Performance issues with new Rig

[ClusterFunk]

Looking for Answers.

I can't maintain 144fps with my specs, It's really frustrating since I have invested some money on new hardware to get that smooth 144hz gameplay. My fps is normally 144 In liset and at the start of a mission, but in busy areas it goes down to 100-80. My temps are fine, and it seems both my cpu and gpu are at 50-40% usage. Turning down graphical settings or playing solo doesn't have any effect on  fps.  Also I'm playing in 1080p.

Specs: 

OS: Win10 64bit

Storage: 500GB SSD

Cpu: I5-8600k

Gpu: Gtx 1080

Psu: Corsair RM750x

List of what I have done to try to fix this:

Tweaked from Nvidia Control panel / maximum performance etc

Reinstall Warframe / Verify cache / Optimize.

Try Different launcher options / different DX variations / multithreaded rendering etc.

Reinstall / Try different graphics drivers.

Uninstall background things and disable Windows Update / Also updated my windows.

Test for memory leaks in Corpus.Outbreak etc, none found.

Tried Windows 10 Gaming mode, It had 0 effect.

Checked for Malware.

 

I'm not sure what It could be other than the Game engine. My rig gets enough power to run everything smooth, other games work just fine 144fps. The problem seems to exist only in Warframe, which is a shame since I was looking forward to start grinding again. Hope I can get some answers. 

• Thanks.

Edited June 17, 2018 by ClusterFunk

[Eternal]

3 hours ago, ClusterFunk said:

I'm not sure what It could be other than the Game engine

Yes, it is an issue with the engine but more so the nature of DX11. Specifically the large AI count from all of those enemies and the physics of the game. It all causes a CPU bottleneck since the overhead of DX11 and running most of the game logic on one core (or thread) leads to framerates being limited by your single core performance.

Since it takes more time to render it means less instructions being sent to your GPU to render more frames, a bottleneck.

Only way this will be 'fixed' is if they do some serious work on how the game engine handles each task amongst multiple threads (which has diminishing returns because you are still limited by dx11) or implement a low overhead API like DX12.

 

For now you could overclock your processor if you really can't stand the drops (don't blame ya) I added about 900mhz to my 7600k and it has definitely improved!

Good luck to ya my guy

[McSkops]

It's not just you. What Zen posted above seems to be the issue. If you notice, going solo gives more FPS than with squads due to less enemies. Tested it myself in the same missions.

I think many people don't notice the huge drops because they're playing at 60fps, which the game does hold most of the time.

It's a shame because the game did use to handle 120+fps like it was nothing.

[ClusterFunk]

19 hours ago, Zenviscerator said:

Since it takes more time to render it means less instructions being sent to your GPU to render more frames, a bottleneck.

Only way this will be 'fixed' is if they do some serious work on how the game engine handles each task amongst multiple threads (which has diminishing returns because you are still limited by dx11) or implement a low overhead API like DX12.

 

For now you could overclock your processor if you really can't stand the drops (don't blame ya) I added about 900mhz to my 7600k and it has definitely improved!

Good luck to ya my guy

 

16 hours ago, McSkops said:

It's not just you. What Zen posted above seems to be the issue.

Alright, thank you guys for clearing this up for me! I will look into overclocking my Cpu aswell. 

[MillbrookWest]

On 2018-06-17 at 10:11 PM, Zenviscerator said:

Yes, it is an issue with the engine but more so the nature of DX11. Specifically the large AI count from all of those enemies and the physics of the game. It all causes a CPU bottleneck since the overhead of DX11 and running most of the game logic on one core (or thread) leads to framerates being limited by your single core performance.

Since it takes more time to render it means less instructions being sent to your GPU to render more frames, a bottleneck.

Only way this will be 'fixed' is if they do some serious work on how the game engine handles each task amongst multiple threads (which has diminishing returns because you are still limited by dx11) or implement a low overhead API like DX12.

 

For now you could overclock your processor if you really can't stand the drops (don't blame ya) I added about 900mhz to my 7600k and it has definitely improved!

Good luck to ya my guy

Just as a clarification. DX has nothing to do with game logic. It's just the API used for rending to the screen.

But on game logic, there are problems which are inherently difficult to parallelise across multicore cpu's.

As a basic example you can't have the order of events change when dealing with how the AI interacts with you. There is clear progression: You shoot > you hit > AI dies.

This order cannot be broken up where: AI dies > you shoot > you hit... as this makes no sense. Parallelising CPU work involves breaking up things which can be broken up so that they can be updated independently (read: the order has no impact on them).

You can 'thread' the above progression (sure), but you end up synchronising the job across cores where "you hit" must wait until "You shoot" to have been done (which essentially is no better than running the code on one thread).

The same goes true for most tasks the AI perform. If it is to pathfind, it must know where it is going, before it starts its journey there.   

Additionally, Warframe's issue isn't its render time (this is evidenced by the fact Warframe continues to make graphical improvements). So render time has little effect on Warframe and DX11 is perfectly fine for what Warframe does render-wise.

When Warframe starts to push up to Division/Uncharted levels of visual quality, you start to hit that DX render issue - This note was made clear by the Devs of The Witcher 3 (CDPR) who made no moves to add DX12 to TW3 as the game was fine within the DX11 limitations.

21 hours ago, ClusterFunk said:

 

Alright, thank you guys for clearing this up for me! I will look into overclocking my Cpu aswell. 

Overclocking the CPU will help a little bit, but it wont scale well with the overclock - you may get a few extra FPS (i don't know the overclocking potential of that CPU so this is a generalised guess).

For the reasons above, Warframe won't really respond to an overclock the way another title might.

This isn't a Warframe specific issue mind. You just happen to play titles that skirt around the problem. AI takes up a large portion of CPU time. Other games skirt around this issue. Forstbite titles (for example) have god awful AI, they can put a bunch on screen easy, but they behave like spastic robots. The flip side however is that since Frostbite isn't dealing with bothersome AI subroutines, they can spend a lot of CPU time preparing render work - so those games look positively stunning!

Warframe scales with AI count. More AI = less performance. This is a general rule of thumb for most games (See Asscreed Unity).

[ClusterFunk]

1 hour ago, MillbrookWest said:

Overclocking the CPU will help a little bit, but it wont scale well with the overclock - you may get a few extra FPS (i don't know the overclocking potential of that CPU so this is a generalised guess).

Yeah I figured, after watching some benchmarks. Overclocking at this point would only be for Warframe and the benefits would not be that big. If you are lucky with the chip you can get up to 5ghz with the I5-8600k. What I'm getting from your reply is that the issue is still with Warframe and not the PC. Again thank you for the answer, I'm learning new stuff.