Warframes unbalanced by concept.

[angias]

This is at the same time simple and complicated.

Defense/offense ability/stats have the same effect with different result, it serve you to kill enemy faster than they can kill you. 

The problem lies in optimisation.

•Boosting defense will allow to outlast the enemy by a long marge.

•Boosting offense will allow to kill the enemy before he start to attack you.

The differences between the two is acceptable because offense is directed by skill, it's has rewarding has it is unforgiving. 

Then we have area of effect and auto target.

Area of effect is usually weaker and will affect all enemy in his range. Harder to exploit.

Auto target will have stronger stats but will affect only a few or one enemy at the time. Easier to exploit.

In the casual game by default defense is a better pick, since your weapon give all the damage you need, but once optimised most auto target and area effect offensive ability become so efficient that the squad can't keep up. (In casual difficulty)

But that is fine. Why? Because that is not the role of defense utility and cc.

Offense start to have a hard time in endgame and falls in unusable before defense. The efficacity of utility and cc isn't affected by mission difficulty, this is fair and completely broken.

[Urlan]

12 minutes ago, angias said:

This is at the same time simple and complicated.

Defense/offense ability/stats have the same effect with different result, it serve you to kill enemy faster than they can kill you. 

The problem lies in optimisation.

•Boosting defense will allow to outlast the enemy by a long marge.

•Boosting offense will allow to kill the enemy before he start to attack you.

The differences between the two is acceptable because offense is directed by skill, it's has rewarding has it is unforgiving. 

Then we have area of effect and auto target.

Area of effect is usually weaker and will affect all enemy in his range. Harder to exploit.

Auto target will have stronger stats but will affect only a few or one enemy at the time. Easier to exploit.

In the casual game by default defense is a better pick, since your weapon give all the damage you need, but once optimised most auto target and area effect offensive ability become so efficient that the squad can't keep up. (In casual difficulty)

But that is fine. Why? Because that is not the role of defense utility and cc.

Offense start to have a hard time in endgame and falls in unusable before defense. The efficacity of utility and cc isn't affected by mission difficulty, this is fair and completely broken.

You will find that enemies have unlimited scaling and players do not. We can't auto target, but perhaps you are speaking of area effect abilities that hit everyone within their range? Similar one might say to Eximus, several bosses, and other special foes - several enemies also even have tracking shots with weapons that do not have tracking for players. Enemies have infinite scaling, so while a well modded player will excell and outclass like leveled enemies, that will not last as their plateau is reached while enemies just need to last another wave or two, a few more minutes, or until the next trigger to raise their levels and thus their huge stats.

[angias]

il y a 3 minutes, Urlan a dit :

You will find that enemies have unlimited scaling and players do not. We can't auto target, but perhaps you are speaking of area effect abilities that hit everyone within their range? Similar one might say to Eximus, several bosses, and other special foes - several enemies also even have tracking shots with weapons that do not have tracking for players. Enemies have infinite scaling, so while a well modded player will excell and outclass like leveled enemies, that will not last as their plateau is reached while enemies just need to last another wave or two, a few more minutes, or until the next trigger to raise their levels and thus their huge stats.

I was talking about unbalance between warframe and why their kit and role that come frome it, make it fair.

I might have brough the subject in the completely wrong way.

In short optimisation and maximisation of offensive ability break the flow of casual game.

Thanks god we don't scale endlesly, the power of offensive ability would become ridiculous.

the problem is bringing an advanced build on early casual game.

This behavior lead alot of new player to think some ability are just unfair or broken while the same ability will be decent 20 lvl above, that lead to a nerf mentality wich address the wrong problem, wich is not balance but scaling.

There is so much incentive to rush early mission that strong player will often ruins the experience of new and casual player.

This unfairness and nerf mentality mostly target offensive frame ability.

[Urlan]

29 minutes ago, angias said:

I was talking about unbalance between warframe and why their kit and role that come frome it, make it fair.

I might have brough the subject in the completely wrong way.

In short optimisation and maximisation of offensive ability break the flow of casual game.

Thanks god we don't scale endlesly, the power of offensive ability would become ridiculous.

the problem is bringing an advanced build on early casual game.

This behavior lead alot of new player to think some ability are just unfair or broken while the same ability will be decent 20 lvl above, that lead to a nerf mentality wich address the wrong problem, wich is not balance but scaling.

There is so much incentive to rush early mission that strong player will often ruins the experience of new and casual player.

This unfairness and nerf mentality mostly target offensive frame ability.

I don't think you understand, for "balance" nothing can scale infinitely unless everything does. Thus Balance. I would figure the game is made the way it is deliberately to allow for both sneaky and fragile non-team players and semi durable tanks that try to assist their team - either through taking fire or enhancing the survival of allies for example, Oberon or Frost. Our powers for damage are mostly none issues outside of being already in overkill ranges of level differences (our mod points to enemy levels). There is nothing wrong in such a situation of being in overkill area on an early planets - as that is the result of making players power plateau while still having elements of progression. In a truly balanced system, you would either have all sides using the same possible options of scaling or no scaling at all. There really isn't a middle ground there, what instead we have is making it work for its intent which we can only surmise from the game-play and devstreams, or through guesswork, which many threads like doing. Our abilities are quite damaging and impressive if you are using them on foes around the same mod point level or lower - basic starchart stuff essentially - because anything higher pushes the player either into finding that Grineer really have the Elite power with their scaling abilities, damage, and durability or that weapons are the real way you are supposed to explore everything - violently if possible - and abilities are for clearing chaff or crowd control.