Nova "steal Killing" Feedback

[TheDrift]

Anyone can take out high level enemies. Mod your guns. Her 4 doesn't rock wave 30+like it does wave 5's

[Kielix7]

*sigh... Oh boy, this thread again.

 

This is the inevitable evolution of this discussion, I hope you enjoy:

 

Playing with Nova's are incredibly boring. Nova reduces the skill ceiling so much that if you made this game any easier, you could remove the gore and slap an "Early Chidhood" ESRB sticker on it because of how ungodly simple it is.

 

Nova. Breaks. This. Game.

 

Her existence in itself directly and indirectly addresses so many problems with this game:

 

Enemy difficulty              Enemy AI               Energy availability              Ability spamming / Ult spamming     

Lack of parkouring                Lack of necessary skill              Lack of depth

No lobby system                      No real communication                 No real teamwork

 

Here's a familiar scenario where all the above apply:

You want to run around on some high level planet like Pluto or Ceres for goodies, but you can't go alone because the enemy level is so high, so you join an online match. You have three seconds once you click the planet to look at your team before the game throws you into a match. The game blacks out, and you see one of the players has a Nova.

 

Yay.

 

Dropping out of the vent, you see the Nova instantly take off with her maxed out Rush mods. You better have some Rush mods on yourself, because ain't nobody got time to wait for you. Looking around, you see multiple smashable containers. Figuring you have a few seconds to spare, you break them open and find 16 Rubedo. Okay, it isn't a large amount, but it's something. Turning around to exit the room, you notice the Nova is a speck in the distance, and she's raising her arms. Suddenly, a plethora of numbers explode on screen; you miss out of experience because you aren't in the room, and by the time you get there, half the loot is de-spawned. Lovely. You politely ask for the Nova to chill out and let you catch up. Then, the all-too-familiar mantra of the rushing community pops up on your screen,

 

"If you wanna go slow, go solo."

 

Unfortunately for you, there's nothing you can do besides keep up, and hope a couple of conveniently-placed loot containers appear in front of the Nova's path so even they will stop to break them open. Walking from room to room, Nova continues to exercise their right to the "press 4 to win" button, making every room a cakewalk. Trying to wake yourself up, you attempt to perform some badass parkouring; wallrunning down the corridor, jumping forward into a dragon kick an-Oh, everything is dead. Sweet, I didn't want to actually do fancy things anyway.

 

Finally, you reach the end of the level, the Nova impatiently tapping her foot waiting for you and the rest of your team, and you look at your rewards. Such a pitiful amount. You look at the rewards with disgust, "If only that stupid Nova wouldn't rush, I could loot more things, and actually kill things."

Then that feeling hits you, the feeling you've had since you were a level 3 excalibur and saw rushers for the first time:

 

People rush because this game has nothing to it. All that is guaranteed are the rewards at the end of the mission, nothing else really matters.

No other loot is guaranteed. Killing those hordes of Grineer with your underleveled, non-armor piercing Braton, and using your third ammo pack has left you defeated, as you nonchalantly pick up that one package of Ferrite: 22.

 

What the hell is the point? Why even explore? The environments are nice, but after seeing them a hundred thousand times, why? What's the purpose in container farming? Most of the time it's energy and a pathetic amount of credits, and even if you get resource drops, it's usually less than 20, and you need a couple thousand of anything to build anything.

 

Enraged, on the verge of tears, shaken, you clench your first in anger. Why has this happened? Punching the ground in a self-absorbed fury of self-loathe and disgust, you can't stand it any longer. All the common map sets, all the bullet-sponge, braindead enemies that have more armor than a US M1 Abrams tank, but can't seem to realize his friend who he has known for 23 years on the force was just murdered in front of his eyes, a shuriken sticking out from his temples. "He must be tired, that was a wicked party on Saturday."

 

In your darkest hour, they will come. The Vanguard Rhinos, the Lokis, the Ashes, the Novas, all with their gleaming suits with maxed out Rush, Quick Rest, and Marathon mods. As you wipe the tears from your eyes, their hands reache out to you, and asks...

 

"Are you ready to make a change?"

 

And that is how I became a rusher.

 

Edited August 21, 2013 by Kielix7

[Keiga150]

There's a reason I suggested 15s. As you already indicated it may turn ultimates into team spam instead of individual spam. One of the issues people had regarding ultimates was apparently the individual spam (another being that Nova 'steals' their kills, but those players can be ignored and should go back to playing CoD in my opinion). But if it's team spam, that would require some form of coordination between players; which would promote co-op.

 

The other reason for 15s is because of the way game balance should be applied. Some companies get this completely wrong and apply game balance with a sledgehammer when they should be using a scalpel. And some game players want companies to apply game balance with a nuclear bomb; which is why they are game players and not game designers. You merely need to look at some of the 'suggestions' in these types of threads and you'll see what I mean... ^_^

 

So if a 15s cooldown turns out too little, they can nudge it up a little. If it turns out too long, they can nudge it down a little. 15s seemed the perfect starting point from my perspective.

 

At any rate, any cooldown timer would needs to have proper visuals on the UI, indicating when the ability is available again; be it numerical or graphical (or both).

True 15s would encourage more team synergy as opposed to "I'll do everything". As for the UI probably grey it like when you have no energy or red out with a timer on it.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Keiga150

[KyubiBlaze]

I just want to get this across.

 

 

Every time I get into a "Nova isn't OP" argument it turns into "WAH STFU SCRUB WHO CARES IF IT STEALS KILLS"

 

That is not what people dislike nova for. People dislike nova for the ability to nuke every and anything with no problem. The massive debuff, the massive explosions, the bloom from the explosions. This is not fun, I mean yes, when I got nova I had fun until she was rank 10. Then playing god got boring, as it should.

 

And, to top it all off, this is the new "Standard" which is what a lot of people also dislike. Some people are fine with their classes, like I rarely see someone complain about Saryn, Loki, or Rhino. What are you going to do to them? Buff them to Nova standards? Venom now contains Radiation, meaning after 10 seconds everything dies? Is Invisibility going to affect all Teammates like Volt's Speed?

 

I realize there are good things about playing with a Nova. Sure, you can leech, which is great. But I don't play this game to spam mastery rank. I play to enjoy myself, which might be hard to believe.

 

I like taking my time, incorporating backflips, dragon kicks, wallrunning headshots, and other goodies into my combat. I haven't had the time to since Nova was around, everything dies too quick. Every other ult has something to CC enemies, or it's range is too limited to really affect anything. Like Rhino's Stomp or Saryn's Miasma.

 

This is why I dislike Nova. She instagibs everything, forces the bloom to go haywire, is forcing your other frames to be affected when they are perfectly balanced, and removes any and all effort for 95% of the game.

 

So next time we have a Nova is OP or not argument (It will happen) on the forums. Remember they don't really care about killstealing. It may be a factor when wanting to level a certain weapon, but it's not the main point.

To all those who think nova steals kills , umm.. you guys are badly mistaken cause you don't actually use your heads...

 

NOVA , is a supportive warframe, with no defense abilities , all are agressive , she has low HP and MP , and armor is very very low

she cannot tank like other AOE warframes can.. , she is strictly supportive warframe.

now coming to that final skill of her that you guys say steals kills , this is not the case actually,

It is that after using her ulti mobs don't die and require you to shoot atleast on on to kill it for explosion ( consuming ammo) for the mobs in range of "that" enemy shot at . you guys fell it's stealing kills cause unlike other warframes who directly kills the enemy with their ulti nova let's them live a bit.

when directly kill you don't realize they kill almost the same as nova's ulti, but for nova let's them live you realize how many are they , + it consumes ammo + ulti , hence it uses more resources .

as I said it's strictly supportive , so priming enemies is a supportive role.

 

"I do not take into consideration the noobs who keep using the ulti even when not required, that is a mental problem with about 80% of nova users that is not a fault of the warframe's built , and can't be helped"

hope is made myself clear, please think a bit on what I wrote , for I am weak at explaining.

[Larsurus]

I play a very reserved Nova and try to only use my ult in sticky situations. One time my PuG team mates even asked me to start nuking on a defence map.

[-Kittens-]

To be frank, Nova is a big mistake from the council and a failure in term of design. Caster frame is fine until it can kill everything before anyone else has a chance to do anything. It's outright impossible to buff other frames to Nova's level since the game will be laughably easy at that point. Warframe won't be coop shooter at that point, it will be space murder simulator.

Nova also make another problem clearer. Ultimate spamming and energy system.

Releasing a new shiny content that able to outshine everything exists in the game is never a good thing. BW did the same mistake with Krysae sniper rifle in ME3MP. The gun managed to make entire arsenal irrelevant until BW dicided to go berserk and nerfed it to the ground.

 

The council picked things from a list. They did not "design" nova in any way shape or form.

 

The reegar, piranha, javelin, hurricane, paladin, typhoon,, and executioner had higher dps than the krysae, and only two of those were nerfed, and three of them were buffed. The context isn't the same.

[La6yrinth]

What's fun with Nova is the fact that you don't have to use ammo. And my friends are getting so peeved that even though I use no amme, my Accuracy is off the charts. Example below.

 

[Numot]

Every time I get into a "Nova isn't OP" argument it turns into "WAH STFU SCRUB WHO CARES IF IT STEALS KILLS"

 

If you wonder why that happens its because that's the trend.

 

Look at what doesn't get calls for nerfs; Bastille and Snowglobe. Yes people recently brought them up, but most people don't say squat about the two abilities that make it impossible to lose any defense used properly in tandem.

 

Look at what people asked to be nerfed: Before Nova it was post buff Rhino, before that, Ogris, before that, Orthos.

 

According to the community its ok to never die, and never be in danger, BUT LOTUS FORBID YOU KILL LIKE A CHAMP.

 

Nova hasn't made the game any easier since her introduction, you can still Bastille/Globe to victory, you can still chaos rooms and laugh hysterically, the only difference is now you can speed up the process by blowing crap up.

[Hayden11121]

If you wonder why that happens its because that's the trend.

 

Look at what doesn't get calls for nerfs; Bastille and Snowglobe. Yes people recently brought them up, but most people don't say squat about the two abilities that make it impossible to lose any defense used properly in tandem.

 

Look at what people asked to be nerfed: Before Nova it was post buff Rhino, before that, Ogris, before that, Orthos.

 

According to the community its ok to never die, and never be in danger, BUT LOTUS FORBID YOU KILL LIKE A CHAMP.

 

Nova hasn't made the game any easier since her introduction, you can still Bastille/Globe to victory, you can still chaos rooms and laugh hysterically, the only difference is now you can speed up the process by blowing crap up.

However I still have a purpose with Bastille and Snowglobe.

A Vauban alone cannot kill most of the things in Bastille before it runs out, nor can a Frost rely on his snowglobe when he gets swarmed by enemies on all sides.

 

However, Nova is a one man army. She needs no one but herself. We are just cosmetics while she rains her colorful explosions down on us and we are given the trickled down experience that she didn't want to waist 4 orbs on.

 

Anytime I see a Nova, I wait for that drop. It's almost like Banshee when she was overpowered, I would wait for that writhing base drop to send my poor Loki out of the job.

 

Before Nova existed I had a job as Loki. I wouldn't necessarily wipe the ground with foes but my ability to negate damage taken to me and effectively mod the heavier units away from harming others or into harms way, I found myself needed.

 

I found myself loved when I could revive anything with Invisibility, despite the situation.

Since Nova came around I rarely see people die in defense missions, I rarely see a need to even use Invisibility or a single skill in Loki's Arsenal anymore.

 

I can't imagine how poor Volt is feeling right now...

 

[drakwon]

I agree with this post.  If you don't like playing as Nova then pick another Warframe or if you see a squad with a Nova in it and just leave and play with people who don't play as Novas.  I personally like Nova especially in Defense missions only because it is such a relief when you can clear crowds instantly when you are being swarmed to death by enemies. 

 

I've been in matches where there wasn't a Nova but either a Rhino or Saryn and they sometimes walk around like their god because of their ulitimate in defense missions and when that happens they start wandering off being idiots thinking they can kill everything with their ultimates.  I like Nova for the sole purpose that you don't have to be in the middle of a crowd just get the most out of you ultimate but rather just wait for the enemies to cluster then trigger your ultimate instead of running around like a fool thinking your a god. 

 

It's the players that keep whining asking for nerfs and buffs that ruin the game.  Similar to Bioware's Mass Effect 3 multiplayer nerfing which broke the game in some ways because of people always asking for nerfs constantly.  Please do not nerf Nova.  She is fine the way she is.

Just not playing with a nova is a lot easier said than done, The difference between this game and mass effect 3 is that this game is good and ME3 multi-player was not.

 

I dont really think you comprehend what nova is currently doing to the game.  As a new player you probably don't even know there is a nova, but your trying to play and kill stuff but everything just explodes and you are running through an empty level, or just sitting at a cryopod on a defense mission doing basically nothing.  You think these new people are going to stay with the game? of course not. 

 

The majority of players like defense missions the most, and most players don't have 3 friends on who want to do whatever defense mission you planned. You can't really solo them very far unless you are a certain frame with certain weapons, but most of us are trying to level weapons and frames but we cant. Almost 75% of my games have a nova, so what your telling the majority of the player base to do is to play alone or play with a nova and waste your time.

[IIX_Vritrayan]

As usual there are people still defending nova again. Well I think OP's point got across.

+1

(Just to make it clear I have all warframes)  I know everyone's nuke capability. And nova tops it easily + very strong #4 CC

[XDeathCoreX]

What ever happened to all them Rhino hate and hate threads people keep mentioning?

 

Wondering if they nerf Nova and flock to Rhino, would people whine about Rhino and if they nerf Rhino and people flock to Saryn, shall there be threads for her?

 

Someone should experiment with Rhino and spam stomp and see what happens. Seems there is a Nova in every party which is why people complain.

[XDeathCoreX]

If people hate "Op" damage so much, then perhaps they should just get rid of damage in all the 4 abilities and give them an "op" CC effect instead.

 

Prime can just make enemies slow to a crawl, allow bullets to do triple damage and blind the enemy upon explosion.

 

Rhino Stomp should give the enemy an armor debuff ans suspend them in air twice as long.

 

Radial Javelin should stick enemies to the wall.

 

Miasma should make stagger enemies for an extremely long duration

 

Crush should crush the enemy armor completely obliterating it and enemies should get up really slow after being affect by it.

 

Sound Quake should be twice as long and Banshee should push enemies twice as far and have twice the range.

 

Avalanche should be renamed Snow Storm and cause a massive snowstorm can can freeze enemies at 50% rate and slow them down. Double damage done to frozen enemies and enemies within Snow Globe get frozen more often.

 

Absorb should draw all enemy aggro and channel all that added damage to teammates while blowing back the enemies far far away.

 

World of Fire should simply burn and stagger enemies melting their armor and causing constant stun.

 

Blade Storm should simply create shadow clones that teleport everywhere and cut up all enemies, but not kiling them. Every single enemy would be constantly staggered during the 25 slow blows.

 

Overload should provide constant Stun while adding elec damages to teammates weapons and constantly keeps their shields regenerating fast after all, he is the Tenno version of Jesus during Overload.

 

Blessing should simply add bonus damage of all 4 elements on top of current effect.

 

And Radial Disarm should simply make the enemy toss their weapons at the Tenno and allow the Tenno to pick them up and use them and the mod loadout of their current weapon shall carry over to the corresponding enemy weapon for s set duration.

 

There, you have your new Op abilities without doing any damage all the while reinforcing the idea of co-op. Now everyone's happy, there is a reason to shoot and level 500 enemies shall be the only ones crying nerf.

 

 

PS: Snow Storm shall cover the map in Snow gradually. And Volt's Overload shall add 50% more damage to enemy.

 

Avalanche can always drop a heap of snow on the map letting it slide in and wisk enemies away getting them stuck in the snow .

[Vypira]

People have been moaning for months about how caster frames need a buff (i.e. The hundreds of old threads about Ember spring to mind) and now we have one that works as intended people start spouting off about ''OP Nova''. Tbh I see nothing wrong with any of her abilities as even on T3 defence you have to actually put some work in after use. The only problem I see is her HP/Shields. I think that for a frame with that much damage, she isnt glass cannon enough. Reduce them and people will stop moaning when they see how fragile she is and it will also stop people running in blindly to mobs and just spamming 4. Problem solved, next rampant moaner please.

[neKroMancer]

The council picked things from a list. They did not "design" nova in any way shape or form.

 

The reegar, piranha, javelin, hurricane, paladin, typhoon,, and executioner had higher dps than the krysae, and only two of those were nerfed, and three of them were buffed. The context isn't the same.

 

Really? Didn't the council design her powers and DE picked from that pool and put it into a list for use to choose?

 

In the end, we did design her powers and we're responsible for this.

 

Also, did you remember the first few weeks that Krysae infiltrator ran around and OHK a group of mooks on Gold with little effort and aiming? The context is the same : AOE damage that render difficulty a laughable concept.

 

Don't judge everything by DPS,  a major pitfall in balancing anything in any game. 

 

Judge it by actual impact the content creates within the confine of the game. 

 

Nova nerfwar is exactly like the Hek nerfwar a few months before. Everyone came rushing to defend that its' not OP but when asked what to bring to defense they all said "Hek". That alone warrants a nerf. How much nerf is another matter.

[AudioRejectz]

[ImaginaryFacepalm]

If I want to kill stuff I play solo.

 

If I want to level up gear or just waste time I play defense as frost doing nothing but hitting 3 once a minute.

 

 

I realy gave up on playing with others, except for friends and clan members, as it only hinders your playstyle

[__Kanade__]

The only thing I don't like about Nova is that she ruins Bladestorm. Usually if I see primed enemies, I will use a Shuriken to kill them an get rid of them so that I can safely use Bladestorm, but no, that Nova just uses M.Prime again and I end up spending 100 energy to kill one enemy.

Edited August 22, 2013 by __Kanade__

[noir_kero]

The thing about nerf petition is its not going to end, if m-prime got nerf to the ground then stomp surely be next, afterward probably saryn's  venom move (I tried it, its fk-ing powerful), and so on and so on.

[buriburi]

I just want to get this across.

 

 

Every time I get into a "Nova isn't OP" argument it turns into "WAH STFU SCRUB WHO CARES IF IT STEALS KILLS"

 

That is not what people dislike nova for. People dislike nova for the ability to nuke every and anything with no problem. The massive debuff, the massive explosions, the bloom from the explosions. This is not fun, I mean yes, when I got nova I had fun until she was rank 10. Then playing god got boring, as it should.

 

And, to top it all off, this is the new "Standard" which is what a lot of people also dislike. Some people are fine with their classes, like I rarely see someone complain about Saryn, Loki, or Rhino. What are you going to do to them? Buff them to Nova standards? Venom now contains Radiation, meaning after 10 seconds everything dies? Is Invisibility going to affect all Teammates like Volt's Speed?

 

I realize there are good things about playing with a Nova. Sure, you can leech, which is great. But I don't play this game to spam mastery rank. I play to enjoy myself, which might be hard to believe.

 

I like taking my time, incorporating backflips, dragon kicks, wallrunning headshots, and other goodies into my combat. I haven't had the time to since Nova was around, everything dies too quick. Every other ult has something to CC enemies, or it's range is too limited to really affect anything. Like Rhino's Stomp or Saryn's Miasma.

 

This is why I dislike Nova. She instagibs everything, forces the bloom to go haywire, is forcing your other frames to be affected when they are perfectly balanced, and removes any and all effort for 95% of the game.

 

So next time we have a Nova is OP or not argument (It will happen) on the forums. Remember they don't really care about killstealing. It may be a factor when wanting to level a certain weapon, but it's not the main point.

 

if you rly think nova steals your kills you should stop playing this game! its not about killing its about winning. this is not quake3 deathmatch its a pve game not pvp

 

if you wanna get all the kills play solo 

[Hayden11121]

if you rly think nova steals your kills you should stop playing this game! its not about killing its about winning. this is not quake3 deathmatch its a pve game not pvp

 

if you wanna get all the kills play solo 

Learn To Read

[XDeathCoreX]

There are ways to make things tough without actually nerfing. Perhaps they can focus on enemy AI and the enemies themselves. Mayhaps buffing them some more, buffing the damage of weapons and buffing the weak warframes. the grineer need a higher level planet and Phobos failed to do that. The Corpus are pathetic so no worries about them and the infestation have no armor so there are destroyed by rhino Stomp and Masma.

 

Where are the enemies in the level 100s. if they come, Nova would appear weak. and where are the Smarter Ai? higher level and smarter enemies are in order and the sooner they come and the other warframe buffs, the sooner nova shall suffer a damage nerf, but not because of any nerf to her, but due to high level enemies so i ask again.

 

Where the hell are the higher level enemies because with the current level, frames like Nova are powerful and you have other games with really high level endgame content that put skills through the test. All this buffing and Nova are in preparation for the high level enemies. Soon you won't need to do defense to reach them so the devs need to stop slacking and get to work on providing proper endgame content and not another low level planet?

 

What did they expect when they produce Nova without the proper endgame content to support her needs. it's silly. think about the future people. If they do not buff the frames now, you can expect extremely tough enemies found in defense.

 

After all that seems like the direction that they are going with all this.

 

Nightmare mode is NOT enough.

[-Kittens-]

Really? Didn't the council design her powers and DE picked from that pool and put it into a list for use to choose?

 

In the end, we did design her powers and we're responsible for this.

 

Also, did you remember the first few weeks that Krysae infiltrator ran around and OHK a group of mooks on Gold with little effort and aiming? The context is the same : AOE damage that render difficulty a laughable concept.

 

Don't judge everything by DPS,  a major pitfall in balancing anything in any game. 

 

Judge it by actual impact the content creates within the confine of the game. 

 

Nova nerfwar is exactly like the Hek nerfwar a few months before. Everyone came rushing to defend that its' not OP but when asked what to bring to defense they all said "Hek". That alone warrants a nerf. How much nerf is another matter.

 

Umm no,

 

Picking from an arbitrary list is how you order pre-made food, not design a warframe. And I sure as hell didn't vote for her current two and three powers.

 

 

It's great you're trying to ignore DPS but DPS is the issue.  If MPrime had all the same attributes as now except it only did 300 damage per explosion or couldn't be cast again til every Primed target was dead we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Secondly, the Krysae was not nerfed because the AoE damage, it was nerfed because of Infiltrators being able to get off two 180% cloak shots with an added +25% damage and 15% RoF on the GI from Hunter Mode to add insult to injury.

 

Since the GI was Eric's favorite unit, he choose to nerf the weapon instead of the character. The Krysae was worthless thereafter and the GI continued to turn every weapon available into a bullet hose of infinite death.

 

You're also ignoring every weapon I mentioned had higher per target damage or stun and damage without cloak or headshot bonuses, and two of them caused literal stunlock from overloading the pain-flinch threshold, up to and including Praetorians and Banshees.

 

Context is king, and very simple shift would change quite a bit, just as it did for Volt.

Edited August 23, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Hayden11121]

Context is king, and very simple shift would change quite a bit, just as it did for Volt.

I agree two thousand percent.

 

If you made Nullstar deal double the damage it does now, but not stagger, I'd opt for it.

If you made Drop only take 3x the damage at max rank instead of 4x I'd opt for it.

If you made Molecular Prime only make targets explode and maybe only make other targets take double damage from the explosions ALONE, and have a "Power In Use" on it, no conversation would occur right now.

[XDeathCoreX]

9 second cool down should suffice.