Change Multishot

[Oberonight]

I believe multishot is a little gimmicky if not broken currently. 

Multishot is only good when you have alot of it which is partly the reason why secondaries perform much better than primaries.

They get 180% (assuming you're running the standard Barrel Diff + Lethal Torrent combo) which translates into 1 extra bullet and an 80% chance for another bullet on top of that which means a guaranteed 100% bonus damage and status chance along with an 80% chance for an additional 100% bonus damage and status chance all for a total of 300% damage and status chance on the weapon.

 

However Split chamber is pitiful standing at 90%.

Yes you have a 90% chance to double your damage and status chance but in high tier missions this takes on a much darker meaning. You have a 10% chance to deal half damage which is absolutely crippling to most primaries used in high tier content.

Think about the Paris Prime that only shoots 1 arrow at a time or snipers which are supposed to be one-shot one kill.

Thanks to Split Chamber's low value, you have a 10% chance of not dealing enough damage to kill that Bombard or Heavy Gunner at 40+ minutes in T4 Survival. Even worse, there are nullifiers to make single shot weapons even more useless.

 

Hell's Chamber isn't so bad since it's above 100% but what about that 20% left? The chance is so small that there isn't a reason to go above rank 4 on it and shotguns are already known to be incredibly weak.

 

Yet Secondaries, especially the Synoid Gammacor, dominate high tier content since they are guaranteed to deal atleast double or triple damage with very little risk.

 

So as it stands now, Multishot is what dominates a weapon's usefulness but it still very gimmicky as it is largely based on RNG.

 

So my solution is to modify how Multishot works and what it means.

 

Instead of having a chance to shoot another bullet, any amount of multishot, whether it is 1% or 1000%, will cause your weapon to fire an additional shot, but at a cost.

(going above 100% will add another shot.)

Multishot causes your gun to fire additional shots at a modified value based on the multishot given.

 

For example, Split Chamber would give my gun a 100% chance to shoot another shot; however, this additional shot will have 90% of the original shot's status chance and damage value. 

So essentially, +90% Multishot = +90% damage and status chance.

This would be a huge buff to rifles as they are longer based on RNG and can pump out consistent damage now.

 

Hell's Chamber would cause your gun to shoot 2 additional shots, one at 100% of the original's value and another at 20% of the original's value. This would buff Shotguns and make their damage much more consistent similar to rifles while justifying the need to go above rank 4 on Hell's Chamber.

EDIT: completely forgot about pellet count my bad.

 

Barrel Diffusion + Lethal Torrent would cause 2 additional shots to be fired, 1 at 100% value and the other at 80% value.

This would slightly nerf Secondaries since instead of having a high chance to deal 300% damage they would always deal a consistent 280% damage, but secondaries already dominate the game so this isn't much to worry about.

 

What this change would do is buff all rifles but slightly nerf secondaries while fixing a interesting yet gimmicky mechanic.

 

Let me know what you all think about this potential fix!

 

 

 

EDIT: forgot about Archwings lol. This is important for them too since Dual-Rounds only provides 30% Multishot.

This means that 70% of the time, the mod does not even work and is useless.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Oberonight

[Prime]

sounds good... though I have to say that the Secondary nerf isn't real.... ^^

[BoomToon43]

I agree with this but you forgot to mention scattered justice with its +200% multishot for the hek, making it +320% with both,

Edit: shotguns multishot is actually way better, will rifles and pistols have a chance of firing a 2nd shot(or 3rd for pistols) the shotguns are multiplied by their pellets so like you with your saying it the hek for example fires 7 pellets at base but shoot 9 with multishot with a %20 of firing a 9th but actually it brings it up to 15.4 pellets so 15 with a 40% of firing a 16th and with scattered justice it's 29 pellets with a 40% chance of firing a 30th

Edited January 2, 2015 by BoomToon43

[Anarchel]

Funny idea. Tho I don't really see any issue, since 90% are actually quite reliable in my eyes.

Side note: Shotguns work differently. They shoot a certain amount of pellets. Like, 10 pellets per round. So 120% multishot gives 12 additional pellets. Thus your idea would do nearly to nothing for shotguns.

[Oberonight]

I agree with this but you forgot to mention scattered justice with its +200% multishot for the hek, making it +320% with both

That's not really important though since the 200% is guaranteed. The 20% is not and will rarely proc which is the main problem with Multishot.

 

Funny idea. Tho I don't really see any issue, since 90% are actually quite reliable in my eyes.

Side note: Shotguns work differently. They shoot a certain amount of pellets. Like, 10 pellets per round. So 120% multishot gives 12 additional pellets. Thus your idea would do nearly to nothing for shotguns.

It's still a static damage and status increase for shotguns regardless and makes Hell's Chamber worth more.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Oberonight

[Makya]

That's not really important though since the 200% is guaranteed. The 20% is not and will rarely proc which is the main problem with Multishot.

Not quite.. Shotgun multishot /is/ mostly reliable. It's a pellet multiplier not really a shell multiplier. If you have 320% multi shot and 10 pellets, you now fire 42, every shot. It gets funny when you fire lower count shots like 3 pellet shotguns with 120% multishot fire 6 or 7 pellets, not a leap between 6 or 9 unless I'm sorely mistaken.

 

As for the OP, nice idea

Edited January 2, 2015 by Makya

[akira_him]

I think you have misunderstanding here

Shotgun damage in UI = pellet count*damage per pellet

Which means hell's chamber is already adding 120% damage to one shot

[Anarchel]

Ok, again: You shoot 10 pellets. You have 120% multishot. 10*220%=22. That means 22 pellets per shot. Guaranteed. Every time. It will only be useful for weapons with, say, 8 pellets. Since 8*220%=17.i'm-too-lazy-to-calculate.

Your fix still does way less for shotguns than for primaries and secondaries.

[Oberonight]

Ok, again: You shoot 10 pellets. You have 120% multishot. 10*220%=22. That means 22 pellets per shot. Guaranteed. Every time. It will only be useful for weapons with, say, 8 pellets. Since 8*220%=17.i'm-too-lazy-to-calculate.

Your fix still does way less for shotguns than for primaries and secondaries.

K I forgot about pellet count my bad. In this case the old Multishot will be kept ONLY on shotguns and renamed from "+120% Multishot" to "+120% Pellet Count" 

Two separate mechanics will exist.

 

The main target for the fix is Split Chamber. (Dual-Rounds too but I don't play AW.)

[Azawarau]

90% isnt pitiful

 

Only slow fire weapons have a chance to suffer from that.

 

For shotguns youre calling a 20% chance to deal ore damage bad and having that be a reason not to rank it? That just doesnt make sense. Its extra damage and theres no real reason not to rank it

 

Why not mention the 20% chance that secondaries dont deal extra damage when primaries only have 10%

 

Theres alot wrong with just the beginning of your post that makes me not want to hop on board

[Oberonight]

90% isnt pitiful

 

Only slow fire weapons have a chance to suffer from that.

The problem is that there is a 10% chance that all the cores/platinum/creds that you dumped into Split Chamber will be rendered completely useless.

There is an RNG value that can make your grind for Split Chamber worthless and this is completely out of the player's control.

It's not as much of an issue with Secondaries since they already have 2 guaranteed shots but still the above logic applies to them. (albeit with 20% instead of 10%)

Plus Slow fire weapons suffer ALOT from that since that small 10% chance of not making a second shot decides whether or not that one level 200+ Bombard dies or not; it's pretty much the reason, along with nullifiers, why why low fire rate weapons are used less than the Godmode weapons like Boltor Prime and Soma Prime.

 

I just simply want to make this mechanic not based on pure luck regardless of how good or bad said luck is.

All mods should provide some static increase of some sort that is not completely dominated by RNG and is out of the player's control.

[Azawarau]

The problem is that there is a 10% chance that all the cores/platinum/creds that you dumped into Split Chamber will be rendered completely useless.

There is an RNG value that can make your grind for Split Chamber worthless and this is completely out of the player's control.

It's not as much of an issue with Secondaries since they already have 2 guaranteed shots but still the above logic applies to them. (albeit with 20% instead of 10%)

Plus Slow fire weapons suffer ALOT from that since that small 10% chance of not making a second shot decides whether or not that one level 200+ Bombard dies or not; it's pretty much the reason, along with nullifiers, why why low fire rate weapons are used less than the Godmode weapons like Boltor Prime and Soma Prime.

 

I just simply want to make this mechanic not based on pure luck regardless of how good or bad said luck is.

All mods should provide some static increase of some sort that is not completely dominated by RNG and is out of the player's control.

Youre making it out to be worse than it is though

 

Comparatively speaking the difference between having split chamber and not having it is huge

[Oberonight]

Comparatively speaking the difference between having split chamber and not having is huge

Not having Split Chamber is indeed a massive DPS loss so there is all the more reason to change it because I have a 10% chance of not having it even though I have it........which just does not make any sense from a design standpoint.

 

Why should I have a RNG chance of my DPS being halved and all my cores spent on that mod being rendered useless?

[Azawarau]

Not having Split Chamber is indeed a massive DPS loss so there is all the more reason to change it because I have a 10% chance of not having it even though I have it........which just does not make any sense from a design standpoint.

 

Why should I have a RNG chance of my DPS being halved and all my cores spent on that mod being rendered useless?

Because theres a 90% chance that it doubles your damage and increases status that you wouldnt have had otherwise

 

I know how terrible that is for slow weapons but thats a general issue they tend to have between that and critical. There are probably better solutions that simply buffing this mod

 

For most guns in most situations its not much of an issue

 

For the ones that it is a make or break for there can be something done to help

 

I feel like false choice mods such as these in general are a real issue and increasing that wont help much

[Oberonight]

There are probably better solutions that simply buffing this mod

I feel like false choice mods such as these in general are a real issue and increasing that wont help much

Okay based on the wording you utilize, you obviously did not even read any of the OP.

I don't want to "simply" buff Split Chamber nor do I want to increase multishot values in the first place

Here I'll just copy paste it since you didn't read it anyway.

Actually read the OP before you pollute the thread.

"Instead of having a chance to shoot another bullet, any amount of multishot, whether it is 1% or 1000%, will cause your weapon to fire an additional shot, but at a cost.

(going above 100% will add another shot.)

Multishot causes your gun to fire additional shots at a modified value based on the multishot given."

Edited January 2, 2015 by Oberonight

[Azawarau]

Okay based on the wording you utilize, you obviously did not even read any of the OP.

I don't want to "simply" buff Split Chamber nor do I want to increase multishot values in the first place

Here I'll just copy paste it since you didn't read it anyway.

Actually read the OP before you pollute the thread.

"Instead of having a chance to shoot another bullet, any amount of multishot, whether it is 1% or 1000%, will cause your weapon to fire an additional shot, but at a cost.

(going above 100% will add another shot.)

Multishot causes your gun to fire additional shots at a modified value based on the multishot given."

I read the OP and was replying directly to what you were saying and not  the OP

 

If you want i can continue to point out issues with that instead

 

Ive already mentioned adding false choice mods a few times

 

And before you talk about polluting anything you should think about what youre saying and what might be wrong with it

 

Youve polluted your on thread with this wasted post pointing out nothing

Edited January 3, 2015 by Azawarau

[Oberonight]

I read the OP and was replying directly to what you were saying and not  the OP

 What I directly said was based on the OP so if you did not base your post off of the OP than it is flawed in this argument.

 

However, I am not wasting anymore time explaining things to you.

Everytime you post, you always get something wrong and then I have to restate and re-explain information from the OP to explain to you over and over again.

I am NOT going to risk fixing Multishot explaining things to you like you're a toddler and then have you turn this thread into a silly battle of keyboard knights.

I've explained my point to you and you just flat out cannot comprehend what i'm saying.

If you still feel the need to argue than send me a PM. Otherwise, I am not responding to any of your further posts.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Oberonight

[Azawarau]

 What I directly said was based on the OP so if you did not base your post off of the OP than it is flawed in this argument.

 

However, I am not wasting anymore time explaining things to you.

Everytime you post, you always get something wrong and then I have to restate and re-explain information from the OP to explain to you over and over again.

I am NOT going to risk fixing Multishot explaining things to you like you're a toddler and then have you turn this thread into a silly battle of keyboard knights.

I've explained my point to you and you just flat out cannot comprehend what i'm saying.

If you still feel the need to argue than send me a PM. Otherwise, I am not responding to any of your further posts.

Your solution is just changing a false choice mod

 

Its a band aid

 

Ive said this a few times already

 

And you calling 10% chance to not get a multi hit on primaries bad while not mentioning the 20% chance to miss with secondaries is showing a large incincistency

 

You cant just ignore that and cal me a few names

[Makya]

@Oberonight, he doesn't like the idea as it isn't removing a mod he doesn't like the base concept of.

[geninrising]

As long as it is guaranteed extra shots for any percentage this is ok IMO as it is no longer RNG related. The fact of the matter is that we already face too much RNG in this game and by ensuring that this mod is no longer RNG at all it would vastly help to free us from this monster and would definitely go a long way to helping out Bows and snipers,

 

The point that Azawarau is trying to make is that he does not like False Choice mods(mods you cannot mod  "properly" without or mods that greatly hurt your build without) Further examples of this type of mod would be Serration, Shotgun ammo mutation(Kohm) Point Strike(Soma, Soma P).

 

The last groupings are situational but still are absolutely necessary to the function of the weapon due to various weaknesses/strengths inherent in the weapons. In other words if you do not have these the weapon loses a vast majority of its functional capability.

Edited January 3, 2015 by geninrising

[Oberonight]

As long as it is guaranteed extra shots for any percentage this is ok IMO as it is no longer RNG related. The fact of the matter is that we already face too much RNG in this game and by ensuring that this mod is no longer RNG at all it would vastly help to free us from this monster and would definitely go a long way to helping out Bows and snipers,

 

The point that Azawarau is trying to make is that he does not like False Choice mods(mods you cannot mod  "properly" without or mods that greatly hurt your build without) Further examples of this type of mod would be Serration, Shotgun ammo mutation(Kohm) Point Strike(Soma, Soma P).

 

The last groupings are situational but still are absolutely necessary to the function of the weapon due to various weaknesses/strengths inherent in the weapons. In other words if you do not have these the weapon loses a vast majority of its functional capability.

False Choice mods, while they are problem, cannot be fixed until RNG is fixed and RNG is arguably the hidden cause for practically all decisions players make in a game.

[IfritKajiTora]

Multishots should be nerfed to make more balanced weapons beetwen Melee and shoting weapons.
Multishots should be nerfed by 1/3. Split chamber from 90% to 30%
Hells chamber can be ok as it is because shotguns are weak compared to shoting weapons.
Snipers and bows should have sepparated multishot as a 100% because there will be no use to use 30% multishot to snipers/bows, and the snipers/bows are weak already so until headshot.
120% pistol multishot nerfed to 40% and that second one from 60% to 20% so them both will give 60% multishot total.

And prime mods incoming so there will be multishots prime version that is giving some more.

Edited January 3, 2015 by IfritKajiTora

[NocturneOfSolace]

No, primaries would be OP if you buffed split chamber

[Makya]

No, primaries would be OP if you buffed split chamber

How is 'every shot does +90% damage' OP when it is already '90% of shots do +100% damage'?

 

False Choice mods, while they are problem, cannot be fixed until RNG is fixed and RNG is arguably the hidden cause for practically all decisions players make in a game.

Has nothing to do with RNG, had everything to do with redesigning how weapons and mods work.. which really involves deleting 85+% of weapon mods, even non +damage mods

Edited January 3, 2015 by Makya

[Aratir]

Dumbing down a chance mod to a simple damage mod is just dump itself :D