Loki Is Truly A God

[avenger5]

What synergy does Banshee have? Sonar isn't synergistic with other powers, its synergistic with weapons and aim. Oh, and Vauban doesn't count, because he synergizes with everything.

 

Edit: As a second thought: Radial Disarm synergizes with strong melee weapons. Every frame can have a strong melee weapon.

Edited August 25, 2013 by avenger5

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

Decoy needs to draw aggro from everything no matter what, where ever its placed.

Only then will Loki be a true god.

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

What synergy does Banshee have? Sonar isn't synergistic with other powers, its synergistic with weapons and aim. Oh, and Vauban doesn't count, because he synergizes with everything.

 

Edit: As a second thought: Radial Disarm synergizes with strong melee weapons. Every frame can have a strong melee weapon.

Radial disarm then use decoy, everything runs to your decoy, easier to manage enemies I suppose.

Even easier when you have weapons that do AOE damage.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Stormo

[avenger5]

Decoy needs to draw aggro from everything no matter what, where ever its placed.

Only then will Loki be a true god.

 

Finding a balance for Decoy will be tricky. If you stick the Decoy in a place where it can't be hit, and every enemy is trying (unsuccessfully) to hit it, then that trivializes the game. Then again, we already have some things which trivialize the game, like Chaos.

 

"There are so many enemies!"

 

"Don't worry, they will kill each other."

 

"Oh."

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

Finding a balance for Decoy will be tricky. If you stick the Decoy in a place where it can't be hit, and every enemy is trying (unsuccessfully) to hit it, then that trivializes the game. Then again, we already have some things which trivialize the game, like Chaos.

 

I figured as much.

I would suggest making it a complete hologram,cutting the time down and taking away the HP.

This way its actually a viable option and this way you don't have to put it in some absurd place.

 

Theres nothing worse then laying down a decoy only to have it get destroyed the next second.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Stormo

[TintedLenz]

What synergy does Banshee have? Sonar isn't synergistic with other powers, its synergistic with weapons and aim. Oh, and Vauban doesn't count, because he synergizes with everything.

 

Enemy is melee. Let's push them away from the pod with Banshee

[AlchemistMute]

 

so you really think Energy Siphon will regen enough so you can spam Radial Disarm/Decoy when lvl200 mobs are swarming you. Aham... :)

 

Energy is not a problem. Loki has 225 base energy that can be increased to 450 with Flow and costs can be reduced by 45% with Streamline and his Essence helmet. Nova, Rhino and Saryn don't have very high energy pools and they have rather expensive abilities. If what the wiki says is true about % decreases just being a number decrease, then you will never run out of energy with 55 energy Radial Disarms and an even cheaper Invisibility.

Making all enemies melee at a low energy cost and then placing a Decoy on a crate where they can't reach it. You can also combine Loki/Vauban to make a T3 Defense feel like an Infested Defense.

Loki is truly the god of manipulation, and the battlefield is his creation.

[Sikab]

   

Energy is not a problem. Loki has 225 base energy that can be increased to 450 with Flow and costs can be reduced by 45% with Streamline and his Essence helmet. Nova, Rhino and Saryn don't have very high energy pools and they have rather expensive abilities. If what the wiki says is true about % decreases just being a number decrease, then you will never run out of energy with 55 energy Radial Disarms and an even cheaper Invisibility.

Making all enemies melee at a low energy cost and then placing a Decoy on a crate where they can't reach it. You can also combine Loki/Vauban to make a T3 Defense feel like an Infested Defense.

Loki is truly the god of manipulation, and the battlefield is his creation.

Nova Doesn't have high Energy pool? Check that Wiki again :)

 

Last time I looked at my Energy... it was 450 (with Flow, obviously).

Edited August 25, 2013 by Sikab

[BoompigXD]

Nova Doesn't have high Energy pool? Check that Wiki again :)

 

Last time I looked at my Energy... it was 450.

I love how you zoomed in on one detail, without even arguing with the rest of his points

[Hayden11121]

I love how you zoomed in on one detail, without even arguing with the rest of his points

That's Sikab for ya!

[AlchemistMute]

Nova Doesn't have high Energy pool? Check that Wiki again :)

 

Last time I looked at my Energy... it was 450 (with Flow, obviously).

Right. But you can only cast it 4 times before you're out.

 

In any case, don't ignore how energy is everywhere and energy cost is not a valid argument for why a Frame is bad. Now don't nitpick and tell me your opinion on the rest of the post.

[BoompigXD]

That's Sikab for ya!

It's not just Sikab. I've seen a lot of people do it on these forums too. 

 

I call it Point Evasion. This happens to turn one flame war into a Completely DIFFERENT FLAME WAR.

[Hayden11121]

Sikab already states in an earlier conversation with me that he will refuse any logic if he doesn't like the person at hand, and he will refuse to change his stubborn ways.

 

Leave him be. There's nothing else we can do.

 

If he wants to think Loki is bad, that's fine. That's one less Loki I'll see ruining the good name of skillful Loki players.

 

No conversation at this point will turn this guys topic, he is debating just to debate. He ignores points he doesn't want to focus on, and goes against his own words.

[Sikab]

I love how you zoomed in on one detail, without even arguing with the rest of his points

Indeed. Zoomed in the most important part. Which is him not knowing something like which Frame has how much Energy...

 

Which is a pretty important factor in a discussion about viability, which is partly based upon Energy usage.

 

Should I also zoom in that how dumb it is, that I had to explain this to some1? Just to cheer you up... You are not alone. (thumbs up, if you don't get it again).

[Sikab]

Right. But you can only cast it 4 times before you're out.

 

In any case, don't ignore how energy is everywhere and energy cost is not a valid argument for why a Frame is bad. Now don't nitpick and tell me your opinion on the rest of the post.

You mean, 6 times... right?

[Hayden11121]

Indeed. Zoomed in the most important part. Which is him not knowing something like which Frame has how much Energy...

 

Which is a pretty important factor in a discussion about viability, which is partly based upon Energy usage.

 

Should I also zoom in that how dumb it is, that I had to explain this to some1? Just to cheer you up... You are not alone. (thumbs up, if you don't get it again).

You should zoom in on the fact M Prime and many other abilities have to be cast multiple times.

 

And radial disarm only needs one cast.

 

 

Zoom in on that. Go ahead. Use a phone camera zoom or a telescope zoom. Go ahead. Focus on that tidbit.

 

Oh wait, it actually makes Loki viable in terms of energy? Disproves your point? Better ignore it!

[BoompigXD]

Indeed. Zoomed in the most important part. Which is him not knowing something like which Frame has how much Energy...

 

Which is a pretty important factor in a discussion about viability, which is partly based upon Energy usage.

 

Should I also zoom in that how dumb it is, that I had to explain this to some1? Just to cheer you up... You are not alone. (thumbs up, if you don't get it again).

Read the bottom of his post

 

Making all enemies melee at a low energy cost and then placing a Decoy on a crate where they can't reach it. You can also combine Loki/Vauban to make a T3 Defense feel like an Infested Defense.

Loki is truly the god of manipulation, and the battlefield is his creation.

[XSuzumeX]

Indeed. Zoomed in the most important part. Which is him not knowing something like which Frame has how much Energy...

 

Which is a pretty important factor in a discussion about viability, which is partly based upon Energy usage.

 

Should I also zoom in that how dumb it is, that I had to explain this to some1? Just to cheer you up... You are not alone. (thumbs up, if you don't get it again).

alright then if thats what it takes to be viable doesnt loki have the best energy efficiency?dam I guess hes more viable than ever due to that fact alone.

[Sikab]

Indeed. Zoomed in the most important part. Which is him not knowing something like which Frame has how much Energy...

 

Which is a pretty important factor in a discussion about viability, which is PARTLY based upon Energy usage.

 

Should I also zoom in that how dumb it is, that I had to explain this to some1? Just to cheer you up... You are not alone. (thumbs up, if you don't get it again).

 

 

alright then if thats what it takes to be viable doesnt loki have the best energy efficiency?dam I guess hes more viable than ever due to that fact alone.

Seems like people are getting sleepy, or just don't care to read the posts properly.

 

Anyways. highlighted my post.

 

"Why ppl try to put words in my mount I didn't said" <-- My thoughts when visiting this topic.

[AlchemistMute]

Using a 35 energy Invisibility (and that's only with Streamline), you can stay invisible for like 15 seconds with Continuity and Constituition. During this time, enemies don't even know where you are and have no reason to shoot you. Add an Essence Helmet and one Siphon is all you need to stay invisible (nigh-invincible, really) forever.

 

A 17 energy Decoy I believe, will draw all attention away from from the pod and players. Melee enemies can't reach the Decoy if it's placed somewhere an enemy can't get to. You can even place it behind a wall and it will still draw attention, making ranged enemies have to move closer to shoot the Decoy. It can last like 30 seconds.

 

With a 70 energy Radial Disarm, you can void the issue with ranged enemies and Decoy, as well as delay all enemy attacks by forcing them to run to their targets. Every enemy within like 20 meters will be given a metal e-pe, err, Prova, and they will attempt to penetra-, err, stab you with it. When you have ranged attacks and enemies don't, the enemy is defenseless. What's even worse is that enemies will leave their cover if there is a Decoy nearby, and melee enemies don't take cover anyway.

 

Abilities discussed. Now let's try synergy:

 

- Using a well placed Decoy and Radial Disarm to clump all enemies into one spot so a 4-nuker can kill them all with ease.

- Decoy behind an Absorb so the Decoy can stay alive and Nyx can reflect all the damage.

- Radial Disarm + Bastille to make Grineer/Corpus defense into T3 defense.

- Decoy's aggro range is much larger than a Vortex, allowing the Vortex to easily suck in enemies if the Decoy is placed by it.

- Stick a bunch of Torid grenades on a Decoy. Equip Cryo Rounds to slow any enemies that walk on the Decoy, allowing it to survive longer. Or just place it in a smart place and stick the Torid clouds where the enemies attempt to reach the Decoy.

- Invisibility is nigh-invincibility and can be used to rezz your teammates with ease.

- Switch Teleport when used responsibly to save a teammate's &amp;#&#33; when they've been knocked down. Then you can pop Invisibility and start cleaving.

Edited August 25, 2013 by AlchemistMute

[avenger5]

Enemy is melee. Let's push them away from the pod with Banshee

 

So Radial Disarm synergizes with Sonic Boom? That works, I guess.

[BoompigXD]

Seems like people are getting sleepy, or just don't care to read the posts properly.

 

Anyways. highlighted my post.

 

"Why ppl try to put words in my mount I didn't said" <-- My thoughts when visiting this topic.

 

You should zoom in on the fact M Prime and many other abilities have to be cast multiple times.

 

And radial disarm only needs one cast.

 

 

Zoom in on that. Go ahead. Use a phone camera zoom or a telescope zoom. Go ahead. Focus on that tidbit.

 

Oh wait, it actually makes Loki viable in terms of energy? Disproves your point? Better ignore it!

[Sikab]

Using a 35 energy Invisibility (and that's only with Streamline), you can stay invisible for like 15 seconds with Continuity and Constituition. During this time, enemies don't even know where you are and have no reason to shoot you. Add an Essence Helmet and one Siphon is all you need to stay invisible (nigh-invincible, really) forever.

 

A 17 energy Decoy I believe, will draw all attention away from from the pod and players. Melee enemies can't reach the Decoy if it's placed somewhere an enemy can't get to. You can even place it behind a wall and it will still draw attention, making ranged enemies have to move closer to shoot the Decoy. It can last like 30 seconds.

 

With a 70 energy Radial Disarm, you can void the issue with ranged enemies and Decoy, as well as delay all enemy attacks by forcing them to run to their targets. Every enemy within like 20 meters will be given a metal e-pe, err, Prova, and they will attempt to penetra-, err, stab you with it. When you have ranged attacks and enemies don't, the enemy is defenseless. What's even worse is that enemies will leave their cover if there is a Decoy nearby, and melee enemies don't take cover anyway.

 

Abilities discussed. Now let's try synergy:

 

- Using a well placed Decoy and Radial Disarm to clump all enemies into one spot so a 4-nuker can kill them all with ease.

- Decoy behind an Absorb so the Decoy can stay alive and Nyx can reflect all the damage.

- Radial Disarm + Bastille to make Grineer/Corpus defense into T3 defense.

- Decoy's aggro range is much larger than a Vortex, allowing the Vortex to easily suck in enemies if the Decoy is placed by it.

- Stick a bunch of Torid grenades on a Decoy. Equip Cryo Rounds to slow any enemies that walk on the Decoy, allowing it to survive longer. Or just place it in a smart place and stick the Torid clouds where the enemies attempt to reach the Decoy.

- Invisibility is nigh-invincibility and can be used to rezz your teammates with ease.

- Switch Teleport when used responsibly to save a teammate's &amp;#&#33; when they've been knocked down. Then you can pop Invisibility and start cleaving.

Finally a proper post by some1.

 

While I see the Pros that you brought up

 

I also see Cons.

 

1a: lvl200ish Mobs don't care about Decoy. They 1hit it if placed Legitly.

1b: If placed under a stair/inside a wall/anywhere not intended is exploit, and I won't consider it as a Pro.

 

2: Bastille is able to turn anything into a T3 Defense by itself.

 

3: Torid Grenades+Decoy --> See "1a"

 

4: Invisibility... It's pros are it's cons. If some1 dies when lvl200ish mobs are 1hitting you guys, it means mobs are too close to either the squad or the Pod... either way it's a loss.

 

5: Switch Teleport: True, no Cons. On a side note... If some1 needs to be Switch Teleport to save his &amp;#&#33; it means A: He was badly positioned and away from the Pod... B: ........... Nope. He was bad and probably ded waaay before reaching End-game lvl.

 

----------------------

 

@Boompig: Quoting Hayden just makes me ignore your posts (as I just instantly jump through his posts without reading).

 

I'm sure you have your own thoughts. Now share them with me. Quoting some1 else to express yourself is not a good impression. I don't bite (just a little). But keep in mind... I always reply in the same tone as some1 talks with me.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Sikab

[AlchemistMute]

Finally a proper post by some1.

 

While I see the Pros that you brought up

 

I also see Cons.

 

1a: lvl200ish Mobs don't care about Decoy. They 1hit it if placed Legitly.

1b: If placed under a stair/inside a wall/anywhere not intended is exploit, and I won't consider it as a Pro.

 

2: Bastille is able to turn anything into a T3 Defense by itself.

 

3: Torid Grenades+Decoy --> See "1a"

 

4: Invisibility... It's pros are it's cons. If some1 dies when lvl200ish mobs are 1hitting you guys, it means mobs are too close to either the squad or the Pod... either way it's a loss.

 

5: Switch Teleport: True, no Cons. On a side note... If some1 needs to be Switch Teleport to save his &amp;#&#33; it means A: He was badly positioned and away from the Pod... B: ........... Nope. He was bad and probably ded waaay before reaching End-game lvl.

1a: Did you ignore the 13 billion times I said that placing a Decoy where it is inaccessible by melee enemies and then using Radial Disarm to make all enemies is the best way to circumvent this issue?

1b: What do you mean not intended? A Decoy draws attention at the highest possible pull the game has. As long as an enemy is within it's range, they will forget everything and attempt to attack it. It is not an exploit and the developers are fully aware of the unrealistic aggro pull.

 

2: Bastille only works if enemies are within range. The range is rather small. Enemies can still shoot through the Bastille. But what happens when the enemies don't have a gun? They have to come into the Bastille seizure cage and be lifted up and helpless.

 

3: Did you ignore the 13 billion times I said that placing a Decoy where it is inaccessible by melee enemies and then using Radial Disarm to make all enemies melee is the best way to circumvent this issue? Really, place the Torid clouds where the enemies will be, as they'll all be clumped up against a crate, trying to reach the Decoy.

 

4: Or it can mean someone made a mistake or a F***-up, or wasn't paying much attention, or simply the enemy had a gun and they weren't within view. In any case, enemies must get in view if they are all melee, which Loki will make sure they are, so no one will die really.

 

You mustn't nitpick, either. The pro is that you can be nigh-invincible for 15 seconds. This is not a con. The con is how one uses it, and that's more of an issue with the team being unable to keep enemies back. This doesn't happen with Bastille and Radial Disarm anyway.

 

5: Never said he died. Almost everyone has issues with Ancients or anything similar that can knock you on your &amp;#&#33; from behind. I typically don't, but it happens to many people. This doesn't mean he died, it just means he is about to. Therefore the "save your teammate's &amp;#&#33;" part.

 

This is a nice discussion. :3

Edited August 25, 2013 by AlchemistMute

[Sikab]

1a: Did you ignore the 13 billion times I said that placing a Decoy where it is inaccessible by melee enemies and then using Radial Disarm to make all enemies is the best way to circumvent this issue?

1b: What do you mean not intended? A Decoy draws attention at the highest possible pull the game has. As long as an enemy is within it's range, they will forget everything and attempt to attack it. It is not an exploit and the developers are fully aware of the unrealistic aggro pull.

 

2: Bastille only works if enemies are within range. The range is rather small. Enemies can still shoot through the Bastille. But what happens when the enemies don't have a gun? They have to come into the Bastille seizure cage and be lifted up and helpless.

 

3: Did you ignore the 13 billion times I said that placing a Decoy where it is inaccessible by melee enemies and then using Radial Disarm to make all enemies melee is the best way to circumvent this issue? Really, place the Torid clouds where the enemies will be, as they'll all be clumped up against a crate, trying to reach the Decoy.

 

4: Or it can mean someone made a mistake or a F***-up, or wasn't paying much attention, or simply the enemy had a gun and they were within view. In any case, enemies must get in view if they are all melee, which Loki will make sure they are, so no one will die really.

 

You mustn't nitpick, either. The pro is that you can be nigh-invincible for 15 seconds. This is not a con. The con is how one uses it, and that's more of an issue with the team being unable to keep enemies back. This doesn't happen with Bastille and Radial Disarm anyway.

 

5: Never said he died. Almost everyone has issues with Ancients or anything similar that can knock you on your &amp;#&#33; from behind. I typically don't, but it happens to many people. This doesn't mean he died, it just means he is about to. Therefore the "save your teammate's &amp;#&#33;" part.

 

This is a nice discussion. :3

Didn't ignored it. I'm just not playing inviting Lokis to Defense, or drag down a team by playing 1 in Defense when I have much better Frames maxed out. So I'm not sure mobs can reach up, or not.

 

I described what is not intended.

 

Did plenty of Defense missions up to wave 100. 1 thing I learned. You can't make mistakes. 1 mistake and your team is as good as dead.

If some1 wants to reach that high in Defense he needs 2 things

 

1: Being able to concentrate for loads of hours

2: Not to F*** up.

 

What I consider good for End-game? Vauban, Nova, Frost <--- These 3 are a most have for me... then Rhino, Banshee, Trinity. MAYBE Saryn if there's no1 playing the last 3.

 

Anything else not listed is considered junk by me :)

Edited August 25, 2013 by Sikab