Fundamentally Different Missions, Or Why The Grineer Commander Bug Was A Good Thing.

[TemetNosce]

When I got onto Warframe today after doing my patching and taking some time to look through the forums, reading the patch notes and Livestream summary I found myself strangely hopeful and anticipating killing a normal base unit - namely Grineer Commanders. I'd remained somewhat optimistic since their Orokin Cell drops hadn't been mentioned as being removed, but after a check of Epimetheus I found they were gone as well. As I sat waiting for the low mastery players to reach the exit, I turned over in my mind why I enjoyed hunting them so much, and after thinking it through I decided it might deserve a thread. Regardless, here are some thoughts on some simple things that could make the game more enjoyable.

 

Hunting : One of the things I realized about my enjoyment here was that part of it was in finding the enemy. You still had a minimap, and you still knew where to go for the exit, but ultimately locating the commanders was part science, and part art. Certain locations seemed more likely to result in an encounter than others, sometimes going backwards could produce more results than going forward. It resulted in a situation where the normal rules for efficiency no longer applied, you operated in a way that was substantially different from the normal mode, and relied on intuition and deduction rather than simply following the giant ! or waiting at a defense point. As a rule it felt much more like it promoted player action than the traditional goals.

 

Lateral rewards : There's a very specific way that Warframe works with rewards. You complete a goal, you get handed a single reward, generally randomized, and run to the exit. The Commander bug broke this mold, you knew going in what you were looking to get, and you were getting it at a rate determined by how good you were at finding them. You didn't exit until you wanted to, since the enemies could continue to spawn.

 

Initiative : I sort of covered this in both of the above sections, but I wanted to call it out specifically - fundamentally the difference between this style of game play and the normal game was that it was player motivated. You felt like it was a result of your own decisions and actions.

 

As a note about the last part, I think that this is partially where Warframe goes wrong - it has to a substantial degree offered equalized results rather than equalized opportunity. Player input does not on the whole have enough impact. I think that fixing this would go a long way towards increasing the long term play value of the game.

 

 

[CrazyCanadian24]

Amazing what a simple little glitch can change, isn't it?

[notlamprey]

I spent some time hunting Commanders as well (for REASONS), and I came away with the same conclusions you made.

"Hunting" these bugged Commanders was fun and interesting. I hope that DE takes a little time to look over the player response to glitches like this one. They seem really good about keeping an open mind when it comes to learning from the bumps and bruises, and this particular stnank may yet lead to some really good ideas.

[neKroMancer]

I think this glitch did produce an interesting result.

The commander hunting was a small part which make player enjoy the mission more than usual. They had guaranteed drop of mod and resource and that make player actively looking for them and kill them. The game suddenly became more fruitful than usual.

I think extend this glitch as a feature and buff these elite units will make the game more interesting as a dungeon crawler genre.

[Grilleds]

Grineer Commanders only spawn in a select few missions on each system, usually in missions that most people avoid due to being mission types people don't like playing. Because of that, I'd like to see them be a rare enemy that is nearly guranteed to drop something good each time. However if he would fit that role, I'd also like to seem them get slightly buffed as well seeing as how they are currently the easiest of the heavy Grineer to deal with, even with their Switch Teleport.

[Tazmanyak]

I did two "commanders hunt" missions, on Earth i think ...
i spent 45 to 60 min in each one, just because i had too much fun going back and running all around in hope for one of them to appear!

It was fun, it really was ^^

[TheHeraldXII]

Really what we should take from this is that miniboss "hit squads" from the faction we're fighting which drops goodies would be an amazing addition to the game.

[Boatsniper]

This is a really good idea.

 

But there's one problem.

 

DE doesn't care.

[ZyloWolfzan]

I think the main reason why this glitch was so popular was because it was less 'grind/rush same thing over and over again with no deviation', and more 'Go around, explore, PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN WHILE STILL BEING REWARDED!', which is IMPORTANT, and is very nice, because it actually rewards you for playing the game and having fun doing it, it let you mess around, you didn't have to bring the best of the best missions, you didn't have to follow the exact predetermined route, you didn't have to just complete an objective then be done and start again. It was still a grind, technically, but it was actually a fun one, and one that let YOU determine when to leave, and when to stay, it let you decide where to go, and what to do, it let you just mess around and have a bit of fun. It was nice, and let you just enjoy the gameplay of Warframe, while STILL making progress and being rewarded. I did about four or five runs against these Commanders(Needed to get Neurodes for my Twin Gremlins), and I actually enjoyed it, I might even do it again, even though I won't be getting rewarded for it.

 

Really, Warframe's biggest issue is it is terrified of itself, using the Free to Play model makes a lot of games do this where they will just pile on hours upon hours of grinding and work for the players to do, in an effort to keep them playing for as long as possible, while offering paid options in an effort to try and get players to pay money to skip all that time, which is basically just filler. Warframe is a very solid game, with very fun gameplay, and it REALLY doesn't need anywhere close to as much grinding and filler as it puts in. Sadly, the Free to Play model is done this way by everyone, because it's the only way many companies can keep funding their game.

 

signed I really hope that DE can find a way to change this formula, or at least make the grinding and filler actually fun.

Zylo the Wolfbane

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

This is a really good idea.

 

But there's one problem.

 

DE doesn't care.

 

Based on the number of things that they've done to make the players happy, I highly doubt that. This game is their baby, naturally they don't want to make it a cake-walk, but at the same time, they're definitely open to suggestions.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Hap-muhr

[DavidSPD]

 

Really, Warframe's biggest issue is it is terrified of itself, using the Free to Play model makes a lot of games do this where they will just pile on hours upon hours of grinding and work for the players to do, in an effort to keep them playing for as long as possible, while offering paid options in an effort to try and get players to pay money to skip all that time, which is basically just filler.

 

 

This is what MMOs are. Warframe may not be an MMO per-se but it's a similar business model. They require long-term commitment and investment from players to keep pumping out content. Meanwhile the players complain not enough is being done. The base game they came into took YEARS to make, and they want content created ten times faster than it can be, so devs have to pile filler into their games to keep people doing... SOMETHING while the substantial content is still in the works. Reusing assets, increasing difficulty curve etc.

 

Maintaining player count is important because players are content for one another. Regardless of what people are doing the more people in the "possible party pool" makes the game last longer. People playing alone may be bored of doing "boss runs" but if someone on their friends list says, "Hey, we're on Skype and gonna do some Vor runs, you in?" And suddenly the same monotonous chore is fun due to friendly banter etc.

 

Warframe is a great game with solid design, but their own generosity with drops, item availability may be their downfall. I have several months of gameplay and I have paid maybe ten dollars into the game to get extra warframe slots and color palettes. Everything else I have earned for free. I have earned a couple dozen formas, gotten five warframes. I have also unlocked almost the entire star chart solo. Only a couple more planets to go (Phobos and one of the level 60 planets). Other MMOs I would have likely spent one hundred dollars or more and probably would have stopped playing by now due to boredom.

 

This is one of the fundamental flaws of MMOs and games with MMO-like content creation. Players get through the content, get bored and complain nothing is being done and/or there is nothing to do. I have been playing games like this for six or so years, and if there's one thing I've learned it's that this stuff takes time to make, and there is nothing wrong with putting a game down and coming back to it months later when you have something to do again.

 

Burning yourself out on online games usually decreases the quality of the forums dramatically, and that's really not good for anybody.

Edited August 15, 2013 by DavidSPD