Kuva in the Kuva Fortress

[Oreades]

I know this was literally just on the Dev stream and I realize the values where place holder but the mechanic already concerns me. 

The problem stems from the fact that it is a player controlled mechanic that sacrifices survivability for a potential reward. I get how that sounds great on paper but I just envision it being used to troll people on the Kuva survival missions. 

All it would really take is one person running around plugging the filters in to every possible Life Support with the intent to tank the mission, to tank the mission. I mean I guess that situation has always sorta existed in Survival where players could pop the Life Supports when you where nearly full which effectively wasted them but that at least left you with a bit of a buffer. However in this situation is kinda worse in a way because not only could they force the other players into trying to defend an indefensible number of Kuva Filter/Siphon/things but you also get zero life support from them. 

It also makes Necros pretty much required, I kinda recall hearing Ivara get tossed up but lets be honest no one is going to let Ivara Slowprowl enemies before they kill them, no one. Outside of a group of Ivaras working together to that end however group prowl was effectively removed some patches back so there is no reason to group with other Ivaras out side of maybe Spy and you aren't really prowling in spy.

 

Anyhow, it worries me that it gives players another tool to potentially actively troll a mission with. 

[Goenndyr]

I dont like the implementation at all. It makes nekros a mandatory and cuts out soloing since less spawns to play it in an efficient way.

Yes the numbers are wip but they need to be at least 750 or more per filter and the filters need to have a higher droprate to make it even an effcient play since a dedicated team of 2 players can farm quite a big amount of our current kuva and it needs to be on a higher level to make it even worth to play.

I was hoping for a mode that I can even play solo but I dont see it being played solo at all due to it not being rewarding.

[Thundervision]

In my opinion, they shouldn't balance the environment around Kuva -- they should balance the Kuva around it instead.

 

Regular Kuva Siphon missions take 5-10min at best and it's without speedrunning, for said 5-10min, without boosters, you get ~600 Kuva. There's no any kind of difficulty, you can just spend all the time in operator mode.

Regular Kuva Siphon:

• capped enemies
• predictable spawn of Kuva Grineer
• not the main objective of the mission (which means someone can complete the objective while the others deal with the Siphon)
• average time of 5 min to get ~600 Kuva
• can stop using the warframes when dealing with the Siphon

 

Endless Kuva, however, requires you to:

• survive
• maintain the O2 level
• kill stuff around you
• sacrifice Life Support capsules in order to get Kuva.
• protect the Life Support (Scorch, Hyekka, Drakgoon Gunner and Kohm Trooper say 'hi')
• dealing with Kuva Guards which will apparently scale up with the time

This is on the top of the Kuva Grineer enemies that hit like a Fomorian-powered train at like Lv.50 -- it's not even a Sortie level. And the Kuva tileset itself is pretty big and sometimes difficult to navigate (toggleable flashlights when? ).

 

If anything, it should be about 300-400 Kuva per Life Support (so doing regular Kuva Siphon would still be an option, we already have problems with Excav vs Interception vs Defense vs Survival's «time:reward» ratio, no need to make it worse), or even increasing the Kuva gain as long as you're in the mission -- similar to Endless Fissure mission mechanics.

EDIT:

I forgot to mention that if Kuva reward won't be increasing over time (like 400 within the first 15 min, then 600 within the next 15min, then 900 Kuva within the next 15min etc.), it will be the old Triton all over again: people won't even bother to stay, they will do the first rotations (capsules in our case) while the enemies are 'meh' and then just extract to start it again.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Thundervision

[(PSN)ethandismembered]

1 hour ago, Thundervision said:

In my opinion, they shouldn't balance the environment around Kuva -- they should balance the Kuva around it instead.

 

Regular Kuva Siphon missions take 5-10min at best and it's without speedrunning, for said 5-10min, without boosters, you get ~600 Kuva. There's no any kind of difficulty, you can just spend all the time in operator mode.

Regular Kuva Siphon:

• capped enemies
• predictable spawn of Kuva Grineer
• not the main objective of the mission (which means someone can complete the objective while the others deal with the Siphon)
• average time of 5 min to get ~600 Kuva
• can stop using the warframes when dealing with the Siphon

 

Endless Kuva, however, requires you to:

• survive
• maintain the O2 level
• kill stuff around you
• sacrifice Life Support capsules in order to get Kuva.
• protect the Life Support (Scorch, Hyekka, Drakgoon Gunner and Kohm Trooper say 'hi')
• dealing with Kuva Guards which will apparently scale up with the time

This is on the top of the Kuva Grineer enemies that hit like a Fomorian-powered train at like Lv.50 -- it's not even a Sortie level. And the Kuva tileset itself is pretty big and sometimes difficult to navigate (toggleable flashlights when? ).

 

If anything, it should be about 300-400 Kuva per Life Support (so doing regular Kuva Siphon would still be an option, we already have problems with Excav vs Interception vs Defense vs Survival's «time:reward» ratio, no need to make it worse), or even increasing the Kuva gain as long as you're in the mission -- similar to Endless Fissure mission mechanics.

EDIT:

I forgot to mention that if Kuva reward won't be increasing over time (like 400 within the first 15 min, then 600 within the next 15min, then 900 Kuva within the next 15min etc.), it will be the old Triton all over again: people won't even bother to stay, they will do the first rotations (capsules in our case) while the enemies are 'meh' and then just extract to start it again.

I posted something similar on reddit about the kuva fortress. Anyways regarding Kuva endless survival on the Kuva fortress, if DE decides to give 100 kuva per lifesupport converted over the course of 19 minutes and 30 seconds 13 life supports will have appeared. Assuming each one is captured and converted to a kuva tower, that's 1300 kuva over say 22 minutes and 30 seconds, lets just consider it takes a minute to get to the exit from the 13th life support. So for comparison's sake lets say either a kuva flood or a kuva node that's not a flood appears as a mobile defense that mission alone will probably take the longest out of all missions to be done, will probably take 10 minutes to complete. For a flood that's about 1300 kuva, and for a non-flood 650 kuva. With these numbers in mind, a flood is always more time efficient than the endless survival however for a non-flood mobile defense they're about even in terms of kuva efficiency. Now I consider Mobile defense as taking 10 minutes to complete if you consider it takes about 6 minutes to complete the 3 defense points, and about 2 minutes to complete the kuva siphon, if it's on the way through the mission and you don't have to go out of your way to actually find it, if you're 100% accurate in grabbing the kuva that's being siphoned, and another minute or so to get to the exit based on either an AFK player or a rather slow teammate. If I knew the timer amount for a kuva survival mission node I would compare those instead.

That being said what I'd LOVE to see happen with the Endless mission survival is for each consecutive life support tower converted into a kuva tower a bonus amount of kuva being obtained say +10 for each consecutive one. So if you activate 3 consecutively that nets you 330 kuva, the fourth one awards 130 kuva giving you 460 total kuva. Just something as a little incentive to stay in the kuva survival longer than 20 minutes, and make it slightly more rewarding.

I thought I'd do a simple test in the kuva fortress before this comes out and post my idea on how to improve the place holder numbers per life support. Though I like your numbers more than mine.