Mach25
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Posts posted by Mach25
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On 2019-01-04 at 8:11 PM, MirageKnight said:
It's not called an Exploiter Orb for nothing 😛
That said, I'm not looking forward to the grindy Bounties that will be associated with getting to fight that beastie.
Agreed and I won't be doing them, either. I really don't give an orokin's taffy arm about railjack because it'll just be more grind. Look, if I want to grind, I'll play Tony Hawk. I'm just waiting for M3 to drop - when I played this game (if I ever pick it back up again, after I get stuff for my buddies), I tried to play it to unwind - it's hard to unwind when key aspects of the game - like what makes a ninja a ninja - are missing and the contradictory and restraining systems leave a bad taste in your mouth. This additional grind (you know exactly what I'm talking about) is almost the last straw.
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10 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:
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PS To Both of You
I'd like to make it very clear that I am actually enjoying this discussion and appreciate the counterpoints. However, typing this out was thoroughly exhausting, so I may either respond very late or (depending on how the rest of this week goes) not at all. At the very least, though, rest assured that I'll read any responses and contemplate what you have to say.
Indeed, I too am enjoying viewing this conversation. Meridian Inc. seems to be taking form already.
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Exploiter, eh? It is aptly named since it clearly uses wall hax.
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I really liked someone's idea of setting a time limit on the defence objective while having waves of enemies rush the player until time runs out - that is more realistic and would be far more engaging while simultaneously dealing with the issue stated in the original post.
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1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:
Argon decay is usually why I usually go Argon hunting only when I've got all the other ingredients needed for a piece of gear I intend to build very soon.That way, decay is a non-issue for players.
In my experience, 4 Waves of Defense in the Void is usually sufficient to drop one or two crystals.
Happy New Years! May 2019 be only one of very many fulfilling and happy years of your life, Mirage. 😎
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On 2018-12-18 at 11:48 PM, MirageKnight said:
I'd think something that big would drop a ton of Circuits, Alloy, Salvage, even some Fieldron Samples.
But a stupid Toroid that gives 6k standing to Vox Solaris? And a Sigil? That's IT?
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On 2018-12-21 at 8:01 AM, Beas7ie said:
It's terrible.
They tease a new boss and act like that boss will be an "epic fight" when most of the time it's just a lame "shoot the glowing weak spot" boredom fest. Like Lephantis. Oh yeah, space ninjas, we can run around maybe cut at the legs to stagger it, maybe even when it's stunned jump or climb on it and stab it in one of the heads. NOPE!! Shoot the glowing weak spots!
J3 Golem. Finally a proper archwing boss! Maybe we can fly around, fight some smaller enemies, maybe some tentacle stuff. Dodge around cut with our awesome archwing swords and blast stuff with the big guns(for you uncivilized fold who prefer clumsy and random guns) but NOPE! Shoot the glowing weak spot!
Ruk gets a makeover. Ok, cool guy with fire powers, this should be a great fight! NOPE! Shoot the glowing weak spot!
Eidolons! Giant Sentient remains. Wait a minute, I know what this is going to be. Shoot the glowing weak spot, ugh. NOPE! Go to operator mode to whittle down it's special shield, THEN Shoot the glowing weak spots!
What do we have to do to get some big revised bosses that we can hit with our swords!?
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7 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:
Hmm... That's not a bad approach, actually. Let me make a counter-proposal. The way Helldivers handles its entire damage system (broadly speaking to avoid getting bogged down into details) is the closer to the "centre" of an enemy you hit, the more damage you do. Since most hitboxes in that game are round or flat (it's a top-down shooter), that basically translates to the angle of impact. Earlier, Tyreaus asked what we would retain Critical Chance as, and I could definitely see it as something like that. For every critical hitbox, track how closely a player hits to the centre and scale damage accordingly. At 0% "critical chance," damage would scale from 100% at the centre to 0% at the periphery quadratically. The more "critical chance" the player had, the broader the 100% damage buffer would be, making full-damage criticals easier to accomplish.
Of course, that's not to say that larger critical hitboxes is a bad idea. Payday 2 is a good example in this, as hitboxes in that game are GIGANTIC!!! Yes, that does "dumb down" aiming somewhat by making headshots easier to hit, but it also allows the game to be pretty mobile because of it. One can reasonably sprint and still be "popping headshots" with a decently steady hand. I'm concerned about instances where critical hitboxes might "increase" into the actual character model, but that's likely solvable via setting how hitboxes scale per-model and with some amount of impact priority calculation.
So... I stand corrected. With the above two ideas, I guess there ARE implementations of critical chance which can be deterministic enough for me to support. Thanks for that idea, it's pretty clever! 🙂
Before we go too far, what if we applied the tier-ing system to crit mods as well? I know we're talking about removing crit altogether, but let's say the devs wanted to keep in crit for whatever reason. I would propose applying the tiered system to crit mods as well as status ones, respectively as so: Bronze = nothing but crit chance | nothing but status chance; silver = crit chance + damage | status chance + duration; gold = maximum crit chance and damage | max status chance and duration, with the requirement of a riven to increase these stats. It's pretty late, so if I'm missing something, let me know.
This is simply one branch of the conversation closest to what we have right now that shouldn't be too hard to implement. The other branch of the conversation detailing increased changes to the system altogether are still developing, so I'll let more feedback come in before I present the propositions here in a more concise package for perusal and feedback on the proposed changes.
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1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:
Works well on those too 😛
Awesome, looks like I found my new melee weapon, then, when M3 Day arrives.
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2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:
This I think is a much more reasonable position to work off of. Ultimately, I disagree that parkour and stealth are only ancillary in Warframe, or that the game doesn't try to challenge the player on either, as I think there is clear in-game evidence against this, but I can agree that the game should not force content upon players that they do not enjoy. This can apply to parkour and stealth, in addition to notoriously unpopular mission types like Defection, but I think the corollary to this is that it should also apply to combat, including the horde mode combat we've had in abundance. As someone who's played this game since the beta, you know better than I do that Warframe was not build with horde mode-style combat in mind, or at least not to the degree we have now where gameplay often boils down to one-shotting as many enemies as the engine can simultaneously animate in a session. The design of enemies in the Vallis, where many among them are loaded with hard crowd control, also belies the critical flaws in applying this combat style to the entirety of the game, and to a larger extent the balance and design of combat in Warframe currently has some severe, fundamental issues. In many respects, combat is not even a requirement to many mission types, which often focus on simply reaching an objective.
Combat is also a system an increasingly large number of players have grown to dislike, or at least harshly criticize in the hope of an imminent and substantial update (hence all the complaints on the forums). As such, while horde mode combat, and combat in general, should feature in endgame content, just like stealth and parkour, it should not be forced upon players who would rather engage with some other part of the game they enjoy and can be challenged with, again just like those systems. In this respect, I'm with you that the game shouldn't force content upon people when it has enough alternatives, but then what I'm trying to point out is that the same concerns you are raising apply just as well, if not even better, to content that is currently being treated as the only endgame in Warframe: if stealth and parkour challenges should be optional, then so should horde mode combat, and if the latter is to be enforced as mandatory for players participating in endgame content, then so should the former.
I think this is a rather interesting concept - I'd too would like to see that option available in endgame content, to where you have multiple paths set before you: straight-up combat or use stealth and parkour to get the job done, perhaps even being split into stages, with each one having stealth or combat available to them. Imagine running along a wall over some Corpus punks to unlock a gate using hacking skills/cipher, then you advance more easily - if you choose to go down the grate, your next stage will be combat - your progress will be slower, but if you just want to mess stuff up six ways to Sunday, more power to you. Looking at the Corpus gas city rework, I agree with MJ12's position that players should be given a reasonable bit of leeway on the parkour courses. Variety is always good and I would like to see the developers work parkour even more into the game to help players get that ninja feel. I myself can do it either way - sometimes, I prefer to wall-run from time to time to get to where I need to go because I enjoy it better than running like Grandpa Jones and sometimes I don't want to become a flea and just keep jumping to get to where I want to go in a timely manner. This ties into my call for an expert mode to where base foot speed is increased to a more reasonable manner - I believe high foot speed that is comparable to bullet jumps would smooth out the game and add another layer of smoothness to this game that would serve things well. Think about it - sprint (not jog, sprint) to a wall, chain a wall run to a flip to a melee slide attack, the works, you see where I'm going with this. Ah well, I suppose that's for another day.
Anyway, getting back on track, I agree with what's been said: make stealth and parkour an equally viable approach to endgame content that is reasonably forgiving to players, work more (forgiving) parkour into warframe missions to help players be able to get their parkour skills up. About the endgame missions - here is where I am getting theoretical, feel free to discuss - perhaps reward player skill by allowing players who can do stealth and parkour more quickly than a guy who never uses it with a good-sized bonus if they can do it in a given time frame, say if you can do it in under 30 seconds, you'll get a 50k credit bonus. Numbers can be adjusted, but you understand what I mean. For the combat side, since players tend to nuke everything they can, perhaps it would need to be something like get x number of kills in so many seconds - nothing too restrictive to where folks would feel the need to bring Saryn/Equinox to the party every time, but to where they would not be able to sit on their haunches, either.
Those are my recommendations based upon what's been discussed so far, if anything is off, I'll refine them based on further input.
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Pretty cool idea there!
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On 2018-12-25 at 11:10 PM, Xylia said:
.......is that all Fortuna/Orb Vallis is?
Seriously.
Apparently we're not supposed to do anything solo unless we bring an AoE damage frame, or a heavy hitting machinegun or something. I remember way back before PoE when I could take nearly any frame, and any combination of weapons to most game modes (except defense/excavation) and do ok, and even lower level defenses weren't that bad.
So I did the quests that open up Orb Vallis and get you your skateboard and... well look at that. First mission ain't too bad, but the next one is an excavation and they drop Lv6 mobs that have more than a normal Lv20's health and they come at you in an endless supply. *sigh* Fine, I'll restart the mission and bring my boltor prime though I'm tired of having to use that for every single mission. What's the point of all of these weapons if only a few are useful because I'm always asked to defend a piece of cardboard against never-ending stream of enemies!?
Then after that, it's hack a computer. Fine, I'll defend that too.
Then I decided to go after a bounty. Read the quest text and it didn't sound like anything having to do with defense, so I put my bow back on.
Big Mistake. OF FREAKING COURSE there's a random Defense segment in the middle of it.
Does every stinking quest, bounty, etc on Orb Vallis have Defense in it or something? That's going to get real old if that's the only kind of missions there are, if every single mission requires heavy AoE.
Last I checked there ARE more game modes than Defense. Heck, the first mission wasn't Defense, even.
I was kinda hoping there'd be more variety other than "Let's rain a hundred guys off of dropships while you defend a piece of cardboard" or something...
If I wanted Defense, I'd go to the Void or Eris or something. I was hoping for a more varied mission style, some extermination, some breaking into a facility, some assassinations, etc. But no, Eudico needs to hack those computers and she's just as bad as the Lotus at doing it.
Agreed, that's one of the reasons why I stopped doing Orb bounties - too many defense missions. I'd imagine defense-type objectives would be far more limited, since they're in a Corpus stronghold whose troop numbers massively outnumber theirs and whose tech gives them a huge edge over Solaris U members. Like in real life, you'd expect them to have more cloak-n-dagger ops, so it should be more spy-type missions, random break-ins to snatch-n-grab targets and intel (that means in-and-out, no dawdling!), tenno distractions while SU operatives (little duck and her associates) do their dirt (Corpus taxman:"mad tenno on the loose, killing everything in sight - hate those guys. huh, did I leave that locker open?"), sabotage, etc., not the full-on confrontations that are defense missions except in rare, critical circumstances - they would tell you this before you launch the mission. Make SU actually feel like a small group that's struggling to survive against a massive corporation by reflecting this in the type of missions they give.
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1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:
Interesting. I don't really care too much one way or the other how things are implemented under the hood; BL:R just had one of the best implementations of it from the user side of things.
That said, it did have issues with a few guns being given way too much horizontal recoil.
I actually agree 100%, with regards to recoil being beneficial to the feel of a game and making the weapons feel like they have 'oomph.' What I meant with regards to recoil being less critically important was simply that Warframe could reasonably focus on somewhat consistent vertical recoil rather than horizontal recoil.
PVP shooters have to carefully sprinkle in the right amount of horizontal recoil to prevent players from simply "riding" vertical recoil into free headshots, but in a PVE setting that doesn't matter nearly as much.
Using BL:R as an example again, in its earlier iterations several of its guns were decisively OP simply because their recoil pulled straight up, meaning that by aiming center of mass they were practically guaranteed a headshot within 2-3 shots.
Sorry I wasn't expressing that clearly.
FRICKING YES.
Headshot = critical, please, and effects like Banshee's Sonar should simply create an additional "head."
Yes, precisely!
In conjunction with this, change "finishers" from their current rigid sync-kill implementation to simple application of the bonus damage on the next attack. If the hit happens to kill, give out fancier death animations like decapitations, but don't lock the player into a several-seconds-long animation every time.
I think this could be handled simply by giving them lower crit multipliers relative to more precise weapons.
The key to this is just balance. Headshots would be less critically (heh) important if raw damage had a hope of competing with critical damage in terms of efficacy.
Non-crit weapons would probably be Warframe's Body Expertise counterpart if implemented correctly. Critical weapons should trade lower overall DPS for higher DPS with precise aiming, instead of straight-up universally higher DPS the way it does currently.
Assuming Warframe weapons are given noticeable recoil and we see the implementation of tiered enemies, there would be a place for both: raw damage weapons would be easier to use vs. the lesser hordes and elites, and critical weapons would have great value against champions and bosses when used effectively.
I'm going to see about those lottery tickets...
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1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:
On its face, that's not a bad idea. In fact, precedent for it already exists. The Primed Regeneration mod for Sentinels offers the same bonus as the basic Copper Regeneration, but with the addition of an extra effect - multiple regenerations. I can absolutely see Serration gain the addition of Multishot as you go from Silver to Gold. Say, the Copper Serration might cap out at Rank 5 for damage, the Silver Serration might cap out at Rank 10 for damage, and the Gold Serration might offer Multishot in addition to damage at ranks 6 through 10. Frankly, I feel a few more mods can do this, as well.
I wouldn't go as far as to bake Critical Hits into Serration, however. Not every weapon is a "crit" weapon, not every weapon should be slotted for that. I'm of the opinion that Crit should still be a choice that takes up space and capacity, just maybe not quite as much space or quite as much capacity. Merging mods of the same "type" is not a bad idea, but within reason. We want to reduce the bloat, not necessarily gut the complexity.
To be perfectly honest, though... I kind of don't think random-chance criticals have any place being in Warframe in the first place. These things are an old P&P RPG relic where a player's input was limited and actions were typically resolved by dice rolls. Modern shooters give players all of the tools necessary to actually hit an enemy's critical weaknesses ourselves. I'd like to see Critical Hits disappear entirely and be replaced with additional enemy weaknesses that players can hit for bonus damage. Not just the head, either. Look at something like The Division, where enemies can be shot in their Grenade Pouches or Incendiary Packs or Ammo Bags in addition to just being headshotted. Why is it impossible to hit a Grenier's weak spot from the back? Surely the majority of their armour would be on the side facing the enemy (i.e. "the front") with weaknesses pushed to the back. Surely a player who manages to sneak up on a Grenier shouldn't be punished by being denied headshot damage just because they all wear giant Terminator Armour packs.
But that's kind of going off-topic.
True, true, I forgot about non-critical weapons and I hesitated to put crit chance and damage onto serration at first - should've listened to myself. Corrected my previous post as well. Still, the intention is rather clear. Since multishot and serration are universal damage mods, they can stand to be merged. I think criticals would be a bit trickier to deal with - should be an interesting avenue of discussion there. I can see critical hit chance and damage being removed from projectile weapons, but what do you (and anyone else) say about melee strikes if crits are removed, since those cannot be aimed for precision strikes (which would be pretty cool if we could do that)?
That aside, as a Division player, I fully understand what you mean and I agree.
26 minutes ago, (XB1)ZenithLord 42 said:I’ve said it before and will continue to say it, the Warframe devs need to take a serious look into the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer mode. A few main points to consider are how weapons function, including mods, how characters worked, from powers to movement to even why they were fun in regards to progression.
Mass Effect 3 for the win. I still play it to this day and have a pretty active team that plays it a lot.
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8 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:
I think this would be an oversimplification. Minor flavor bonuses like Infested being weak to fire are fine (e.g., the player's first response to Infested is "kill it with fire!!!"), but other than that effectiveness should be built around counter-mechanics.
Rather than "anti-Grineer," corrosive is obviously anti-armor. This would make it good against most Grineer, Corpus proxies, and Infested Ancients.
Yep, that's what I meant - I saw your idea and agreed with corrosive being good against all armor. I simply said grineer because they're an armor-based faction and I was thinking about Rook's discussion of enemies' characteristics at this point in time, the lack of info newer players don't have and how this game needs proper documentation so my summation was threefold: a distillation of enemies in simple to understand terms so players who don't know about these other resources can get a rough idea of what to expect with each faction, bringing reasonable changes to each faction in general and as well a simplistic argument to help maintain focus and discussion on the topic at hand.
8 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:However... Instead of handling it through an arbitrary damage multiplier, I would implement it through specific effects. For example, armor would be a hard-to-penetrate health buffer instead of percentage damage reduction, and corrosive would eat away its durability over time while temporarily making it easier to penetrate. This would make corrosive useful to slash-based weapons unable to penetrate thick armor effectively, but puncture-based weapons could opt to take health-damaging elements due to penetrating armor more easily.
With adequate swap speed, players could even opt to specialize one weapon for armor destruction (puncture corrosive) and another for finishing off defenseless foes (slash viral, etc.) for a 1-2 punch combination.
I'm still waiting for that game of yours, Diab. I. want. that. game.
8 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:Firstly, I'm of the opinion that quite a few mods can stand to be merged together. Critical mods, for instance, just take up space. Is there EVER a time when you'd build for Critical Chance but NOT critical damage? I could see maybe building for Status Chance without Status Duration, though I'm not entirely sure how useful Status Duration is in the first place. So no, mixing Serration and Multishot into the same mod is not a bad idea as far as I'm concerned, nor is removing the Multishot aspect from everywhere else. While we're at it, we might want to also remove the base damage buffs from other mods. That right there should curb most of the same-buff stacking without entirely blocking buff stacking as a concept. I know DE like to treat their "dual aspect" mods as super-special-rare Nightmare mods, but I'm personally fine with merging some of the basic ones.
Agreed. About that, what if, as a matter of progression the baseline damage boosting mods (serration and hornet strike) are divided up into three tiers? The rarer the mod, the more bonuses you get? Copper = pure damage, silver = damage + multishot, gold = damage + multishot at maximum values? You get what I mean. Sure, you may have the other mods to keep you sated until you get the golden one, but once that mod is in play, the other mods cannot be slotted onto your weapon. Your other idea of sacrificing other mods to upgrade it, that's pretty cool. I'll leave that mechanic to further discussion.
Barring status and dealing purely with damage mods as they are currently implemented, I think this would serve as a fine compromise between what we have and what we propose. Granted, this is restrained to what is easiest to implement at this point. I find the multishot rework proposal an interesting point and lean favorably towards it. I will refine propositions as information is exchanged, ideas measured and parties arrive at a consensus, be it agreement or an agreement to disagree.
What I'm seeing here, this is how a forum ideally operates - it is a worthy thing to behold.
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1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:
Either you'd create something massively overpowered or outright break people's builds completely. Ideally, you want to swap the entire system out for something that works better but sort of resembles the status quo at least initially. You absolutely can nerf or change Multishot, you just can't ONLY do that without adjusting weapons, enemies or both.
That's what I meant before. If these changes do come, they're likely to be part of a much larger package revamping the entire modding system, possibly also the damage system. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Doing something is better than doing nothing.
First and foremost, I propose a simple solution that has been floated before in times past: if the designers are hellbent on using mods as a form of progression (thus defeating the purpose of what the term modification means), they should combine serration and split chambre (and their secondary/melee counterparts) into one mod in its own separate pool on each weapon, away from everything else. This mod does not pull from energy pool, but is in its own slot. This would be the least difficult implementation that is more readily available. After rank 4 of serration, you'll start getting multishot bonuses, with all possible multishot bonuses currently distributed across different mods folded into serration at rank 10. No more multishot mods (outside of rivens, another discussion) are available. Serration itself should be strong enough to make any weapon viable in the designated maximum window of level 45 enemies or whatever is deemed reasonable. About additional damage mods, I'll let you guys debate upon that point.
Second: I would combine this with your earlier propositions to get rid of all these various RPG elements that form a jumbled mish-mash in a fast-paced game like warframe and simplify enemy mechanics - if I remember correctly, it went something like grineer are weak to puncture and corrosive, corpus to impact and radiation, infested to slash and heat.
Third: Later on, down the line, perhaps elemental mods can simply convert your damage leaning more towards whichever elements you wish. (I think I saw that from one of Diab's posts somewhere - correct me if I'm wrong.)
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6 hours ago, Serafinia said:
Honestly the Lunaro and conclave are not so popular because the server issues and the peer to peer is not really good for pvp. I myself not tried the frame fighter yet but that is a mortal kombat like mini game.
Socialization is in other hand a different thing but the dojos and relays supposed to be and if they add some mini casino or other fun like stuff then it would be popular to go there. There need some minor but interesting rewards, chance to win some credit and a lot more peoples would like to go there and not just for the syndicates/simaris (relay) and research/trading (dojo).
Card games also not a too difficult to implement and we already have mods which could be used as a card packett. The only thing what I see as disadvantage there is no really summon cards or warframe cards only ability boost cards but despite that they could implement it.
How many people would like to play it is a different thing because the vast majority never touch the forum and in game they can only get information about the hotfixes. The radio would be a nice addition on the ship and orbiter to share news like these. Tournaments, most popular tenno, most played missions and the alerts also would be nice if they announced there. Lotus is cool and nice but personally would like to have some uses of the radio on Orbiter/Ship.
I like these ideas - very outside-the-box.
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53 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:
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I'd also tighten up the firing spread significantly to make it a more accurate weapon. For a long-barreled weapon, the Phaedra has terrible shot placement at long range.
Bragging rights, Mirage. At the moment, the Phaedra's length is meant purely for bragging rights: "My gun's bigger than yours." /s
Agreed.
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24 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:
I fully agree with the premise here.
IMO it would be simpler and more reliable to just fully balance the game around base stats. Mods should - rather than offering any simple bonuses - offer bonuses with plausible (and significant) trade-offs. For example, +Reload Speed -Magazine Size instead of just +Reload Speed. Different mods could offer different combinations of penalties (e.g., +Damage/+Recoil vs. +Damage/-Accuracy, or +Damage/-Fire Rate.), and through managing mutual exclusivity more closely we could have a modding system that prioritizes making weapons handle a certain way instead of transforming a "non-viable" weapon into a viable one.
You want a slow-firing gun that hits harder and kicks like a horse? You can make it!
You want an easy-to-control bullet hose? You can make it!
The same thing roughly applies to Warframe modding. As it is currently, it's all about capitalizing on whatever kit a Warframe already has. I would prefer to see a system where each kit is "viable" at baseline (unmodded) and can be tweaked to fit different roles more effectively (e.g., melee-focused, AOE damage, focused damage, etc.).
I'm sure this would work, but I would prefer to see something more like this:
- +1 extra bullet per level, as you suggested.
- Forced spread for the additional bullets, as you suggested.
- Reduced damage per bullet, such that individual shots deal less while the sum of shots increases slightly. (e.g., 60% individual, 120% combined.)
- Extra recoil proportional to the number of additional bullets.
- Rifle/Pistol multishot mods reduced to R3 quality, Shotgun multishot mods reduced to R0 but double the pellet count.
- Shotgun status revised to prevent "true" 100% status-per-pellet scenarios.
I think this achieves roughly the same end-result without the awkwardness of trying to track how many bullets were effectively useless.
Agreed! I think it would make sense to have enemies use the same level scale as players (0-30) with "endless" scaling using a combination of inflating health and resistance to CC used to drive players out rather than raw damage. The "ok we're done" threshold could be balanced to manifest at ~60, after which enemies would shrug off CC and take more time to kill than they're worth.
Assuming we use an enemy tiering system as proposed below, that would mostly apply to the Champions, with the fodder never really reaching that threshold of soft immunity.
I mostly agree with this, though I'll throw it out there that no enemy should really be annoying. Difficult is fine, but annoying isn't. For example, poison bugs from Dark Souls 3 are an annoying enemy. They have near-pointless melee attacks, and their whole gimmick is that they collectively coat entire areas in poison clouds. Is the poison dangerous? Sure. But in the gameplay sense it just translates to the player waiting around for the poison to dissipate before moving in to kill more bugs. It's slow for the sake of being slow, not because the player is particularly challenged or engaged.
For that same reason, I wouldn't want champions to amount purely to damage sponges. I would prefer to have them operate such that players need to create openings to deal damage, and skilled players who exploit or counter the champion's behaviors more effectively are rewarded with a relatively short TTK.
To add on to what you've proposed already:
- Minions exist to help players combat attrition and fuel their stronger tools, restoring health/ammo/etc. in greater proportion when killed.
- Elites exist to make minions more effective through supportive powers or unique counters to players' arsenals, and mostly drop common loot.
- Champions exist to challenge players and facilitate direct cooperation, and drop mostly uncommon/rare loot.
IMO this will construct a more cohesive battlefield in terms of enemy tactics and target priorities, as well as allow for slightly more forgiving drop rates with enemy spawn rate as a secondary layer of limitation. This would also create a soft degree of "scaling" rewards and secondary difficulty for players challenging endless modes, as fewer minion spawns translate into less available health/ammo/etc. and more champion spawns translate into more chances at rarer loot.
You. Stop what you're doing. I want a game. NOW.
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7 hours ago, MirageKnight said:
In some respects, I wish the holidays wouldn't end. Time to kick back, take it easy, and enjoy the company of friends and family.
That said...Happy Holidays all 🙂
Well, my friend, Happy Holidays to you as well!
I hope this turns out to be one of the best holiday seasons for you, with the future looking ever brighter. 🙂
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16 hours ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:
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Look at Hydroids passive... A tentacle spawned on slam attacks.. Most slams arresting going to have more range than that and if it does grab it you need to wrestle with your own tentacle to finish the job.
Good point. I too find most passives almost useless - I can never tell what warframe has what passive unless it's visual like Rhino's.
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The issue with Zenurik is that this is a game that depends on suit energy for powers - tying energy to a specific school is going to naturally make players go for that one by and large. I believe that was a poor design decision, making Energizing Dash and Energy Pulse tied to that particular way. ED/EP is almost like another Serration. I strongly recommend making these two nodes waybounds or making EP as a passive after you complete The Second Dream and ED as a waybound on the Zenurik school. As the game is a power fantasy, people are going to go the way of whatever enables them to do what the title aims for - "amazing space stuff."
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1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:
Did I say something wrong?
You said something right. You were simply quoted because our goals are the same with rivens. 👊 (fist bump)
I have a buddy that regularly sells off his rivens because he doesn't like the system - I'm saving up some plat so I can buy them off him when he gets them. If interested, any weapons that you want a riven for, let me know either here on the forums or in-game and I'll keep an eye out.
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20 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:
...The only reason I bother with rivens is because they have the potential to use one mod slot in place of two or three other mods to achieve the same effect...
The game's outdated horde-shooting mechanics are showing (Challenge Discussion)
in General
Posted · Edited by Mach25
I haven't had time to read all the posts in here, but from what I've seen so far, this is the crux of your writing, as I understood it from the get-go without having read all of the additional posts since I last visited this thread. This is what I liked about the Brutality mod for Fallout 4 - sure, you can stack weapon damage perks, but in the end, you'll only get about 15% more damage, if I recall it correctly - that 15% would go towards higher leveled enemies, but the base weapon itself still did the damage just fine. An important caveat is that I did use a level cap on enemies so there were no outliers besides bosses (hermit crabs, fog crawlers, etc.).
I believe we are missing an important aspect with where we are in the discussion at this point. We know that meta entails elemental and physical damage mods. The biggest problem here is dealing with the armor system. Yes, we can talk about elemental damage having a more utilitarian nature and the like, but I believe that whatever proposals come, it must be said that armor values in this product are tp be corrected to be more reasonable according to enemy level. I believe armor should scale only on bosses, not on mooks to chuck in the bin. Butchers, scorpions, etc. they have a set amount per 10 levels. level 0 - 9, 10; level 10-19, 20; level 20-29; 30, level 30-39; 40; level 41-49; 60, level 50-59, 85; you get what I mean. Early on, armor is low, but as you get towards the end of the balancing curve, it gets higher but within reason - and has a capped amount at a determined level, say level 80-ish. Whatever that cap amount should be for mooks, I'll leave to others who are far more informed than me to decide. For bosses, that cap amount will be higher and the armor/shielding curve will be steeper but still within reason - proto-shields and alloy shields have greater damage resilience than their non-OG (for lack of a better term, using gamerspeak) counterparts, but their pools are significantly smaller to make up for it. I also favor the destruction of armor and shieldpacks to leave enemies exposed in key areas. When I say the destruction of shieldpacks, you can damage it enough to where it will operate in a malfunctioning state - maybe half the body is exposed, maybe an arm is exposed, or the leg - it's absolutely random. Do enough damage to the shieldpack and the former shield-bearing opponent will be just another armored mook - if they're unarmored, well, the Grineer have found genetic [insert faction name]-material to be repurposed after we're done with them. On machinery, they will have nothing but armor to protect them.
Speaking of dealing with armor or shields, here is the kicker: this is where your critical mods come into play - you give players the tools to get around this armor by hitting weak spots that have only a certain percentage of that armor, so called soft-spots. For shielded enemies, they have generators on their back that serve as their weakspot. As we had discussed before, I would favor the elimination of critical chance being purely randomized in favor of soft-spot size being increased (Steel_Rook), while damage done in that soft spot (so-called critical hit damage) can be used to address the enemy health. However, this critical damage would not be obscenely more effective than base damage. If you're using a weapon that still has a smaller soft spot size than you would like and prefer to end their adventuring days with an arrow (or tigris) to the knee, the rate of status accrual (Diabolus_Ursus) per shot would be significantly higher. Automatic weapons have a lower rate of status stacking per shot, but that is offset by stream of fire, naturally.
The mods addressing critical and status aspects of the enemy would be off their own separate slot, not taking any mod capacity. Like the damage mod, these mods would be tiered and also given their own separate slots. This reminds me of what someone else proposed earlier - have separate slots allowing you to customize your weapon as you see fit. Instead of silencers, receiver, barrel, etc., we have mods. So, in the top slot goes our tiered damage mod, retaining progression by upgrading it as we can. In the middle slot, where you would have the receiver, you would put your tiered crit mods there. Where the barrel is, you put your tiered status mods. Your other, non-damage mods are plastered at the bottom of the screen while Ordis cheerfully sings about his love of mods and the stars, how Jupiter gives a most melodious rendition of Hail to the Queens, etc. I really would like menu music when looking at the weapon modification screen.
To keep from being misunderstood, I use an overly simplistic model to show how the mod system we're proposing would streamline and match our propositions while retaining the wishes of the developers at this point in time. I have not spoken so much upon damage or status mechanics at this time because discussion is still ongoing. Still, a base aspect of our discussion, whatever we propose, absolutely requires reining in of armor. I may be stating the obvious or repeating what has been said before, but I repeat it again to make sure that is understood by all privy to our conversation.
These are not solely my ideas but have incorporated some ideas put forth by others in this thread. In time, I will make a more due consideration and, should nothing come up, after the discussion runs its course I will gather our ideas into a PDF for distribution amongst our members and send Steve a copy for his perusal.