Constructive Feedback On The New Bps For Former Credit Weapons

[Bleak_Advent]

The blueprints for the former credit weapons create a higher than necessary bar of entry for newer players looking to try out other weapons. The main point of contention I have with the new BPs is the requirement of alloy plate as a material for  what used to be reasonably obtainable weapons through use of credits. As it stood, alloy plate was used (in larger quantities) for crafting weapons requiring a certain rank of mastery above 1. Currently, the imposed quantities of alloy plate required for the former credit weapons is around or exceeds the quantities of alloy required to make weapons such as the Hek or Boltor. In the interest of maintaining accessibility to weapons for newer players, I would suggest to either lessen the quantities of alloy plate required in the crafting of former credit weapons, change the materials required to craft those weapons to better match with players in the early to mid-game, or to simply add an inflated credit cost to those weapons. As it stands, farming alloy plate is only tolerable (and only just) if the player is able to farm in Sedna, while utilizing drop-rich missions such as Kappa. Tiering the way weapons are obtainable (i.e. credits/plat -> crafted/plat, etc.) gives players an opportunity to experiment with several weapons before venturing out to obtain weapons such as the Hek or Boltor, which are well worth the effort the player puts forth in obtaining them. I'm sure most players like that gradual sense of progression and personal achievement, without being overwhelmed by the crafting of these once reasonably obtainable weapons.  

[holdenagincourt]

I don't get the developers' obsession with Alloy Plate.

 

Just make Alloy Plate required for fewer things and in fewer amounts, and make, e.g., Nano Spores (of which I have more than 60,000) a more commonly used crafting material.

 

Alloy Plate is such a consistent bottleneck for crafting, and with the credit costs for both the blueprint AND for the crafting process, in addition to a wait time, it's really unnecessary to make Alloy Plate required for like half the items in the game in order to prevent players from acquiring everything too quickly.

[Bleak_Advent]

I don't get the developers' obsession with Alloy Plate.

 

Just make Alloy Plate required for fewer things and in fewer amounts, and make, e.g., Nano Spores (of which I have more than 60,000) a more commonly used crafting material.

 

Alloy Plate is such a consistent bottleneck for crafting, and with the credit costs for both the blueprint AND for the crafting process, in addition to a wait time, it's really unnecessary to make Alloy Plate required for like half the items in the game in order to prevent players from acquiring everything too quickly.

 

As it stands with the new BPs, a player would be looking at a few hours minimum of farming up alloy (for just one weapon), outside of any credit costs. I feel the alloy is very much an unnecessary obstruction to impose on the weapons in question.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Bleak_Advent

[Shion963]

IMHO the change to BP for most tier-1 weapons (Latron, Burston) is to emphasise the Braton's role as "The Next Gun You Should Get".

 

Can't speak for the majority, but I personally ignored it in favor of the Burston and Latron way back when.

[crow-k]

Even with the alloy plate issue I grabbed a lot of materials BPs and such. the only thing that really slowed me from making 2-3 items a day was credits/alloy/rubedo when I first started. Without purchasing a new BP just to look I am not sure what the new req. are. I am goign to check wiki now, if there is any other link that shows a good comparison please post here so i can see it. thank you

[BlueEden]

Especially most of the weapons that were converted to BPs were meant to just change play style to match what the player prefers. Now it's hard to figure out if a weapon is a play style you like or a waste of time farming for it.

[Bleak_Advent]

Even with the alloy plate issue I grabbed a lot of materials BPs and such. the only thing that really slowed me from making 2-3 items a day was credits/alloy/rubedo when I first started. Without purchasing a new BP just to look I am not sure what the new req. are. I am goign to check wiki now, if there is any other link that shows a good comparison please post here so i can see it. thank you

 

The alloy is a larger issue for these weapons in question, as they were originally attended to be readily accessible to newer players through a credit only purchase. Alloy farming is flat out ridiculous on just Venus. Think about it as if you were a newer player, not from where you may be at now.

[Bleak_Advent]

Especially most of the weapons that were converted to BPs were meant to just change play style to match what the player prefers. Now it's hard to figure out if a weapon is a play style you like or a waste of time farming for it.

 

This is my main point as far as the "accessibility" is concerned. Those weapons were helpful to me in the sense that they allowed me to explore play style options. Reflecting on that, I would not want new players to be restricted to an even narrower set of early to mid-game options. 

[BlueEden]

This is my main point as far as the "accessibility" is concerned. Those weapons were helpful to me in the sense that they allowed me to explore play style options. Reflecting on that, I would not want new players to be restricted to an even narrower set of early to mid-game options.

Totally agreed on this topic. Though, I think Strun cost is a little high for starting players just to test a different weapon type.

[Bleak_Advent]

Totally agreed on this topic. Though, I think Strun cost is a little high for starting players just to test a different weapon type.

 

I would tend to agree, but at least it doesn't have an added 400 alloy plate price tag.

[BlueEden]

Honestly, this has been the only update so far that I've been disappointed in. I just got a friend into the game and now I see that he's stuck with mostly starting gear for quite a while, while I have quite an arsenal of weapons that will take him 20X as long to farm. Also, I find it interesting that my ability to spend plat just got reduced as it will take me much longer to acquire the alloy plate to build weapons and therefore buy extra slots and potatoes.

[BlueEden]

I would tend to agree, but at least it doesn't have an added 400 alloy plate price tag.

Agreed on the Alloy Plate issue as being more of a hurdle. Credit cost is still too high for a starting player to get a Strun though, farming 75k is difficult when you are starting out and trying to build up your mods with cores eating a lot of cash that you may not realize at first. Then to dump that much on a weapon you may not even like. It's still a time consuming proposition for a beginner.

[Bleak_Advent]

Agreed on the Alloy Plate issue as being more of a hurdle. Credit cost is still too high for a starting player to get a Strun though, farming 75k is difficult when you are starting out and trying to build up your mods with cores eating a lot of cash that you may not realize at first. Then to dump that much on a weapon you may not even like. It's still a time consuming proposition for a beginner.

If the weapons in question were still available for credits, you would have the burston, snipetron, and latron being cheaper entry points. Mods wouldn't be as huge an issue in the early goings. I wouldn't muck around with mods until I first found a weapon suitable to my personal play style.

[ValhaHazred]

The only weapon I didn't BP was Latron, and I bought that three hours before the update hit :P

[Bleak_Advent]

The only weapon I didn't BP was Latron, and I bought that three hours before the update hit :P

Please only reply to this thread if you're offering feedback or continuing the productive dialogue.

[Zero.No.Hikari]

I see it as a smart move on their part, sure it'll be tougher to get a weapon but farming those materials and then waiting for it well worth it, I mean when I made Paris it was amazing to finally string up that bow and let my arrows fly into Grineer heads.  I just count myself happy that they at least be able to enjoy using a Lex, it'll help them find out if they really want to buy the snipetron BP.  With Lex as a intro to sniping I'm sure Beginners will learn to adapt to these challenges.

[ValhaHazred]

That was offering feedback. Sorry, I suppose I should go into more detail.

 

When I started the game, I didn't think the guns that could be bought with credits would be any good and went straight for the Blueprints. I never had any trouble gathering resources or keeping credits for mods and that was before the update that boosted credit earning.

[Loswaith]

I have definatly found alloy plates about the most difficuilt resource to get, even grouping with better equiped friends allot of the time.  To hear more drain on them is a tad sadening.  I'm also not sure why anyone would use metal 'plates' to make a weapon rather than just augment it (but thats more an imersion aspect).

 

That said the Lex I dont realy see being a good entry into sniping, especially when the others are rifles not a pistol.  You can get a good feel of how a lex will work using the Lato (its reasonably precise if fired slowley), the bratons dont realy give a good idea of how the rifle sniping will go either.

 

Its sad to see all the sniper type rifles as blueprints.  Having the Latron as credits instead could be a good way to avoid that aspect.

While a few of the others did make sence to go that way with them.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Loswaith

[noveltyhero]

What if they were to add in a new resource? Something similar to alloy plate but weaker and cheaper, so  it would be used for low-end crafting rather than high end (e.g HEK). If you guys agree on the idea of a new resource I am sure I can come up with a well written essay and ideas about this resource.

[Loswaith]

New resource would be good (alloy scraps so to speak), it would assist the drain on alloy plate, add a bit more diversity and cut out the additional grind that is caused by having so much dependant on a single resource.

 

While I have platinum to spend the costs for the weapons are still just way to prohibitive to make the platinum a worth while endeavour.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Loswaith

[Biscuithammer]

I honestly don't see why they did this. Most people won't want to spend platinum on more weapons considering how much they cost. But they'd be far more likely to buy additional inventory spaces. I think it generally behooves DE to make Warframes and weapons easier (but not too easy) to emphasize buying more slots. Heck, I ALMOST bought more slots before I realized that I can't craft all of the stuff I want to craft with the new system.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Biscuithammer

[Eltoshan]

I'm mostly curious what the general consensus would be if the crafting requirements were more reasonable. No more alloy plate (well, except on a couple of things, and preferably in much lower amounts particularly on the kinds of guns you would expect newer players to get), just limited to more of the materials you'd find earlier on including boss stuff like morphics and such.

 

The alloy requirements are alarmingly strict, and this is coming from someone who's rank 5. The snipetron is widely considered to be rather unimpressive except by a few, and it now costs 450 to make which is... very, very steep for a weapon that a lot of people find kinda mediocre--not that public opinion should govern how much a weapon costs, mind you. I'm obviously not averse to farming at this point (hell, all I do is level up new guns and swap out as they get to 30 because I find it pretty fun) but imagine the look on some poor newbie's face because you are not going to be getting that much alloy anytime soon on, say, Venus. Now imagine it if it's in a weapon that turns out to be... less than stellar.

 

This would probably be another good time to bring back the old idea a few people tossed around of some kind of training room where you can try out guns so you know what you're getting into before you put all the investment into them.

 

I do hope that enough people can constructively get this point across to DE in spite of the ridiculous amount of doomsday heralding going on today, because I do think it's something sincerely worth looking into.

[noveltyhero]

Scrap Metal New Idea:

Found on Venus/Ceres. Same if not a tiny bit better drop-rate than alloy plate (its former improvement) and widely used on lower end weapons and equipment.

What do you guys think?

[Niryco]

Off-topic

I would say introduce a new planet whereby mobs actually drops materials from their planets at an increased rate, however the mobs would be of greater difficulty as well, more variety fo mechanic mobs. They would be like the higher level version of the current walker-tech mobs which use bullets.

 

On-topic,

I admit it is less forgiving to players which i would say against, but ti would be a good thing to see players work for their desires. Probably one way would be by increasing the chances and amount that is dropped of alloys in planets that supposedly give alloy plates as a material.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Jacate

[Bleak_Advent]

I'm mostly curious what the general consensus would be if the crafting requirements were more reasonable. No more alloy plate (well, except on a couple of things, and preferably in much lower amounts particularly on the kinds of guns you would expect newer players to get), just limited to more of the materials you'd find earlier on including boss stuff like morphics and such.

 

The alloy requirements are alarmingly strict, and this is coming from someone who's rank 5. The snipetron is widely considered to be rather unimpressive except by a few, and it now costs 450 to make which is... very, very steep for a weapon that a lot of people find kinda mediocre--not that public opinion should govern how much a weapon costs, mind you. I'm obviously not averse to farming at this point (hell, all I do is level up new guns and swap out as they get to 30 because I find it pretty fun) but imagine the look on some poor newbie's face because you are not going to be getting that much alloy anytime soon on, say, Venus. Now imagine it if it's in a weapon that turns out to be... less than stellar.

 

This would probably be another good time to bring back the old idea a few people tossed around of some kind of training room where you can try out guns so you know what you're getting into before you put all the investment into them.

 

I do hope that enough people can constructively get this point across to DE in spite of the ridiculous amount of doomsday heralding going on today, because I do think it's something sincerely worth looking into.

Even with a training room, the bar of entry for those weapons is still around or higher than the Hek or Boltor, making them less than reasonable choices when a player did have the resources to craft a weapon. That being said, I'd be all for modifying the prints to make them more beginner friendly. If DE wants to push these former credit weapons as a craft or plat option, I can accept that, but they need to lower the bar significantly on their crafting costs, so they are more immediately accessible to newer players.