Impressions on PVP - By a new Conclaver

[disco_inferno6]

Dear DE,

I'm an avid player of your pve mode for sever thousands of hours now.

I have quite a lot of experience with your movement mechanics and damage system.

Recently I've decided to give conclave a look.

I've looked into its damage system and became fairly accustomed to its movement mechanics and modding.

I haven't had the time yet to look into your weapon stances or other details. I suppose I'll do that as I go along.

 

Here is my experience of it. (and it's not good at all)

 

 

When (and IF) I manage to find other players in Public mode,

there is usually a band of 4-8 people, among whom there are always 1,2 or 3 experienced players OR Cheese toxic trolls in there, that make the experience completely miserable to newcomers.

 

(NOTE: When I find people that are inexperienced, I do exactly the opposite. I always leave them ample breathing room in order for them to enjoy and learn).

 

It's always the same FEW people (probably about 5-10 of them in the Europe server) with 25 kills per match. You enter your first daily match and you gotta be at 100% of alertness in order to just survive.

Then there's those (about 5-10 of them too) that deploy cheese tactics like Loki Decoy aimbot+Arcaplasmor (causing a massive rad proc to everyone on top of its massive damage)

or Ignis (blinding you and revealing you in the map for everyone to see) or Atomos or sonicor+glaive throw or Vauban mines with their massive damage etc etc etc. Those are often impossible to evade especially if the cheese trolls can move fast or simply due to spamming.

 

As a result of the above (10-20 players overall), there is so much crossfire and disruption, that it becomes impossible to a newcomer to stay in such a match and learn something out of it.

 

There are even players who make 2nd accounts just for Conclave in order to appear inexperienced and join matches with inexperienced players.

 

There is also the issue of ping. Sometimes, I find I shoot and there is zero damage registering.

 

I very much prefer to do Conclave with Friends. But many of them (among those few that have heard of it), have had such a bad experience on Conclave when they first tried it,

they don't even want to give it a second try.

 

After I manage to get all mods and cosmetics, I'm afraid I won't touch that gamemode again.

I'm sorry to say such a thing but it is how I honestly feel about it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[WorstPlayer]

Keep in mind that it's a PvE focused game and that won't ever change. Most people would rather fight giant 100m tall aliens by blasting them with void energy instead of go around fighting each other with nerfed weapons.

The likelihood of PvP improvements is very slim and even then, it'll be for revamped Dark Sector when it comes OnedayTM

Edited August 13, 2018 by -Enigma

[disco_inferno6]

2 hours ago, -Enigma said:

Keep in mind that it's a PvE focused game and that won't ever change. Most people would rather fight giant 100m tall aliens by blasting them with void energy instead of go around fighting each other with nerfed weapons.

The likelihood of PvP improvements is very slim and even then, it'll be for revamped Dark Sector when it comes OnedayTM

 

In my opinion, the biggest problem is that many (of the few) people that play it systematically, don't leave room for newcomers.

It's as if they don't want them to learn.

Everything else can be patched (including the broken strats I've mentioned above and I'm sure there are more).

But you can't patch the toxic mindset.

 

I don't mind competition. Not at all.

But where there is no learning curve, there is no game.

And the funny thing is that conclave becomes unbearable because of 15-20 people that frequent it (at least the Europe server)

and are either bad mannered experienced players or cheese trolls.

Edited August 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[iMessier57]

Conclave shouldn't exist, but those skins are too good to pass..

 

Also this:

[Nazrethim]

hace 18 horas, disco_inferno6 dijo:

 

In my opinion, the biggest problem is that many (of the few) people that play it systematically, don't leave room for newcomers.

It's as if they don't want them to learn.

Actually, if you type asking for help it's not rare to get some replies and starting a friendly chat (all while trying not to die. Which makes for crash course in Laconic speech hahaha)

We used to have a "Players Helping Players Conclave" where there were detailed guides and charts, but DE merged it with regular PHP and those threads ended up buried (most of them are outdated anyway).

Once you get over the very steep difficulty curve, it gets better.

Cita

I don't mind competition. Not at all.

But where there is no learning curve, there is no game.

Well, there is a curve, it's just very very steep, at least if you haven't mastered all the mobility tricks the game has to offer. Conclave, while faster than most pvp games, it's in fact slower than PvE. You can practice your basics in PvE first then jump into the Conclave. It works both ways too, so once you get the hold of Conclave, you can apply all the skills into PvE, which is handy.

Cita

And the funny thing is that conclave becomes unbearable because of 15-20 people that frequent it (at least the Europe server)

and are either bad mannered experienced players or cheese trolls.

You may consider turning off Recruit conditioning. It will  pair you with the more experienced players of higher ranks, but you can get more useful tips from them (hell, if you stop to type you usually just get killed accidentally, which is, again usually, followed by an apology) Again, laconic speech highly recomended.

 

Here are some video guides a saint made, they are old, but very useful.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Nazrethim

[disco_inferno6]

On 2018-08-14 at 7:16 AM, Nazrethim said:

-snip-

 

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Thank you for taking the time to help.

I'd like to clarify a bit more.

To be fair, I've come across a few people that gave it a pause and tried to help or show a few things. Nearly all of them on 1 on 1 matches.

In total, it's 3 people that helped.

The rest kept pressing on.

 

When it comes to cheese trolls, if I remember correctly, they're been a few that stopped using the ignis when I asked them.

But the vast majority of them replied back "Idc" or "get gud" or "lol".

 

And to clarify a bit more about myself in order to understand if I'm exaggerating or not:

I am very experienced with the pve movement system and was able to implement that into conclave pretty quickly.

I can barerly stay afloat now in matches with vets. But the problem is that I don't enjoy those matches.

Now imagine a new player, who doesn't have ANY experience in the game.

The learning curve is so steep (as you say) that the vast majority of the people will quit the gamemode long before they give it a serious look.

 

I think that the best way is to isolate the vets and the cheese trolls so that they can destroy their own game.

It's only a bunch of 20 people per server anyway.

Until then, pvp will never flourish.

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[2035]

I play alot of shooters and imo, mixing vets and newcomers can work out wonderfuly and provide varying but a very much complete experiance so long as there's a reasonable player base at most times, decent server/selection and reasonable developments to the game

[srkm00b]

I'm also a new conclaver. Just started earlier this week. There are some things that are pretty annoying I've seen so far.. Most notably the bloom on the Ignis. The learning curve does seem to be very steep, but that's to be expected in PVP games. Those people with 30 kills have been playing conclave probably as long as you've been playing PVE so of course the skill gap is enormous. Not many other shooters I've played really feel like they compare to Conclave either.. Hawken and (from a long long time ago) GunZ really being the only ones that feel close. 

Admittedly, the game mode is far from perfect, but I'll be damned if it isn't fun. It's also helping out my movement skills in the PVE side as well. But that doesn't compare to the feeling you get when you finally kill that vet with a Halikar + Lex combo, even if he killed you 10 times before. 

I'll admit, at first I just wanted the fancy cosmetics, but if that was my sole goal and the mode didn't feel fun, I'd probably just quit.

[(PSN)toktheyounger]

I'm new to the whole game and love playing conclave as much as anything since starting the game because i enjoy it. Nothing to do with cosmetics or rewards in any way. And while what i may say here will sound whiney its not intended that way, my overall conclave experience is just fine and as should be expected tbh.  Its just a new players present view of the situation.

Conclave is by far one of the  most exciting pvp experiences I've ever had. The movement is awesome, the gun-play is great, and I really like most of the maps, and I like the progression system just fine. (And just to make sure this is obvious..I am that stubborn old git who will keep playing and keep chasing those mlg players in order to learn and get better, but can easily see why there's not a whole lot of players in here atm.)

There are things that are really frustrating to me. Like its been said above I keep coming up against the same people all the time. This is probably just due to player numbers but, like has been said before, some of these folks are pretty good, and even though I have recruit conditioning on, i keep going up against a few players who are obviously so much better than me I have to wonder if recruit conditioning is actually a thing.
There does only seem to be a few names on the eu server (player numbers are low obviously). It is extremely hard to learn though when the higher skilled players just keep using the same abilities and one shot weapons I cant use yet. While this is a classic scrub whine for not improving, its is relevant here when you consider the sheer amount of different abilities and weapons available, and how much a new player would know about them etc..If i were to offer any suggestion it could only realistically be to block the use of certain weapons and frames that are only available after gaining the higher mastery ranks, in the recruit conditioning matches, but admit I do not have enough actuall game time to say if this is worth pursuing.

Also, I think its quite disgusting that a few players go into solo annihilation and even though they are highly skilled, I mean seriously better than anyone else in the lobby, they blatantly team in a solo mode. This is extremely off putting too. I mean I seriously don't want to run more matches to finish my dailies because, well, why would you subject yourself to that again? And this is one thing guaranteed to get some toxicity started. Even though I have seen the children do this thousands of times, it still frustrates me to see someone acting so pathetic as to get enjoyment from ruining others experiences just so they can have high kill numbers. Lets say that's why they do it because if we start getting into what sort of person this makes them in real life I wont stop ranting. This obviously is a very sore subject for me sorry, but will leave this paragraph in here.

For me the worst thing is the lag. I shoot and shoot and they take no damage even though my reticle is bang on their back, then Im dead and they are facing me, then teleporting 30 yards to the left. While this is down to a mix of player numbers, locations and their own internet's performance, ( i do recognize that some of the jumps and frame abilities coupled with regular lag will make this seem exaggerated at times) it cant be denied that it has a very negative impact on enjoyment. But its also sadly clear that there simply aren't enough regular players for any real connection based system to be put into effect.

While I recognize this game is a pve game with a bit of pvp thrown in, it would be amazing to see some sort of pvp focus on building numbers with the future intent of being able to implement a more connection based matchmaking system. I say this because I honestly feel if new players had more opportunity to go against similar skilled players and grow in conclave early on, it would increase numbers, which would eventually lead to a more satisfying experience for all ( Again, Ive had my ass handed to me a bunch and I will keep playing, this is more along the lines of feedback than an actual rant.)

It is a shame conclave is in the shape its in. It really could be one of the greatest pvp experiences anyone could want. But this is a pve game and its just what it is i suppose. I hope no one take this as attempt to alter a pve game into a pvp one. Its just an old man talking about a part of the game he's particularly passionate about.