sell an item with Soul Crystal, you must remove this crystal from the item before selling it.
4. You must be level 21 or higher to start trading in Trading Post.

Other useful information about Trading Post:
1. You can only sell maximum 15 items at one time.
2. Items are registered to sell for a 48 hours period. After that you need to re-register those items.
3. Once item is sold you will receive Blue Diamonds, but fee from the price is deducted.
4. Each item has different minimum sell amount. This means that the item can’t be sold under certain value.
5. If you have a tradable item and try to level up with an untradeable item, it will result in an untradeable item. The same appplies to upgrading, combining, soul crystal insert, enchanting, attribute enchanting and to limit breaking.

[Urabask]

1 hour ago, Kaminariss said:

 

It does in current context because premium means you can do something extra with it. It wouldn't make any sense for a virtual currency to be a premium if there would be no differences between normal currencies.

For example what does it matter if I buy virtual currency using just one exchange (direct) or if i make one more conversion (indirect)? Let me tell you, it doesn't matter at all.

In fact, for me an many other players direct purchase of platinum is impossible. Why? Because not every country in the world has USD as their main currency. First I need to convert my curency into USD then convert USD into Platinum.

So now the matter of usage, I have played Lineage II revolution for a month or so. It had a trully premium currency caled Diamonds:

http://www.lineage2revolution.eu/getting-started/trading/

So not only Diamonds were purchasable only by real money BUT it had exclusive usage. You could buy something with it that you normally wouldn't been able with Adena.

Very similar concept to Warframe except Credits are generally useless.

Now why would I want to compare it with WoW? Well because there is nothing you cannot buy using gold, everything including shop items, there is no other currency (well thats not entirely true). Not only that, you can convert gold to real money and buy other games for example Destiny 2, Diablo 3 and many other Blizzard games. Can you do that with platinum?

So now tell me, how WF platinum is more premium than WoW gold?

Now that reminds me. I can simply use L2R as reference as it has very similar trading/currency model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF22_SrQMWg

 

Did you notice anything? Like for example this?

And isnt Trade Post in L2R exactly what people want in Warframe?

See? It was simple wasn't it? I can see other limitations:

1. Item must be tradable. Tradable item can be identified by Blue Diamond symbol on it. Tradable items can be obtained the same way as untradeable (Monster Hunting, Raids, Dungeons), but the chance to drop tradable item is lower.
2. Items must be S-Grade or higher (except Monster Cores, those will be registered from C-Grade)
3. If you want to sell an item with Soul Crystal, you must remove this crystal from the item before selling it.
4. You must be level 21 or higher to start trading in Trading Post.

Other useful information about Trading Post:
1. You can only sell maximum 15 items at one time.
2. Items are registered to sell for a 48 hours period. After that you need to re-register those items.
3. Once item is sold you will receive Blue Diamonds, but fee from the price is deducted.
4. Each item has different minimum sell amount. This means that the item can’t be sold under certain value.
5. If you have a tradable item and try to level up with an untradeable item, it will result in an untradeable item. The same appplies to upgrading, combining, soul crystal insert, enchanting, attribute enchanting and to limit breaking.

You are quibbling over the definition of premium when not being used in the context of an online game.  What you don't seem to understand is that this is industry jargon.  IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK PREMIUM CURRENCY MEANS.  It is used exclusively to refer to currency that is bought directly with actual money. 
Also it's kind of hilarious that you'd post L2R considering they're going to be replacing blue diamonds with green diamonds (a new currency you can't purchase with cash) in the L2R trading post.    In this case the South Korean government decided that the trading post mimics RMT sites and could violate gambling laws.  Compliance with the law isn't always immediate and sometimes it takes a lawsuit especially with relatively new concepts like this.  Either way the vast majority of developers are not willing or able to take on the potential liabilities such a system represents.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[Kaminariss]

3 minutes ago, Urabask said:

What you don't seem to understand is that this is industry jargon. 

Oh so its a jargon, no wonder google doesn't know its definition because it does not exist. So that means it doesnt matter what you think neither.

Premium currency is a currency that can buy you pretty much everthing, that is the major condition of currency to be called Premium.

So now it is not the giftcard law problem but a gambling law? Seems like you don't know a thing about what you were talking about earlier, reducing your creditability close to zero.

16 minutes ago, Urabask said:

Also it's kind of hilarious that you'd post L2R considering they replacing blue diamonds with green diamonds in L2R.    In this case they're being forced to comply with South Korean government decided that the trading post mimics RMT sites and could violate gambling laws.

Did you even read full article? http://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/news/66045/lineage-2-revolution-trading-system-shut-down/

Quote

The game was originally rated Teen, but the committee changed it to Mature because of item trading system among users.

So now the problem is not the tax but trading itself. And it is not even a problem.

Warframe is already rated Mature, trading is already present in game: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis.aspx?Certificate=10000951&Title=Warframe

You are desperately trying to protect your arguments but unfortunately those has fallen long time ago. You know what is hilarious? This article was written 06-2017, yet, 9 months later we still have blue diamonds in L2R, the movie I posted is from 12-2017.

 

[Urabask]

15 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Oh so its a jargon, no wonder google doesn't know its definition because it does not exist. So that means it doesnt matter what you think neither.

Premium currency is a currency that can buy you pretty much everthing, that is the major condition of currency to be called Premium.

So now it is not the giftcard law problem but a gambling law? Seems like you don't know a thing about what you were talking about earlier, reducing your creditability close to zero.

Did you even read full article? http://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/news/66045/lineage-2-revolution-trading-system-shut-down/

So now the problem is not the tax but trading itself. And it is not even a problem.

Warframe is already rated Mature, trading is already present in game: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis.aspx?Certificate=10000951&Title=Warframe

You are desperately trying to protect your arguments but unfortunately those has fallen long time ago. You know what is hilarious? This article was written 06-2017, yet, 9 months later we still have blue diamonds in L2R, the movie I posted is from 12-2017.

 

The point I was making is that compliance with the law is not always forced immediately because it has to go through courts or government bureaucracy which can be a lengthy process.  Game devs by and large try to comply with laws even if they know they could get away with it for a while.  The extra liability is just not worth the benefits they'd reap from violating those laws.

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[Aggh]

11 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Oh so its a jargon, no wonder google doesn't know its definition because it does not exist. So that means it doesnt matter what you think neither.

Premium currency is a currency that can buy you pretty much everthing, that is the major condition of currency to be called Premium.

So now it is not the giftcard law problem but a gambling law? Seems like you don't know a thing about what you were talking about earlier, reducing your creditability close to zero.

It's a term created by the industry that makes these games and by the journalists that cover the industry.  But thanks for confirming that you're having to spend time on google to understand this conversation.  That explains a lot.

What, is your stupid suggestion only allowed to have one problem?

[Kaminariss]

5 minutes ago, Urabask said:

The point I was making is that compliance with the law is not always forced immediately because it has to go through courts or government bureaucracy which can be a lengthy process.

I am pretty sure you were dead certain DE cannot make any taxes/fees on AH back then.

In this comment:

Also this one:

So now we have an example of AH with trade tax purely in premium currency we know that this is not impossible as you suggested. While it may take lawsuits to check concepts it is pretty obvious at this point that standard AH implementation should work.

 

2 minutes ago, Aggh said:

But thanks for confirming that you're having to spend time on google to understand this conversation.  That explains a lot.

Still it didn't explain why you didn't know that. You probably still have wrong impression and think that premium currency is any currency purchasable with real money lol.

3 minutes ago, Aggh said:

What, is your stupid suggestion only allowed to have one problem?

Stupid is argument not based on any evidence, and when the definite counter-argument was provided still think you were right.

[Aggh]

11 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

I am pretty sure you were dead certain DE cannot make any taxes/fees on AH back then.

No, he was dead certain that it could be in violation of gift certificate laws.  You found one p2w mobile game that is getting away with it.  That does not mean that they don't have compliance issues or that DE couldn't have them.  The problem here is that you're suggesting that it'd be a ok for DE to upend the existing economy which already generates a lot of revenue for them supports one of the best f2p systems in the industry and hey, while they're at it they can take a chance on whether or not they're violating laws.  All to change the economy that doesn't really need to be changed.

 

11 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Still it didn't explain why you didn't know that. You probably still have wrong impression and think that premium currency is any currency purchasable with real money lol.

You are the only person here confused on what a premium currency is or is not.  It's a long standing term in the industry and no one else on this forum would ever come into this discussion and confuse it with anything other than a game currency that can only be bought with cash.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aggh

[Urabask]

13 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

I am pretty sure you were dead certain DE cannot make any taxes/fees on AH back then.

In this comment:

Also this one:

So now we have an example of AH with trade tax purely in premium currency we know that this is not impossible as you suggested. While it may take lawsuits to check concepts it is pretty obvious at this point that standard AH implementation should work.

 

Still it didn't explain why you didn't know that. You probably still have wrong impression and think that premium currency is any currency purchasable with real money lol.

Stupid is argument not based on any evidence, and when the definite counter-argument was provided still think you were right.

Because they will get nailed with a lawsuit and be forced to waste money on legal fees.

Btw, you are most definitely wrong about Premium Currency.  Ask any MMO dev what they think that is and they'll say it's their cash shop currency.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Urabask

[Kaminariss]

34 minutes ago, Aggh said:

No, he was dead certain that it could be in violation of gift certificate laws.  You found one p2w mobile game that is getting away with it.  That does not mean that they don't have compliance issues or that DE couldn't have them.

Where is your evidence? I could have ferrari in my garage, it doesnt mean I really have one. An example of a game which removed taxes from AH. Or explaination/article/quote where developers of any mmo game said they won't add tax because of law issues. 

Games that doesn't have AH or their AH has no tax is not evidence. If something was done it means it is possible.

34 minutes ago, Aggh said:

You are the only person here confused on what a premium currency is or is not. 

I am not confused, I know that premium currency is a currency that will allow me to purchase anything (that can be purchased) that is available in the game, plus it is a currency that CAN be bought by cash. A simple as that. I play a lot of "free" to play games on my mobile.

And don't tell me you werent dead sure AH cannot have tax on plat (Its a screenshot):

Its about time to admit mistake.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kaminariss

[Agent_Nine]

Yeah. definitely. i think its a great idea. 

[Urabask]

10 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Its about time to admit mistake.

Dude, you do realize that your one example of a game doing an AH tax on a premium currency is from a company that deliberately violated a law they knew their game wouldn't be in compliance with, right?

[Kaminariss]

25 minutes ago, Urabask said:

Dude, you do realize that your one example of a game doing an AH tax on a premium currency is from a company that deliberately violated a law they knew their game wouldn't be in compliance with, right?

Please, it is really time to stop. I know that it may be hard to admit after 10 pages of discussion. The only fault they did was to be rated Teen instead of Mature in South Korea. And it was not even related to tax on AH but trading overall.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kaminariss

[Urabask]

14 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Please, it is really time to stop. I know that it may be hard to admit after 10 pages of discussion. The only fault they did was to be rated Teen instead of Mature in South Korea. And it was not even related to tax on AH but trading overall.

Yes, but they KNEW that their game was in violation of the law because it was rated teen and went ahead with it anyways because they knew they would lose money if they didn't.  NCSoft released Lineage M afterwards and removed an auction house they had been advertising and their stock plummetted.  Hell, one of their executives was so certain it would plummet he dumped all his stock and got busted for insider trading. So implying as you are that Netmarble made a mistake instead of taking deliberate action is pretty disingenuous.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Urabask