Strong Dual "tradeoff Mods" Request

[Lyker]

Hey.

 

I would like dual mods that has a high benefit but a tradeoff.

 

Example:

 

300% critical damage

-75% shield

 

This mod would be use by someone who play stealth and use a sniper.

He trade all his shield in for more damage.

 

etc

Edited August 18, 2013 by Lyker

[sambarpowder]

Such a mod would be relatively too powerful. Something with that much of an effect can't be a mod.

[Rhorge]

The idea is good and the example is just that: an example. The thing that is sorely needed right now is build diversity.

[CubedOobleck]

Well, I think that essentially that's how mods work already, you are choosing one over another because you have limited space and can't use them all. It's just not as drastic as your example, but I think it will become more evident as more worthwhile mods are added to the game.

Edited August 18, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Volvadin]

Dual mods that give a strong base effect but a -% effect would be interesting. Would be even more interesting in putting a more drastic effect on them instead of a raw stat.

 

How about this:

 

Elephant Hunter - Sniper

+25% Base Crit

Can not Zoom

[sambarpowder]

Dual mods that give a strong base effect but a -% effect would be interesting. Would be even more interesting in putting a more drastic effect on them instead of a raw stat.

 

How about this:

 

Elephant Hunter - Sniper

+25% Base Crit

Can not Zoom

Now this, we definitely need.

[Grulos]

Tradeoff mods sound really nice, but thes should not lower any of the Warframe stats (if they are for weapons and vice versa)

I'd like to see a +XX% damage , -XX% firerate.

[Mainabi]

Dual mods that give a strong base effect but a -% effect would be interesting. Would be even more interesting in putting a more drastic effect on them instead of a raw stat.

 

How about this:

 

Elephant Hunter - Sniper

+25% Base Crit

Can not Zoom

 

pls don't call it elephant hunter we don't want to have some $&*&*#(%& peta activist messing up with warframe

Edited August 18, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[rksk16it]

pls don't call it elephant hunter we don't want to have some $&*&*#(%& peta activist messing up with warframe

 

So many games have animal skinning, and they even have that disgusting sound when u do that. I dont think just a *name* can do much harm.. but again.. not sure :/

[Mainabi]

So many games have animal skinning, and they even have that disgusting sound when u do that. I dont think just a *name* can do much harm.. but again.. not sure :/

peta tried to fight against nintendo (pokemon)....

[rksk16it]

peta tried to fight against nintendo (pokemon)....

 

LOLWUT ?!

 

Ok.. I guess I stand corrected =.=

[CeePee]

I already suggested this before and still agree, gives more depth to customization.

[Lyker]

Such a mod would be relatively too powerful. Something with that much of an effect can't be a mod.

 

I took it far in the example just to make everyone understand the concept of it =)

[-Kittens-]

I can tell you right now I will never install a tradeoff mod unless it's ridiculously lopsided to some benefit I want or it gives a completely cheezy and broken advantage.

 

Artificial "balance" is just as problematic as artificial difficulty.

[Rhorge]

I can tell you right now I will never install a tradeoff mod unless it's ridiculously lopsided to some benefit I want or it gives a completely cheezy and broken advantage.

 

Artificial "balance" is just as problematic as artificial difficulty.

This has nothing to do with balance. There are many people that would sacrifice things they can do without for some benefits, allowing them to do that creates variety not balance. If you don't like them then don't use them, that's the point of adding more options.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Rhorge

[-Kittens-]

This has nothing to do with balance. There are many people that would sacrifice things they can do without for some benefits, allowing them to do that creates variety not balance. If you don't like them then don't use them, that's the point of adding more options.

 

 

You must not understand balance very well then.

[Rhorge]

You must not understand balance very well then.

Apparently because I have no clue what you are talking about. Please enlighten me.

[theammostore]

I can tell you right now I will never install a tradeoff mod unless it's ridiculously lopsided to some benefit I want or it gives a completely cheezy and broken advantage.

 

Artificial "balance" is just as problematic as artificial difficulty.

Okay. But I would love for there to be a +firerate -accuracy mod, or a +damage -firerate, or even a simple +magazine -zoom mod. Even if it's a simple +10% this -10% that

 

customization is fun for anybody, unless you try to min/max you things in which case I think your a little nuts

[NotBot]

I can tell you right now I will never install a tradeoff mod unless it's ridiculously lopsided to some benefit I want or it gives a completely cheezy and broken advantage.

 

Artificial "balance" is just as problematic as artificial difficulty.

This isn't D&D where you can min-max to literal godhood.

 

The idea is to provide an actual tradeoff on the weapon itself, which also provides you some benefit above and beyond the normal mod for that benefit.

 

Will this produce combinations that can one shot anything under level 200? Maybe.

Will said combination also be a pain to use, with something like 10 second reloads and 1 shot clips? Yep.

 

The whole point is customization.

You can make the weapon more effective for a certain style of combat, while making it too specialized to be used in other styles.

Or maybe do the opposite, mitigating it's advantages and disadvantages to make it a decent all-round gun.

[-Kittens-]

This isn't D&D where you can min-max to literal godhood.

 

 

 

Actually that's exactly what the current damage model for both frames and weapons allows for. Again, why would anyone who chases the rabbit hole skinner box do anything to purposefully break that paradigm?

 

The only model that breaks that mold is picking an entirely defensive frame or stun-lock + slow weapon setup which as I've detailed here is pretty much shooting yourself in the face, especially in throughput department.

 

 

 

 

styles

 

Are a completely artificial paradigm almost universally practiced by people who are literally bored with content and resorting to literally contrived means to keep the game interesting after everything is maxed. Sure, it's an avenue that should be explored to prevent ennui and grind fatigue, but the simple rub is grinding 100% defines this game, and some mods that make you pick and choose benefit will have to be of rather stark benefit for anyone to switch out with what already exists, because incidental throughput pretty much rules this game top to bottom.

 

Whilst DE is changing the model of damage, it's very likely to be an upward and outward branching model, not a redaction of current trends, which again calls into question why mods that give a debilitating countereffect are remotely useful to grind acceleration, unless the gain is essentially a complete mitigation of the loss, which once again calls into question why you'd ever switch with what you have in the first place.

 

If you're curtailing your damage output for a "nifty effect", it's likely you've run out of things to do or are artificially extending the life of the game.

 

 

 

one shot level 200

 

kinda makes my point for me.

 

There are certainly players who want "tradeoff", but that's something that should have been introduced in the beginning, because the current model has been pretty much tested to the hilt, and consistent throughput rules the roost, and getting players out of that model without being punitive is an extremely slippery slope.

Edited August 19, 2013 by -Kittens-

[MECT_HET]

Tradeoff sounds pretty interesting. But please,

Elephant Hunter - Sniper

+25% Base Crit

Can not Zoom

leave borderlands off this.

 

How about: +25% vampirism, - 70% hp; +40% chance to ricochet, -40% rof, etc.

 

It's good thing for creating your very own unique setup. So, endorsed.

[NotBot]

Actually that's exactly what the current damage model for both frames and weapons allows for. Again, why would anyone who chases the rabbit hole skinner box do anything to purposefully break that paradigm?

 

The only model that breaks that mold is picking an entirely defensive frame or stun-lock + slow weapon setup which as I've detailed here is pretty much shooting yourself in the face, especially in throughput department.

That's a function of horrible balance that's already in place. This argument is against how the idea of mod tradeoffs would have to work to be used right now.

 

Are a completely artificial paradigm almost universally practiced by people who are literally bored with content and resorting to literally contrived means to keep the game interesting after everything is maxed. Sure, it's an avenue that should be explored to prevent ennui and grind fatigue, but the simple rub is grinding 100% defines this game, and some mods that make you pick and choose benefit will have to be of rather stark benefit for anyone to switch out with what already exists, because incidental throughput pretty much rules this game top to bottom.

 

Whilst DE is changing the model of damage, it's very likely to be an upward and outward branching model, not a redaction of current trends, which again calls into question why mods that give a debilitating countereffect are remotely useful to grind acceleration, unless the gain is essentially a complete mitigation of the loss, which once again calls into question why you'd ever switch with what you have in the first place.

 

If you're curtailing your damage output for a "nifty effect", it's likely you've run out of things to do or are artificially extending the life of the game.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by styles. I like getting in close and wrecking havok. Some people like sniping. I could snipe without ennui, but I prefer shotguns and melee. I usually flow into what weapons mean for me, and certain trade-offs work well.

 

The disadvantage is possibly mitigated because I simply never used that aspect of a weapon. A shotgun mod that increases damage fall off while giving multishot is fine for me, but a pain for people who use their shotgun for midrange combat, because it neuters their capability to work effectively. And yes I did indeed get stronger in the area I prefer. It further specialized me, and gave everyone else an option to specialize how they want.

 

It isn't about curtailing damage for 'nifty effects' it's about hampering general effectiveness for additional effectiveness, depending on play style.

 

kinda makes my point for me.

 

There are certainly players who want "tradeoff", but that's something that should have been introduced in the beginning, because the current model has been pretty much tested to the hilt, and consistent throughput rules the roost, and getting players out of that model without being punitive is an extremely slippery slope.

The problem is that to get out of the balance hole DE has made, things need to be punitive. Even if we buff everything, it's just hiding the punishment towards the top-tier weapon user. If we bring down the top-tier weaponry and the problematic mob functionality, the results are well discussed. If we only buff the UP toolsets, power creep sets in. Changing gameplay mechanics, even a straight buff, is by it's nature, punitive.

[-Kittens-]

You're putting a band-aid on heart attack.

 

The issue is the game style and play-space, not the kind of mods we have.

 

While it is a pretty and comfortable band-aid; you're treating a symptom, not the disease.

Edited August 20, 2013 by -Kittens-

[NotBot]

You're putting a band-aid on heart attack.

 

The issue is the game style and play-space, not the kind of mods we have.

 

While it is a pretty and comfortable band-aid; you're treating a symptom, not the disease.

You seem to be mistaking a vitamin pill for a band-aid.

 

This isn't the be-all solution for Warframe's woes, merely a contribution to improve the game.

 

There are problems, yes, and other topics discuss those problems.

[-Kittens-]

You might wanna take a gander at your earlier responses compared to the current one.

 

Also, the original statement was, as I recall that I personally had no use for anything unless it was better, like a millionty times better than what we have currently, which essentially invalidates the level of tradeoff needed to mitigate said advantage in the first place "fairly".

 

Warframe is based on grinding, mods slowing down the grind in the name of "oooh neato artificial balance" will not be used, meaning DE has wasted both time and money.