Not Feeling The Co-Op

[Sushin]

I've played for a good 24ish hours total and the feeling of the co-op is severely lacking in my opinion. In fact, I much prefer playing alone or with a single friend on Skype.

 

Whenever I play a 4 player game with random players, I feel like there is no unity or need for unity. Sure we help each other out when necessary and mark mods for each other, but everyone is acting completely independent of each other and 0 team work is necessary. It feels like everyone is competing among each other to get the most kills.

Quite often players get separated from the main group (often a higher level player/farmer) and clears the entire level out while rushing towards the objective, and after the rest of the team is dealing with a mob he left behind, they move their way to the objective in a wake of stragglers and ammo drops. What's the point of a team in a scenario like this?

 

I'd really like to see this game take tips from other team based games like Left 4 Dead, which forces team work in a number of ways, specifically obvious through several of the infected zombies that immobilize the player. I can see it being tough since single player mode is still important, but the uselessness of other teams is a real put off.

I'd also like to see a 2 and 3 player cap on missions if the player chooses. The more people there are, the less individual responsibility there is, and therefor, less team work. It's hard to get strangers to cooperate but if there are only 2 then it's less of a mosh pit and it's easier to coordinate.

 

TLDR

-No sense of teamwork with multiple players

-Farmers or speed runners easily lower quality for the rest of the players.

-Suggestion: Make it harder for players to solo in missions with 2 or more players, besides by adding more health to enemies.

-Suggestion: Allow a user designated player capacity on missions for more responsibility per player and more team unity.

 

Also, in case anyone wants to say "in the later levels it's really hard not to co-op missions," I really don't care if that's true or not because I've played up to level 25+ missions  and by now I would like to see some required unity among team mates, but that just can't happen if the only thing that is unifying them is enemies with more health and attack power. Players shouldn't have to play 24+ hours for teamwork to kick in.

[RawGritz]

the teamwork is what you make it. Vortex to suck up a cluster of enemies + send in Anitmatter drop + t-mates shooting antimatter is good teamwork. Ash loaded down with Tesla balls just before his Bladestorm ability is activated... That's great stuff...and hilarious too.

 

The team shooting through Volt's shoots shield to get electricity damage is also good tw. But like all good things. You gotta work at it. Use the in-game voice chat. Meet up with like-minded folks in the global chat and on the forums.

 

If you work at it, you'd be surprised the amount of synergy the various powers have with each other. 

 

I'd like to add. T3 Defense is great fun if you can coordinate well, especially using the lasers.

Edited August 17, 2013 by RawGritz

[ImTheBlack1]

My advice you be to search the forums for a relatively large clan (40+ players) where most players don't rush the game. People always rush extermination missions because they are often trying to farm something as fast as possible. Who wouldn't right?

I do wish the game forced co-op a bit more, but I really really enjoy soloing too. so until a different system is brought up, I wouldn't change a thing.

[ssh83]

The farmer mindset and play style really does cause the game to lose some immersion/fun factor.  I also agree that there is way too many levels to grind through in this game.  This is especially boring/annoying when most of the levels are basically the same things repeated over and over, and extra horrible when most of the "playing" is just running through the same corridors as fast as possible toward point A, extractions, or looking for some random out-of-the-way enemy in extermination.

 

However, I think it is very good that they don't require co-op as much as you want them to.   If I want to fail missions over and over because of some pug moron can't follow direction or do simple gimmick tasks, there is no shortage of existing MMO to torture myself with.  However, I think the nightmare mode has potential to bring in on-demand challenge for well-coordinated groups.  That's something I would like to see myself, but forced co-op is dumb unless the game has perfect-match making or block idiots from queuing. lol

[MoustacheMike]

I know the feeling, and that's why I don't really play with randoms.
The clan are usually on teamspeak and my friend and I on razer comm.
The communication change everything specially on defence mission when you can synchro the skills and have X to guard a specific point. 
Yeah I know there's an ig voice chat but no one use it, another UI to integrate it better could help and more interaction with the warframe as well.

[neKroMancer]

To be honest, if the game that labelled itself as coop-TPS requires players to find their own like-minded group to play with then it has some serious issues with game design. The game itself should incentivize/force players to cooperate by design. Solo players have to be moderately skilled in order to survive. The current EXP system is a good example but it's not enough.

Map design and mob spawn also favor farming/rushing. There is no reason to stop and killing enemies along the path since they don't have guarantee drop in mod and material. I really like the recent glitch that Grineer Commander had drop table for Sargus Ruk and dropped BP/mat/mod upon dead. Players did have incentive to stop and kill something every now and then.

While I agree that finding like-minded players is one way to solve the problem, I don't think that this method is a good solution. It just give some time for DE to solve the problem.

[TheHeraldXII]

Yeah, the co-op potential is lacking in general and nearly nonexistant outside of Mobile/Defense and Rescue. There's no real reason to play with other people other than to make the game easier. Team play isn't rewarded, ability synergy is rare, the ability to have one guy clear an entire room full of enemies is kinda counterproductive to a co-op experience.

Sure, you can emply teamwork, it certainly is possible, but it isn't really any more helpful than doubling the damage on your gun and halving your damage taken in most cases. The kind of teamwork that gets used is usually pretty unengaging because tactical thinking is unnecessary, combos aren't really much better than what that one guy could do and the game mechanics simply reward having everyone acting independently.

In the example of a guy above, you can Vortex a group into an M-Prime burst, why not just do one or the other, both skills already pretty much overcome the encounter on their own, comboing them is funny but not useful. Sticking Teslas to an Ash before using Bladestorm. Why not just throw a bunch of Teslas to a prime location and have the Ash Bladestorm seperately? Bladestorm should be able to kill guys already, Teslas can kill guys already, having them both kill the same guys is wasted overlap and makes both of the skills less effective. 

Most skills don't synergise, they compete. Most of the time it's more effective to play as if you're solo and just avoid getting on your teammate's "turf". Even on defense maps.

[VER1]

Unspoken rule:-

Get the most kills and compete in any other way you can to be the 'best'.

 

This is the way many warframe players are playing every mission.

Doesn't matter of the Mastery Rank.

 

It's why you have probably come across some mastery rank 7+ with dual zorens or fangs making sure they are ahead at all times to get the most kills and get everything first.

They can indeed solo the whole mission themselves but it's not fun for them.

They need to join a lobby with other players and compete to feel like they are the 'best' by killing the most, taking down the objective by themselves and getting to the extraction first.

This is even if none of them are trying to compete with one another.

 

It's all intentional for them to solo the mission as if none of you are there.

 

Best option is to join a clan which does not promote this competitive behavior and learn to solo as well.

Also when in a clan communicate and be one of those players who arrange missions to benefit other players in the clan.

[TunaMayo]

You might not want to hear it, but join a clan. More communication is guaranteed and you feel more like a team.

[Ryjeon]

The only time I really felt a sense of teamwork and being on "operation" was during zero-shields nightmare mode. Me and the other pugs naturally proceeded in careful formation during those missions. We made sure to clear as we moved and fortified our position when we were attacked from the rear. It was glorious.  I love situations like that.

 

Most players don't want to play with any chance of failure though. It's all about min-maxing and farming. That's what games are about for them. For me games are about creating and progressing through interesting situations. Compelling co-op situations are in the game, but they can be hard to find.

[RawGritz]

Yeah, the co-op potential is lacking in general and nearly nonexistant outside of Mobile/Defense and Rescue. There's no real reason to play with other people other than to make the game easier. Team play isn't rewarded, ability synergy is rare, the ability to have one guy clear an entire room full of enemies is kinda counterproductive to a co-op experience.

Sure, you can emply teamwork, it certainly is possible, but it isn't really any more helpful than doubling the damage on your gun and halving your damage taken in most cases. The kind of teamwork that gets used is usually pretty unengaging because tactical thinking is unnecessary, combos aren't really much better than what that one guy could do and the game mechanics simply reward having everyone acting independently.

In the example of a guy above, you can Vortex a group into an M-Prime burst, why not just do one or the other, both skills already pretty much overcome the encounter on their own, comboing them is funny but not useful. Sticking Teslas to an Ash before using Bladestorm. Why not just throw a bunch of Teslas to a prime location and have the Ash Bladestorm seperately? Bladestorm should be able to kill guys already, Teslas can kill guys already, having them both kill the same guys is wasted overlap and makes both of the skills less effective. 

Most skills don't synergise, they compete. Most of the time it's more effective to play as if you're solo and just avoid getting on your teammate's "turf". Even on defense maps.

I think you are mentioning and half quoting my comment.

 

I never said Vortex to M-Prime. I said, send a Antimatter drop into a Vortex cluster of enemies. Completely different and is great teamwork.

 

Tesla on Ash is great. It doesn't kill the same enemies. While ash is killing an enemy the tesla is killing another enemy depending on the range you have cooked up on your Tesla. It's a great way to having moving Tesla balls.

 

But you're right. Why not put them in a strategic area? But why not do both and all and more. I can stick 4 on Ash and still have plenty to net or web up an area in tesla balls.

 

I do agree there should be more rewards for teamwork. Killing enemies in the vaccinity of a friend being revived should reward you with some sort of protection bonus for guarding you pals while they revived each other.... Something like that and more.

 

BF3 gives you points when friend spawn on your. Why can't we get point each time a friendly uses Nova's wormhole? Each time friends kill enemies after being buffed by Rhino? Etc...

Edited August 19, 2013 by RawGritz