Do You Want Gunkata In The Game?

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Look at all these anime ideas.

Lets just have pokemon in warframe. So I can be like I CHOOSE YOU DETHIZARD and throw out a giant dragon made out of dethcubes to kill my enemies.

[Nihiler]

Look at all these anime ideas.

Lets just have pokemon in warframe. So I can be like I CHOOSE YOU DETHIZARD and throw out a giant dragon made out of dethcubes to kill my enemies.

 

God, don't give them more ideas. As if the "dating" mini game idea wasn't bad enough.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

God, don't give them more ideas. As if the "dating" mini game idea wasn't bad enough.

MAGU-CHAN YOU ARE KAWAII DESUKA~

 

But how would they eat their pinku bento boxes...

[Cinderain]

 still did them anyway?

 

It's Deadpool. That was kind of the point.

 

Me? I'd like more flashy gun play. We can shoot while wall-running and diving, that's basic Gunfu already. And since DE has said on many occassions that their intention with Warframe was to be more manga/anime-styled, I don't think they'd mind "anime ideas", whatever the hell those are.

 

This community is insufferable. Any new idea, addition or suggestion is drowned in tears and rage, bombarded with ignorance and the inability, or outright refusal, to think outside the box.

Edited August 12, 2013 by FatalX7

[AtenAngel]

I already have a blow.gun

You kinky boy

[Nihiler]

It's Deadpool. That was kind of the point.

 

Me? I'd like more flashy gun play. We can shoot while wall-running and diving, that's basic Gunfu already. And since DE has said on many occasions that their intention with Warframe was to be more manga/anime-styled, I don't think they'd mind "anime ideas", whatever the hell those are.

 

This community is insufferable. Any new idea, addition or suggestion is drowned in tears and rage, bombarded with ignorance and the inability, or outright refusal, to think outside the box.

 

Couple things, I don't remember anyone from DE ever saying they wanted the game to be more anime/manga styled, so I don't know where you're getting that from (actually, now that I think about it, I seem to recall Steve saying something about using a more gritty western/canadian manga style, or something akin to the Blame! or Biomega series, but those are hardly full of the overdone tropes flooding the suggestion forums). Second, if a bad idea is bad, it's gonna get destroyed. Unfortunately theres a lot of bad ideas suggested on the forums, not all of them are bad, in fact some are remarkably awesome, but there's way more people just ripping ideas straight out of anime, or other games, repeating an idea thats been suggested a hundred times, or just having terrible ideas.

 

Gunkata has a place in some games, but Warframe is too fast paced for anything like standing around shooting at a ring of bad guys to be any kind of fun, particularly when most of the current roster can just outright kill the group with the push of a button and move on in a few seconds time. As I said before, there two ways to do a "gunkata" system, either adding a button to just do it all on autopilot or getting a pair of pistols and just getting good. The first option adds no skill and just rips off an idea from a movie, the second option would ACTUALLY TAKE SKILL and can currently be done if you felt so inclined to not 'press 4' and be done with it.

[TisEric]

lol at all you negetive folks....

 

"gunkata is stupid and  not real , herp de derp"

this is a freaking video game about space ninjas in battle suits made from ancient alien pimps designs that shoot magic and crap body parts.

stop hiding behind this wall of "seriousness" or "realism" the rule of cool is what drives this game so far.

 

gunkata is an efficient way to maximize your kill rate in a close quarters senario.

its effective as an idea , something  idk a SAPCE NINJA DEATH MACHINE might be proficiant at considering we fight 90% indoors / hallways.

but you can also use the older gunkata styles which include melee as part of your effective kill range.

fast combination of slashing moves for close range damage and guns fire to cover your flanks.

 

 

all in all this would be a fantastic addition to the midiocre combat we have, in the very least it might look awesome.

 

rule of cool people, rule. of. cool.

Edited August 12, 2013 by TisEric

[Cinderain]

standing around shooting at a ring of bad guys to be any kind of fun

 

They've talked about it in live streams and interviews. Aside from taking art influence from anime such as Neon Genesis Evangelion, their goal was to make Warframe manga/anime-styled in general.

 

standing around shooting at a ring of bad guys to be any kind of fun

 

You just proved my point about ignorance and not thinking outside of the box. Who ever said anything about standing around and not doing anything else? Gun Kata is acrobatic/gymnastic gunplay. That encompasses a bit more than standing around.

 

It's a video game. We're futuristic space ninja with high-powered exoarmor. We can wall-run, dive and mantle. It's a pretty important aspect of the game, they've gone out of their way to advertise it. Expand on it.

Edited August 12, 2013 by FatalX7

[Nihiler]

They've talked about it in live streams and interviews. Aside from taking art influence from anime such as Neon Genesis Evangelion, their goal was to make Warframe manga/anime-styled in general.

 

 

You just proved my point about ignorance and not thinking outside of the box. Who ever said anything about standing around and not doing anything else? Gun Kata is acrobatic/gymnastic gunplay. That encompasses a bit more than standing around.

 

It's a video game. We're futuristic space ninja with high-powered exoarmor. We can wall-run, dive and mantle. It's a pretty important aspect of the game, they've gone out of their way to advertise it. Expand on it.

 

 

And I said you can already do that with some pistols and some skill. Before you go around calling people ignorant maybe you should learn to read. What exactly, outside of current game systems, do you think would be required for someone who ISN'T a scrub to do this? Like you said, we have wall running and and more than a few gymnastic moves, so aside from an auto targeting skill crutch what would you need to do this, that isn't in the game already with a little skill? I've explained why i don't think the idea would work, the game is too fast paced, and having a room clearing ability on almost every frame makes it a waste of time. Explain to me, without standing on the "devs said blah blah blah" excuse why this idea would work, and not be redundant or superfluous in the current gameplay landscape, and maybe you'll actually make a good case. Calling people ignorant is hardly a way to win people over to your cause. 

[notlamprey]

First, I don't think it's fair for people to arbitrarily dismiss the idea of Gun Kata as "trash that doesn't belong in their game experience." It's an idea that could be pretty easily made to work with the game's current direction.

Intuition tells me that it would probably be more successful as an addition to the Dojo than a full-on combat mechanic. My main reason for saying that is that the the "fun factor" of executing Gun Kata combat arts on actual enemies would be very, very hard to deliver.

First, how would a player initiate that kind of attack?

*Quick-time event? - Personally, I'd like to keep any explicit quick-time elements out of standard mission play.

*Standard key press, like abilities? - It wouldn't compare in practicality, and you'd also introduce the problem of needing an energy system for this new power to run on.

*With a "Combo Point" system? - Weirdly enough, I kinda like this idea. Hear me out. "Skilled gunplay" like chain headshots, regular cumulative kills and speed kills, could add energy to this new system. Amass enough points, and you'd see a HUD indicator telling you that you can now unleash this "Weapons Free" mode. Hit the button, and good stuff happens! Exactly what good stuff would be up for debate. It could be a boost to squad weapon damage/fire rate, X number of auto-aimed, sparkly one-shot enemy kills... there are lots of options here. You could even make the "Weapons Free" effect unique to each Warframe. Actually, that might be the best way to go.

I could expand on this concept more, but that probably deserves its own thread. For now, I'll switch to how Gun Kata might fit into the Dojo.

This part is pretty straightforward - we already have obstacle courses. Let's warm up our reflexes and test our skill with a target course! These already exist all over the place in the real world, and they're a lot of fun.

For people who haven't seen these, here's the basic idea: (sorry for potato quality)

[TisEric]

And I said you can already do that with some pistols and some skill. Before you go around calling people ignorant maybe you should learn to read. What exactly, outside of current game systems, do you think would be required for someone who ISN'T a scrub to do this? Like you said, we have wall running and and more than a few gymnastic moves, so aside from an auto targeting skill crutch what would you need to do this, that isn't in the game already with a little skill? I've explained why i don't think the idea would work, the game is too fast paced, and having a room clearing ability on almost every frame makes it a waste of time. Explain to me, without standing on the "devs said blah blah blah" excuse why this idea would work, and not be redundant or superfluous in the current gameplay landscape, and maybe you'll actually make a good case. Calling people ignorant is hardly a way to win people over to your cause. 

 

fast paced gameplay is your argument?

 

 

well here is my counter argument :

 

this game isnt very fast paced.

it might look that way  when you have  decked out loki, ash with maxed out weapons.

but that is curtainly not the case for 99% of this game.

most frames either have low shields or slow moving speed resulting in a standstill in most rooms unless you burn ulties.

you have non stop spawning endless streams of enemies pining you down.

most begginers to mid level players will stick to cover and pop out skills bufore doing much of that gunplay that is extreamly static.

hell the meta game is  defence issions where you stand around a location spamming the 4 key or just shooting while  standing still.

 

 

sure, we can do lots of acrobatic stuff, non of which benefit your aim whatsoever.

wall running , air surfing , flips and rolls do not aid your gunplay but only hinder you.

doing any of the jump , shoot combos result in a very short amount of air time where you cant really do much.

 

 

while you have a point of some kind in your argument there, its not a valid reason to shutdown this idea at all.

this will be another way for you to do stuff with the gunplay and or melee if you choose to, i bet.

 

here's something you forgot we have, BLOCKING .

looks cool ,does nothing. this is one of many things the game has for no reason what so ever, it just looks cool as S#&$.

and that's the best kind of argument you can have for this and all future mechanics/idea.

it looks cool and it fits with the overall esthetic design of this game so there is no reason to not have it as a mechanic.

[Rivy]

It could work as an ultimate power for a ballistic-themed warframe I guess.

[Nihiler]

fast paced gameplay is your argument?

 

 

well here is my counter argument :

 

this game isnt very fast paced.

it might look that way  when you have  decked out loki, ash with maxed out weapons.

but that is curtainly not the case for 99% of this game.

most frames either have low shields or slow moving speed resulting in a standstill in most rooms unless you burn ulties.

you have non stop spawning endless streams of enemies pining you down.

most begginers to mid level players will stick to cover and pop out skills bufore doing much of that gunplay that is extreamly static.

hell the meta game is  defence issions where you stand around a location spamming the 4 key or just shooting while  standing still.

 

 

sure, we can do lots of acrobatic stuff, non of which benefit your aim whatsoever.

wall running , air surfing , flips and rolls do not aid your gunplay but only hinder you.

doing any of the jump , shoot combos result in a very short amount of air time where you cant really do much.

 

 

while you have a point of some kind in your argument there, its not a valid reason to shutdown this idea at all.

this will be another way for you to do stuff with the gunplay and or melee if you choose to, i bet.

 

here's something you forgot we have, BLOCKING .

looks cool ,does nothing. this is one of many things the game has for no reason what so ever, it just looks cool as S#&$.

and that's the best kind of argument you can have for this and all future mechanics/idea.

it looks cool and it fits with the overall esthetic design of this game so there is no reason to not have it as a mechanic.

 

My main argument was that you can blow away a room full of guys by pressing 4 on 90% of the frames, and on everyone else you can just gottagofast away from them. I also mentioned how with some skill and a some pistols, the gunkata idea is redundant. I'm not saying that the entire game revolves around going fast, but the only level of play where an autoaim acrobatic gun show would really be of any use would be low level play in a game that already has a lot of low level gameplay options, too many under explained systems, and a grind that weeds out all but the patient or spendy. You bring up blocking and how its useless, well, I have no argument against that. It is useless right now, and adding in game mechanics just "to look cool" while being completely useless isn't a good use of dev time when theres a lot more things they should be working on. Using that to justify ideas that again, with some skill, can already be done in game is a poor argument for a feature. Ash's bladestorm looks cool now, but it takes 5 times as long to execute as any other super ability, and in the "defence meta", that time can mean the difference between clearing the wave, and losing. Again, explain to me how this would make the game better, and improve long term gameplay, and what systems you would need in place to do this. Just saying "Gunkata is cool and should like it because its cool" doesn't help anyone understand what it is you want to be added to the game, aside from an auto aim and some new animations. 

[Hitomo]

Me? I'd like more flashy gun play. We can shoot while wall-running and diving, that's basic Gunfu already.

 

 

words of wisdom

 

I can see why you're a fan of the Devil May Cry series.

Personally, I'm more of a Dark Souls/Demon's Souls fan.

 

I hope this is not an intended pun ^^

 

btw. if you Play dark.souls on PC go to the Nexus, get DSFix and the Dark.Slayer.UI.mod I made for this game

 

regards

[Cinderain]

It could work as an ultimate power for a ballistic-themed warframe I guess.

 

That would be fantabulous.

 

*snippity snip*

 

Being able to just aim and shoot well isn't Gun Kata. Why do I want Gun Kata? Because it's a video game and it'd be fun.

 

Also, try thinking further outside the box. No one said anything about auto-aiming either. There's no reason to not expand upon the game's mechanics, or would you rather just have even more room-exploding number 4's? 'Cause that's real unique and compelling.

Edited August 12, 2013 by FatalX7

[EnzoVulkoor]

Couple things, I don't remember anyone from DE ever saying they wanted the game to be more anime/manga styled, so I don't know where you're getting that from (actually, now that I think about it, I seem to recall Steve saying something about using a more gritty western/canadian manga style, or something akin to the Blame! or Biomega series, but those are hardly full of the overdone tropes flooding the suggestion forums). Second, if a bad idea is bad, it's gonna get destroyed. Unfortunately theres a lot of bad ideas suggested on the forums, not all of them are bad, in fact some are remarkably awesome, but there's way more people just ripping ideas straight out of anime, or other games, repeating an idea thats been suggested a hundred times, or just having terrible ideas.

 

Gunkata has a place in some games, but Warframe is too fast paced for anything like standing around shooting at a ring of bad guys to be any kind of fun, particularly when most of the current roster can just outright kill the group with the push of a button and move on in a few seconds time. As I said before, there two ways to do a "gunkata" system, either adding a button to just do it all on autopilot or getting a pair of pistols and just getting good. The first option adds no skill and just rips off an idea from a movie, the second option would ACTUALLY TAKE SKILL and can currently be done if you felt so inclined to not 'press 4' and be done with it.

 They mentioned in one the interviews awhile ago that they were Guyver fans.

That the idea of a bio suit (Frame) came from Guyver.

 

We have Excalibur as a sword based frame.

Why can't we have a gun based one?

We already have bows which are charge based firing similar to melee's mechanic of charge for more damage.

Why not allow a gun to have that too.

[TisEric]

My main argument was that you can blow away a room full of guys by pressing 4 on 90% of the frames, and on everyone else you can just gottagofast away from them. I also mentioned how with some skill and a some pistols, the gunkata idea is redundant. I'm not saying that the entire game revolves around going fast, but the only level of play where an autoaim acrobatic gun show would really be of any use would be low level play in a game that already has a lot of low level gameplay options, too many under explained systems, and a grind that weeds out all but the patient or spendy. You bring up blocking and how its useless, well, I have no argument against that. It is useless right now, and adding in game mechanics just "to look cool" while being completely useless isn't a good use of dev time when theres a lot more things they should be working on. Using that to justify ideas that again, with some skill, can already be done in game is a poor argument for a feature. Ash's bladestorm looks cool now, but it takes 5 times as long to execute as any other super ability, and in the "defence meta", that time can mean the difference between clearing the wave, and losing. Again, explain to me how this would make the game better, and improve long term gameplay, and what systems you would need in place to do this. Just saying "Gunkata is cool and should like it because its cool" doesn't help anyone understand what it is you want to be added to the game, aside from an auto aim and some new animations. 

 

you are making too many assumptions my friend.

yes, the game features an aray of ways to effectivly neuter the enemy numbers.

ti's a simptom of poorly implemented A.I. and an overall loose definition of balance.

this is all subject to change.

 

the pistol statment you mention is but a gimped version of what gunkata is.

right now we got just a little bit of finess with the ability to shoot while doing some stuff, its not desgined for it and it shows.

it doesnt make the idea redundant id say its all a nice set up for a mechanic like this.

 

 

no one wants auto aim, whats the point? i personally would like a mode where you could activate based on your stamina perhaps.

when you activate it your character will do a new set of animations that trigger upon succesful hits on weak points or heads.

effectivly giving you a nice  show for your skills to pull off those animations on command.

this will give some sort of benefit to you , maybe more xp? more afinity?  maybe have time slow down a bit while you shoot for the extra cool factor.

 

but the actions themselves are yet to be determined.

 

now, the cool vs useless argument....

its useless if you choose it to be useless.

blocking is useless right now but it has the cool factor , now give the devs the time to make it work and BAM you got a neat mechanic that is also cool. filling the game with working but generic stuff wont  help anyone, people wont care and move on to the next thing on the f2p list.

cool idea = cool mechanic = find its niche = becomes useful with time.

 

true the cool vs usefull argument could be made that the devs have better things to do.

i  totaly agree with you, devs should first and formost focus on the core mechanics and the bugs.

BUT not every dev works on those things and not every team has work to do.

cool things like the "hook shot" we found out was in testing, thats a toaly cool and game breaking item.

but its being looked at by the guys that have less work load on their hands.

do the same thing with this and other cool ideas, give them to the other guys to test abit see if they can manage to work it in gracefuly.

 

 

now ash, ash is not a defense meta frame.

his kit is built for single target \ solo missions or stealth when they actully implament that.

he is a poor choice for an example in your case.

 but ok, lets take ash, he has a very long rather weak ultimate ability. true.

but it works for him in a mission where multiple layers of enemies are on screen or around him.

thats his shtick, he is a niche frame to be honest.

 

same thing can be said for gunkata , its a niche mechanic for those who are willing to leran it for it to be effective.

unlike most things we have that are just *press button to kill every thing*

 

 

now how can i claim this kinda mechanic would help long term?  adds cool factor to atract more players , gives noobies a show if a veteran palyer is around. gives veterans the ability to master a skill . this seriously has no downside after the initial learning curve for it.

this game has issies with over abundance of things to teach and no way to teach em, soon to be fixed issue i take it.

make the gunkata  a mode, or just be the normal way to combo guns and melee or just a combination of moves that translate to it.

anything might work.

 

redundant? it is not.

[Love2Camp]

It could work as an ultimate power for a ballistic-themed warframe I guess.

That's my first thought as well.. If Banshee can stand still and makes waves, what's to stop a different frame from standing still and wave some guns around? Not to mention how warframes have SHIELDS, something movie-gunkata users usually don't have.

And really, claiming GunKata is unrealistic is abit odd, when it's proposed for a game that's "ninjas in space".. 

 

Should check out some of the powers in Champions Online, got some awesome gunkata moves there ^^

(Lead Tempest, Bullet Beatdown and Breakaway Shot more specifically).

Edited August 12, 2013 by Love2Camp

[Cinderain]

That's my first thought as well.. If Banshee can stand still and makes waves, what's to stop a different frame from standing still and wave some guns around? Not to mention how warframes have SHIELDS, something movie-gunkata users usually don't have.

And really, claiming GunKata is unrealistic is abit odd, when it's proposed for a game that's "ninjas in space".. 

 

Should check out some of the powers in Champions Online, got some awesome gunkata moves there ^^

 

The Dual Pistol skills in DC Universe Online are my favorite. I didn't play Champions Online for very long so I don't know about it's gun... heck I didn't remember that it even had any. In DCUO, I like to play on my room mate's character, stand in the middle of the street and shoot in random directions and blow up cars.

Edited August 12, 2013 by FatalX7

[Love2Camp]

Right, forgot about DCUO, those skills are awesome as aswell :D

[Best_Tiger]

Least.

Favorite.

Topic.

Ever.

Please keep gun katas as far away from Warframe as conceptually possible.

[Cinderain]

Least.

Favorite.

Topic.

Ever.

Please keep gun katas as far away from Warframe as conceptually possible.

 

You've provided such a compelling, well-thought-out argument.

[Vilemyre]

ff8 anybody? wouldn't mind seeing a gunblade on here.

No! Knifegun!

 

[Aspari]

You've provided such a compelling, well-thought-out argument.

I only wanted opinions.

[Cinderain]

I only wanted opinions.

 

Opinions are great. Opinions that are accompanied with support instead of just being hastily spit out are even better. But it's not my thread. Let the party continue!