Mainabi Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) - flashlights - security cameras - hack panels - carrying the datamass with your hand - highly explosive cans randomly placed, (especially next to the windows) - grineer and corpus stand by - extraction - capture - mobile defense - sabotage so yeah logic is one thing a game can be illogical to a certain degree it can't go completely $&*&*#(%& it has some logic in it's own universe and might work there Flashlgihts but rly... why do tenno use flashlights? aren't tennos highly specialized and trained soldiers/ninjas why don't they get to equip kind of a sonar, mapscan thing that lets the tenno see in the night, what about heatcams etc? elite soldiers do have nightview goggles why does the tenno use a flashlight, which isn't even good at all? sometimes these flashlights can't make brighten a big area, if tenno rly have to use a flashlight then make the flashlight stronger and more wide I mean honestly I could run around with a candle and would get more light then tenno flashlights. suggestions: nightviewgoggles: infrared, sonar, heat whatever, it doesn't feel sci fi at all running with a flashlight that is as bright as someone who can count to potato Security Cams the corpus can make 2legged robots, flying/hovering drones, spaceships etc etc, but they can't make a 360° cam? and it even shows what it "scans"? yay security ahoy! (No i'm not the type of explorer that wants to punish rusher by having millions of laser doors, I'm a rusher myself!) why do the security cams make a laser barrier BUT don't close the doors? I don't rly get it, the doors open itself if someone gets close, so there should be kind of a tracking/sensor that sees more than the security cams suggestions: make 360° security cams, also it should lock down the doors upon sight, to make it more fair and less annoying while stealth it can track you but it takes around 3sec to analyze you to identify you as a hostile beeing, while in those 3sec you can get out of sight (cover) or you can simply destroy the cam which, else if you get tracked for 3sec and you did nothing about it = alert + doorlock BUT because of that, DE could make a mod, a warframe mod that fakes the signature and you won't get tracked by the security cams and you won't get a lockdown by the cam, a manual lockdown by someone can still happen Hack Panels Hack Panels are too easy, yes DE promised new minigames, but the "look" how you hack the panels doesn't feel right, mass effect did it way better, although it's still easy it looked better with that mass of data, and these code lines, it looked more like hacking than just turn some pieces around to make a complete picture http://youtu.be/KjpXwHLXSUY also fallout 3 did it better:http://youtu.be/zBCYAEudCM8 that would totally match to the grineer suggestions: make hacking more challenging not just by time, but more puzzling, riddles and mindgames (also with a timelimit) also the hackpanels aren't rly nice at all I mean, the panels are just used for breaking through a door, how about making hack panels always accessible? and giving it more purpose? suggestions: every door should have a hack panel - to manually lock that door hack panels near turrets - temporarily make the turret friendly hack panels near security cams - disable the security cam or make it friendly not sure what's better right now (also temp) failing a hack should be punished, with an alert etc. Datamass if the datamass should stay, make backpacks why do you have to carry it with your hand if your back is much more safer? to climb to use weapons etc. or were could it be that backpacks weren't invented yet? suggestions: backpacks, or let sentinels carrying these small eggthing data (that blue thing that sticks out of the datamass) maybe with a mod Explosive Cans near windows which genius had the idea to place dangerous stuff next to the windows? *cough corpus engineers aren't that smart cough* suggestions: just remove it and place it inside the small rooms with the lockers on higher lvls you don't use it to dmg enemies anyway. Corpus and Grineer Stand By why are there always corpus moas walking around? they've got an intern system to deploy corpus moas, why do they walk around and patrol? (on mission start and stealth) why are the corpus engineer and techs always ready to fight? it's their own ship it's not like we told them that we came by to steal their artifact or kill their boss... suggestions: add more tiles, also tiles (sleepcabines, lobbies, more storerooms etc) let the corpus live a little bit, make them more alive, if they have to wear uniforms let them start like the capture target, open helmet, no weapons, if there's an alert corpus (human corpus) should run to the lockers and ready themself) and else, if the alert isn't triggered let them work on comps, terminals or server or just let them stay around and chitchat (crysis 1 was fun, the koreans were just idling around not always ready sometimes they had to &!$$ into the ocean or they were talking chitchatting) Grineer are wannabe ninjas by sneaking around all the time suggestions to grineer: they're are a military fraction patrolling makes more sense to them, but how about let them march around? and if they patrol they should always walk around as a grp maybe or more systematic, instead of walk/sneak around the patrol could have their weapons ready and always in their hands. while the idling grineer could also talk with their grps or sit in a ready room and talk or fight there, there could also be some grineer who aren't wearing any armor but training their bodies in the gym or eat in the canteen. yes these extra tilesets sounds like much but it makes warframe more lively, also it could give new mission types: poisoning the grineer or whatever Extraction - Ship extraction the extraction doesn't feel right you just walk to the ship and plug yourself in like a baws totally chilled, it would make sense on extermination missions but other mission types well I don't think the tenno 1person ships should be at at the exit. if you enter a ship you don't get in from the front door, why don't you try to leave the corpus/grineer ship that way? it would make much more sense if the tenno ship doesn't idle around at the exit, it's like the corpus/grineer don't care about these ships at all. suggestions: different extractions, not always the same tile how about you get into a trashcan and get thrown out into the space with that trashcan and the tenno ship picks you up?, or destroy a window so you get dragged out and the tenno ship can get you there? Capture the capture target is super important, yet nobody protects him? no bodyguards? nothing? yay suggestions: give him bodyguards, and maybe make that there are more people around and you have to find a way to capture the real target: A.1 just kill everyone and capture them, but it can go wrong since the real one could escape in the meantime (also which means the corpus don't have to be at the same spot.)A.2 kill every potential target while beeing in stealth and keep doing stealth kills, that way it doesn't trigger the alert and you can advance normally further B. find out which target it is by listening/observing the targets and surroundings, (for example a random corpus could eventually say the corpus in green is a VIP and blabla they have to protect them), and then silently get him or be loud and capture him and get out it would give more diversity HOW to solve a capture mission Mobile Defense No lotus, don't try to calculate things! and mobile defense doesn't make sense. About the mobile defense, why do we leave the artifact after we've protected it? (grineer, infested) there should be an army of standard tennos rushing in and securing the artifact, it's just stupid to leave it alone, and yes the grineer want to destroy the terminal, maybe bruteforce is better than counterhacking themself. And why do the infested try to destroy the terminal, the tenno hacks into the grineer network, it shouldn't matter to the infested. And why are corpus using the same stupid brutish strategy against hacking? suggestions: don't let lotus say: it takes longer than I calculated, let her say, the firewall is strong it takes some time to hack it or something like this, I mean she's a our guide but if she miscalculate it all the time I don't want to let her guide me. grineer mobile defense - after the successful protection of the artifact let a big group of npc tennos rush in and secure the artifact > mission complete and automatic extraction, these tennos can just be normal xcals or whatever carrying lato, skana and braton nothing special but it would spice it up and look better and make more sense than leaving the pod alone. infested mobile defense - to make more sense just let the terminal make noise/an alert which makes the infested aggressive and giving them a reason to attack the terminals corpus mobile defense, there should be extra terminals for the corpus so corpus can counterhack and even lockdown/shutdown the terminals from far away. it would give us tenno an alert that we get counterhacked and we have to look for the corpus that tries to interfer with our hacking. Sabotage it's always destryong a reactor or mining tanks, it's boring and it makes me think lotus doesn't know to sabotage in a different way suggestions: how about hacking the reactor so it will overheat and explode? or how about sabotaging the grineer/corpus by planting a virus into their network, destroy the sustainment/air supply system etc. or poisoning the food, water or leaving a toxic nano spores into the air supply system things etc feel free to discuss agree or disagree, I'm happy to see some feedbacks if you see english mistakes, pm me so I can edit it thanks ;) edit: PS yes I was bored xD Edited August 17, 2013 by Seira-EGT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hustler-One Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Do you imagine, 10 min to hack a terminal ? No thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainabi Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Do you imagine, 10 min to hack a terminal ? No thanks... I never said it should take 10min but something that takes more effort would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) I never said it should take 10min but something that takes more effort would be nice Which would be easily thrown out the window with Ciphers... Edited August 17, 2013 by RazorTip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hustler-One Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Agreed with RazorTip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communist101 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Add how the Hind looks to the list. That thing simply does not look Grineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainabi Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Which would be easily thrown out the window with Cyphers... you know that ciphers only do 4 hexagons max? so you still have to do another one or use another cipher, which also means to hack something like that you might use 4+ ciphers and you can only carry max 8 so yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarudizer Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This is another one of those threads I agree with, so prepare to meet a BUNCH of people who don't. Seems like I have that affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvi1207 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 rollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 you know that ciphers only do 4 hexagons max? so you still have to do another one or use another cipher, which also means to hack something like that you might use 4+ ciphers and you can only carry max 8 so yeah You know that ciphers only cost 250 credits, right? Let's say your 3 other teammates also carry 8 ciphers each, that would mean you'd have 32 cyphers in total, plenty of chances to hack those terminals of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainabi Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 You know that ciphers only cost 250 credits, right? Let's say your 3 other teammates also carry 8 ciphers each, that would mean you'd have 32 cyphers in total, plenty of chances to hack those terminals of yours. yup so what? you can skip the hacking, but if you want to have fun you do it, it's not forced it's optional, same as rushing why should I check every locker or kill every target if I can rush to the boss kill him and quit? just because you can use ciphers it doesn't mean it's bad. or how about we make the game for you like this? you can walk around and shoot and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditsydoo Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Hmm this would make warframe feel more organic or atleast in-universe to me. One thing about extraction that still really bothers me is void extractions. Like HOW IS THE SHIP HERE? WE TELEPORTED TO THE FREAKING PLACE NOT VENT JUMP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaikoKhan Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think the mission names on the alerts always sound interesting, but the missions don't really reflect most of them, which is a shame. I agree with OP. +1. (Although, hacking each door panel? That'd only work if it means the enemy have to get through them too - if they have a swipe card, or their comp detects that they're alive, then that's one thing. Otherwise it could get tedious.) Also, for extracting the artefact: why not use the hostage models that have the lotus symbol? Maybe instead of just defending the artefact, we defend them while they extract it and then escort them out? ...I really don't like the sound of that. Unless it's coupled with extermination. Mobile Defence waves + Extermination = safe to abandon artefact. No further lifeforms on this ship! You slaughtered them all (again), Tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 same as rushing why should I check every locker or kill every target if I can rush to the boss kill him and quit? Yeah, I guess this says it all. you can walk around and shoot and nothing else. Because, in your interpretation, the game is "Warframe - Ninjas rush free", though if I do recall, the message was "Ninjas play free", isn't it? So we basically walk around and shoot enemies, do a few flips and parkour stunts, grind, have fun with team mates, etc. I guess I must be wrong, and the game is purely centered in running at high speeds from one objective to another. And for the record? I never said it's bad, I just said that Ciphers would make your idea of hacking a lot easier, therefore throwing the supposed "difficulty" out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Sounds good but rather cosmetic-ish for me. However, I agree with the hack panel idea. The Grineer cipher has been here long enough, we need something more and definitely harder than this one. It's too easy. Even ME2 hacking is harder, don't even mention the despicable Fallout3 hacking which I had never be able to do it right the first time. Capture mission and the target : the corpus crewman needs some place safer, I agree. Put him in a maximum security jail or give him a few tough bodyguards. Flashlight: I think Tenno should be able to use some sort of visual augmentation but only briefly. Give them infrared vision for an entire mission is going to give many players headache. Datamass is meant to hinder the player and force him to use only sidearm. ME3MP do have a backpack but with mobility penalty which doesn't fit Warframe at all. I think some sort of penalty on carrier is needed but, frankly with OP sidearms like Bolto, I just murder everything anyway. No idea here. I think adding new barrack/living quarter tileset is a bit too much resource/time spent. Simply add a label on those red, inaccessible door "living quarter" would be enough. But the idle chitchat and working/patrolling is a good idea which has been in the stealth/action genre for a long time. Make the game looks more believable. Mobile defense is just cosmetic. I think each faction will have it's own specific panel at some point. Perhaps the Infest will have the hive mind that we can organically hack into DNA database to alter DNA/RNA which leads to faulty protein chain within the system and contaminate the whole area. Similar to other types of missions, I think these kind of variations are cosmetic. It looks good but essentially doesn't change the actual gameplay. I'm looking forward to mission overhaul from DE though. Extraction tile - cosmetic stuff. Looks good but not really gameplay-related. Can wait for update 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainabi Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) I think the mission names on the alerts always sound interesting, but the missions don't really reflect most of them, which is a shame. I agree with OP. +1. (Although, hacking each door panel? That'd only work if it means the enemy have to get through them too - if they have a swipe card, or their comp detects that they're alive, then that's one thing. Otherwise it could get tedious.) Also, for extracting the artefact: why not use the hostage models that have the lotus symbol? Maybe instead of just defending the artefact, we defend them while they extract it and then escort them out? ...I really don't like the sound of that. Unless it's coupled with extermination. Mobile Defence waves + Extermination = safe to abandon artefact. No further lifeforms on this ship! You slaughtered them all (again), Tenno. euhm sorry you've missunderstood me with hacking each door panel, you don't have to, but for example let's say you're rescuing someone locking the door behind you makes it more safer! as I said it's completely optional, and toying around with it would be fun, it's not like you have to hack every door to advance further. also let's say you've triggered the alert, hacking once would open all doors again but if you get into the next cam it will close the door again (it should lock in less time let's say 1second) that forces you to take and look around more carefully and if you're pro enough you know exactly where the cams are rushing through while pew pew shouldn't give TOO much trouble yet it's like a little challenge then! beeing fast! since right now who doesn't slide/slidemelee through lasers? and also nice idea to the extermination + mobile defense combination Because, in your interpretation, the game is "Warframe - Ninjas rush free", though if I do recall, the message was "Ninjas play free", isn't it? So we basically walk around and shoot enemies, do a few flips and parkour stunts, grind, have fun with team mates, etc. I guess I must be wrong, and the game is purely centered in running at high speeds from one objective to another. And for the record? I never said it's bad, I just said that Ciphers would make your idea of hacking a lot easier, therefore throwing the supposed "difficulty" out the window. first of all, the parkour in warframe is S#&$, mirrors edge, assasins creed did it well, there's no chain parkour in warframe only a few jumps. grind isn't what warframe wants to be, well at least not the only thing, steve said that himself. have fun with teammates, well I think people do agree with me when I say there's barely a real coop feel in warframe. and I have no idea why you're trying to put words into my mouth with ninjas rush free? and about the ciphers and hacking panels, you can't even make it yourself hard/challenging/or give yourself a different feel with hacking panels. it's just sooo boring that A. I sit around and let someone else make it or use ciphers, because it's boring everyone who wishes to do the mindgames/riddles etc with the suggestions they can freely use it nobody forces them to use ciphers, the people who don't want it, use ciphers, where's the problem? ciphers are there to make it easier. or should we completely remove hacking panels since ciphers remove the purpose of it? how about just pressing e to open everything? oh wait that's 1 button too much it's useless the existence of it is useless so let's just remove it alltogether and @nekro it's a feel thing, it changes the gameplay and the way you act and feel about the whole universe, and btw in every single suggestion thread I made I never talked about making it now, I also know it's beta but that's also why we should give feedback. about flashlights and nightview: simplest AND BEST SOLUTION: add a toggle key for that ;) datamass: it doesn't really hinder me at all, acrid is probably the best weapon in my inventory, I don't really need my primary I use the braton prime as a fun weapon, although I've formad it 7times (because I can hell yeah) and the rest, the extra tiles as I said they don't have to rush it but would be nice if DE would say something about that, also Roleplay will be an important part in warframe, many people love to roleplay, that's also why they allow people to use different stances in the future. and also scarfs are completely cosmetic yet they will come in update 10, just because it's cosmetic doesn't mean it's bad, also just because it's cosmetic doesn't mean you should completely ignore it forever Edited August 17, 2013 by Seira-EGT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 - flashlights - security cameras - hack panels - carrying the datamass with your hand - highly explosive cans randomly placed, (especially next to the windows) - grineer and corpus stand by - extraction - capture - mobile defense - sabotage 1. All the energy is reserved for powers, shielding, and stamina. 2. Cameras focus in certain areas are meant to trap. 360 cameras scanning the whole room is just going to take a long time basically making them useless. 3. Jebus H those hacking examples are tremendously slow. Warframe is a quick game and all this slow stuff does not fit. I wouldn't mind more complex puzzle, as seen in the mastery test, but some crawl of a hack. 4.Gameplay feature to add a bit of a challenge. 5.Those explosive barrels can actually take a lot of punishment. I guess they didnt think the Tenno were such bad shots the continuously hit them. 6.We are hitting strategic places.... we are not attacking malls. Of course, there is some security there. 7. Who says we are entering the front door? We sneaked in so it's very likely that this docking area is some place that is not a place of heavy traffic. 8. Well.... we are ninjas and we sneaked in so they are not prepared. But maybe once detected the game can spawn guards that gain power as time passes. 9. Maybe the Lotus doesnt want another Rifle Amp after she found out what it was. And why does the Infested need a reason to attack? They crazy. 10. DE said they are added new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainabi Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) 1. All the energy is reserved for powers, shielding, and stamina. 2. Cameras focus in certain areas are meant to trap. 360 cameras scanning the whole room is just going to take a long time basically making them useless. 3. Jebus H those hacking examples are tremendously slow. Warframe is a quick game and all this slow stuff does not fit. I wouldn't mind more complex puzzle, as seen in the mastery test, but some crawl of a hack. 4.Gameplay feature to add a bit of a challenge. 5.Those explosive barrels can actually take a lot of punishment. I guess they didnt think the Tenno were such bad shots the continuously hit them. 6.We are hitting strategic places.... we are not attacking malls. Of course, there is some security there. 7. Who says we are entering the front door? We sneaked in so it's very likely that this docking area is some place that is not a place of heavy traffic. 8. Well.... we are ninjas and we sneaked in so they are not prepared. But maybe once detected the game can spawn guards that gain power as time passes. 9. Maybe the Lotus doesnt want another Rifle Amp after she found out what it was. And why does the Infested need a reason to attack? They crazy. 10. DE said they are added new stuff. 1. it's not like nightview goggles take so much energy 2. 360° cameras/sensors shouldn't rotate to scan they scan a complete zone all the time (similar to drones from remember me http://youtu.be/qX-6goUeZ5M 3. that are simply examples I'm not saying that they have to do that way, but the difficulty grade like that would be nice, it's DE's job to make a great and challenging game. 4. "challenge" it would make sense if you can't flip with both hands anymore, it would make sense if the akversion of dual gun turns to a single gun, it would also make more sense if you can't use 2h weapons or use both hands for melee anymore, right now it doesn't change anything. 5. you don't place explosive barrels next to windows, if you're in a ship, it's dangerous and simply wrong 6. yes we are hitting strategic places, doesn't mean everything has to be lifeless.the american pentagon is also a strategic place yet it doesn't mean it's like every single worker there is a soldier and walks around with the gun and full heavy armored uniform, many of them just sit on the computer and do that kind of stuff. corpus have drones they can be used to roam around 7. we sneaked in yes, but where's the purpose of sneaking in when the extractionships just stay at the normal exit? it's the same as sneaking into a military zone and the transporter sits on the front door, or parking lot from the military zone it's not like the tenno ships and extractions are the same as the corpus/grineer, since tenno extraction ships look completely different and only carry 1 person 8. yes that's what I'm talking about, sneak in, low/normal security, after alert: everyone gets ready, the longer it takes the more spawn and heavier defenses. that should also warn the capture target. 9. then we never had a successful artifact recovery, also it's not about getting another rifle amp, it's about not letting anyone else getting the artifact. you won't profit yourself from it, maybe... but it's also as important not letting the enemy getting the hands on it. let's say you find alien tech you've got it and you can use it, but it doesn't mean you will leave any other nation dig out the alien tech. yes infested are crazy but they should attack us instead of the terminals 10. woot? you mean they're adding stuff? just because they're adding some stuff now doesn't mean they can sit back and relax Edited August 17, 2013 by Seira-EGT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andboomgoestheydynamite Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 yup so what? you can skip the hacking, but if you want to have fun you do it, it's not forced it's optional, same as rushing why should I check every locker or kill every target if I can rush to the boss kill him and quit? just because you can use ciphers it doesn't mean it's bad. or how about we make the game for you like this? you can walk around and shoot and nothing else. How is hacking a terminal for a minute+ fun? I think most people would find it a chore to hack a terminal for that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperAlien Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 And here I was thinking this was a thread addressing much more underlying issues such as scaling and weapon tiers and endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgaterboy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 How about replacing the flashlight ring with a gentle bluish "grid" so it looks more like a scanner or something? or like the checkout laser from the supermarket? Changing the flashlight beam could be a vanity thing, like the badges or helmets. Sold for plat or awarded in events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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