De: Buff Blind Rage (Reasoing And Math Inside)

[Monolake]

We all know that fixed damage abilities don't scale into higher leves. But guns do? ... yeah its all about mods. Weapon mods stack making the damage higher up to 30-60 times!

Frame abilities on the other hand cant be moded as much, there is very little progress: only 3 ranks in ability and then only 2 power strength mods for 129% total -  that is nothing when enemies health scales much more dramatic with armor on top of that (In fact damage abilities have negative scaling vs armored enemies: enemies gain more health AND you do less damage at the same time)

 

Blind Rage is supposed to be long-term progress for players ability power, its a rare10 mod meaning it is very expensive to rank up, only veterans have enough resources to do that. But it only gives twice the strength for x1.55  higher energy cost making it inefficient, it makes more sense to use max efficiency Fleeting build on almost every frame to spam lower strength abilities  than to equip Blind Rage.

 

 

Blind Rage should be buffed to provide higher bonus, to sum-up reasons/benefits:

 

- better scaling of fixed number abilities (both offensive and defensive)

- more defined long-term player progress gaining power from ranking up very expensive mod

- more validity of power strength builds (as opposed to predominant efficiency builds now) 

 

 

Question is: how much should it be buffed? Im sure DE designers can make a better decision on that by comparing all the numbers and combinations of mods and abilities and enemies EHP, I simply don't have all the information it takes, but just comparing efficiency build (with Focus) vs  power build (efficiency+Blind rage)

 

base ability:      100 enegry 1000 dmg

efficiency build: 25 energy 1300 dmg = 52 dmg per energy

power build:      65 energy 2290 dmg  = 35.2 dmg per energy

 

 And if you take Fleeting out of the equation then dmg per energy would be almost the same (~18.57 and 18.32), still meaning Blind Rage is hardly worth a slot on powers that can be used repetitively (like Snowglobe or any nuke)

  Blind Rage should be buffed 2.1 times to stop being inefficient and to be worth using universally (thats not even considering the mod slot/point cost and duration)

 

(edit: forgot to account for Focus aka Intensify)

Edited March 4, 2014 by Monolake

[LoRd_MePh1sTo]

At least add another power strengh mod, we have 3 for duration , 2 for range , 2 for efficency, we want 3 for strengh :P

[Genoscythe]

At least add another power strengh mod, we have 3 for duration , 2 for range , 2 for efficency, we want 3 for strengh :P

 

I would really like to see a mod that gives 2 positive stats, we have this for weapons but not for warframes, maybe even "legendary" mods that have 20 mod points cost or something.

 

 If its about mods, warframes do always have less. Why does DE concetrate so much on guns and lets Warframes rot? This game is called Warframe and not Borderlands!

 

Also +1 to OP, Warframe mods must be worth it!

Edited March 4, 2014 by Genoscythe

[SchizoPills]

some skills benefit on an insane level from it

banshee sonar is probably the best example.

you have a point, dont get me wrong. but aslong as frames have such a huge range of various powers you can never achieve balance or efficiency.

[Blazer-X]

Yeah, Blind Rage's use is pretty limited at the moment. It's only "useful" in powers that are not only scaling up in raw damage. Which leaves us with: Accelerant, Shield Polarize, War Cry, Sonar, and pretty much anything that is % increase based, which isn't all that many choices involved. 

Edited March 4, 2014 by Blazer-X

[LoRd_MePh1sTo]

I would really like to see a mod that gives 2 positive stats, we have this for weapons but not for warframes, maybe even "legendary" mods that have 20 mod points cost or something.

 

 If its about mods, warframes do always have less. Why does DE concetrate so much on guns and lets Warframes rot? This game is called Warframe and not Borderlands!

 

Also +1 to OP, Warframe mods must be worth it!

 

Yes something like a unique mod with 20/25 cost hat give strengh and efficency or something so... +1 for idea

[Monolake]

My bad I did the math wrong, forgetting about Focus (Intensity now), Blind Rage should be 2.1 times better to not be inefficient.

[Juvieus_Kaine]

Part of me says no to upgrading Blind Rage for one reason - Ironskin. Ironskin uses Power Strength to calculate damage mitigation, so getting more for the same cost or the same for a lower cost just breaks it.

 

Base Maxed Ironskin = 1200 damage mitigation

Maxed Ironskin + Maxed Blind Rage = ~2400 damage mitigation

Maxed Ironskin + Maxed Blind Rage + Maxed Intensify (Focus) = ~2700 damage mitigation.

 

And you want more? O.o"

[Monolake]

some skills benefit on an insane level from it

banshee sonar is probably the best example.

you have a point, dont get me wrong. but aslong as frames have such a huge range of various powers you can never achieve balance or efficiency.

 

Yeah, Blind Rage's use is pretty limited at the moment. It's only "useful" in powers that are not only scaling up in raw damage. Which leaves us with: Accelerant, Shield Polarize, War Cry, Sonar, and pretty much anything that is % increase based, which isn't all that many choices involved. 

 

Thats a good point and needs to be considered. Power strength benefits powers that amplify weapons damage much more. This only underlines the disbalance of %based abilities/weapon damage buffs and simple fixed damage nukes.  But Blind Rage gives no benefit to powers that can be used repetitively for more effect (ie you'd rather stack many cheap Globes or spam Oberons's abilities than use Blind Rage for more strenght but higher cost). 

Solution could be making power strength affect those scaling abilities 2x less, or not affect multiplier at all (like for Nova ATM and M-prime) as much as I hate inconsistencies accross the system, maybe some one could come with better idea. 

Edited March 4, 2014 by Monolake

[LukeAura]

Good old percentage based scaling.
Blind rage reaches optimal usefulness most of the time at rank 2 with both efficiency mods at max rank. 3 Warframes can(well, not really) make optimal use of Blind Rage at higher ranks due to stat helmets, Loki, Nyx, Banshee without sacrificing efficiency.The only one that can actually make decent use of the increase is Banshee, who can use up to rank 4 before hitting the optimal level.

Other Frames that have niche uses to Blind Rage builds are ones that have powers that scale doubly with power strength to offset the reduction in efficiency, or who have powers that can't stack upon themselves. Excalibur, Power strength increases damage per javelin and javelin count, and super jump which can only be used once before landing. Oberon, Power Strength increase Smite particle count and damage. Iron Skin being infinite duration makes use of it, as well as I believe the combination of Roar+Stomp but I'm crunching the numbers right now for that. Spammable powers don't see gains from using Blind Rage, other powers do though.

Edit; Crunched Roar+Stomp Numbers
Max Efficiency Stomp+Roar DpE =27
Max Efficiency+Intensify stomp DpE=42
Max Efficiency+Intensify stomp+roar DpE=46
Max Efficiency+Max Power stomp+roar DpE=55
Max Efficiency+Optimal Power stomp+roar DpE = 67 *Blind rage = Rank 2.

Edit2; Monolake changed Blind Rage calculations if I understand him right. Buffing every level 2 times its current bonus to power strength, just for fun. 
Max Efficiency+Optimal Power stomp+roar DpE = 93
Max Efficiency+Max Power stomp+roar DpE=113 
Which I think says a lot. It fixes the pointless levels after rank 2, but now you're looking at a massive power increase in numbers at Optimal levels even. The difference between the third best build and the second is now a difference of almost 50 points. You'll see less extremes on abilities that don't stack multiplicatively though. 

 

Edited March 4, 2014 by LukeAura

[Leuca]

I'll admit the only frame I use it on is my Mag because you only get one shot with Shield Polarize on any given Corpus mob, so making it count is important.

[Blazer-X]

Part of me says no to upgrading Blind Rage for one reason - Ironskin. Ironskin uses Power Strength to calculate damage mitigation, so getting more for the same cost or the same for a lower cost just breaks it.

 

Base Maxed Ironskin = 1200 damage mitigation

Maxed Ironskin + Maxed Blind Rage = ~2400 damage mitigation

Maxed Ironskin + Maxed Blind Rage + Maxed Intensify (Focus) = ~2700 damage mitigation.

 

And you want more? O.o"

 

I don't agree with this notion, because you are sacrificing a lot of efficiency for this. Yes, you can have ~2700 damage mitigation for 32.5 energy, but you could have easily gotten ~1560 for 12.5 energy if you just used Focus, Fleeting, and Streamline. Which, by the way, gives you 3120 damage mitigation at 25 energy.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Blazer-X

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Consider though that increased damage could potentially drop TTK to a single shot of the ability, making it more efficient.  Thus, it is plenty powerful, unless we are trying to balance it against survival which isn't supposed to be balanced anyways.

[Monolake]

Part of me says no to upgrading Blind Rage for one reason - Ironskin. Ironskin uses Power Strength to calculate damage mitigation, so getting more for the same cost or the same for a lower cost just breaks it.

 

Base Maxed Ironskin = 1200 damage mitigation

Maxed Ironskin + Maxed Blind Rage = ~2400 damage mitigation

Maxed Ironskin + Maxed Blind Rage + Maxed Intensify (Focus) = ~2700 damage mitigation.

 

And you want more? O.o"

That's a problem of Iron skin being OP at low-mid level. Against lvl30+ its not much. 

 

Consider though that increased damage could potentially drop TTK to a single shot of the ability, making it more efficient.  Thus, it is plenty powerful, unless we are trying to balance it against survival which isn't supposed to be balanced anyways.

Yes, time spent to recast ability should be considered, making Blind Rage more time-efficient in some cases, but not in general. Many abilities wont kill mid level (~lvl20) armored units even with maxed Blind Rage.

[Eric1738]

u sacrifice efficiency for higher dps(that's the whole point of blind rage!). i dont really see the problem there. 

also corrupted mods do not follow the rule that "max rank is the best". they are about balancing pros and cons, fitting to ur own playstyle. if u think rank 10 blind rage is too expensive, u can always keep it at rank 8, which is easily affordable. i even use a rank 2 blind rage sometimes

Edited March 5, 2014 by Eric1738