TinFoilMkIV
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Posts posted by TinFoilMkIV
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My biggest issues are the unresponsive blocking and ability to be hit on wake up. I think the blocking issues would be fixed if the game registered holding the block button, instead of seemingly only being able to start blocking when pressing the button. The problem currently, is that if you press block before you're able to act, such as when you're being hit, or standing up, you end up just standing there like an idiot and eating attacks to the face. That's not good for a fighting game. The whole point of guarding in a fighting game is to stop yourself from being attacked. If pressing it the slightly wrong way makes it completely non-functional, then it's not really doing it's job.
The wake up is a bit less of a problem, but still pretty big. Getting knocked down is supposed to be bad, but it's not supposed to outright lose you the game against a competent opponent. While it's not always that level of bad, it's still giving away lots of free hits and potentially looping into a complete loss.
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It depends on what the your goal is, and the reasoning behind it. There are both perfectly valid, and utterly pointless reasons and methods for nerfing things, as well as buffing things. If you're fine with the state of things and don't wish for any change, that's fine. But to claim that any and all change of a certain type will be bad is simply false.
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You're wrong because endgame obviously starts at level 9999, not this measly 1000+ nonsense.
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14 minutes ago, iuki. said:
GW2 uses dedicated servers. They also operate on a F2P model. And when there is updates, the servers do not go down it is the same as wf, kick to launch client > dl update > get back into game right after; zero server down time due to mega server tech. I don't buy that excuse.
I will never like P2P match making: it saves the company a ton of money but at the expense of user experience, which is never good.
Usually lag and or loss of connections to the mission among other things. Meh.
I wasn't aware that was a thing. I accept being wrong about that. Though when you say "kick to launch client", do you mean you get forced out of the game briefly? If so Warframe does have a bit of an advantage with the restart being at your leisure, and not forcibly interrupting long activities.
Sounds like you have particularly bad experiences with P2P, which is gonna happen, so understandable. And I do believe that if we could just flip a switch, that dedicated servers would indeed be an improvement. Unfortunately it's nowhere near that simple. the only way I'd see DE going that way for the full game would be if they were actually building a new game, like a sequel. Which I don't think is happening any time soon.
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You're not entirely wrong. The issue though, is that as soon as things become "statistically" dangerous, you see lots of people bringing in the tools that just "turn off the numbers". Doesn't matter if the enemies can insta-kill the entire party and have billions of hp if they never get to attack and such. That's the point where you get "Bring X or gtfo".
I think DE does a good job of making the higher end stuff not very easy for people who don't have everything, while not being so hard that no one wants to carry an unprepared player through it. I'm certain they intentionally err on the side of making things way too easy, with the intent to make sure the most interesting content is accessible to most players who put in any real effort. We could certainly do with some higher difficulty versions of content though. Since it seems they want to have content be accessible as possible, our best bet might be to just have alternate versions that ramp the difficulty up a bunch. The next question though is going to be how to reward players enough that people have reason to do said hard content more than once without making people feel like it's the only version that gives good rewards.
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While I agree that P2P isn't an ideal connection type, I find it to be adequate the vast majority of the time, and switching to dedicated servers seems unlikely at best.
For those talking about both how long Warframe has been around, that doesn't exactly make the switch more realistic. In fact it likely makes it even harder to shift from P2P to dedicated servers. Unless you build a game with the intention to be able to swap between connection types, it's going to be very difficult even with a relatively simple game. Given the circumstances of Warframes early days, I'd ask why DE bothered wasting resources and dev time on such things if they had. Assuming they did not do any of this, a fairly reasonable assumption in my opinion, then the age of the game is actually a hindrance. First you have to have someone who's familiar with the original netcode, and remembers how all the pieces fit together to even consider trying this, and then you have to replace the code and how it interacts with every single part of the game. Even if money were not an issue, this is a monumental task.
For the money side of things, as has been brought up, good dedicated server setups can become very expensive. Specially when dealing with essentially a global product across multiple systems. DE may be enjoying a great deal of success currently, but their budget is based on the P2P cost of operations. Not something that can be shifted very easily. In a perfect world, I'd be all for shifting to reliable server based connection, but I don't think it's an actual possibility, and I can live with that.
While it may be easy to overlook, we also enjoy some fairly nice benefits of good use of P2P being the main connection type. For one, the actual requirements to access the game seem to be far more lenient than full multiplayer server based games. I have been on networks that do not allow a connection to virtually any multiplayer game, yet I can log into Warframe just fine. Granted on such connections I cannot access chat, or connect with other players whatsoever. I can however engage in any content that doesn't require other players to be present. Which as it turns out, is a great deal of the game. I suspect this isn't a big selling point for most players, but it is something I personally appreciate very much.
The other big thing that affects a much larger portion of the player base, is how updates work. I'm speaking about our ability to continue doing whatever we were doing in game freely until an update is actually live, then simply restart our client to update our game. Now imagine if Warframe actually kicked everyone off and became unplayable for varying amounts of time, every time we had a hotfix... It's easy to overlook this when thinking of other games, as they tend to do the rarer, but much larger updates, meaning this is rarely interrupting much of any single players play time, and is far far easier to schedule and notify players about in advance. At the very least I suspect our Eidolon hunting enthusiasts would not enjoy the far far more frequent interruptions to their night cycles. Ultimately I suspect this is something we could all get used to, but it's also something I believe most players very quickly start to take for granted, and don't realize just how much of a convenience this really is.
Sever based connections aren't all sunshine and roses either. Aside from the costs, there's the fact that the server's performance dictates a players connection quality regardless if the player has a flawless connection. It may not be common these days, but I have certainly played games at times when there was server trouble resulting in the game behaving as if I had 700+ ping. It is not fun, and it's something that there is no player side workaround. You cannot simply avoid public games (this would affect solo play), or just group with friends you have stable connections with. And while it's not common, it would almost certainly crop up from time to time.
That said, server based connections have a great deal of pros, and as most of us know, P2P has all kinds of issues. Of course it's not black and white with servers being superior to P2P in every way. While I think it's fine to wish for server based Warframe, I doubt it's ever going to be a thing, and hopefully people can appreciate some of the benefits we do get from it.
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3 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:
That's actually very easy. Forcing teams to split up for different tasks to accomplish an objective, or having tasks that specifically require multiple people to work.
Railjack shows some good examples of this already.
What if there was a gauntlet, even one that calls for stealth, that only allowed one player in, and the rest of the group has to defend a specific location in order to make sure that player can get through the gauntlet... and that player's success allows the rest of the group to move through to the next part of the mission somehow.Yea. That's the way I'd likely go with it as well, but I wouldn't necessarily call that a "combat oriented challenge". The most challenging part of your example would almost certainly be the player running the gauntlet. A group that was serious about minimizing the risk of failure would in all likely hood result in the other three sitting around staring at their watches and occasionally swatting away whatever enemies are trying to bother them.
Railjack does have the opportunity to have what I would call truly challenging content. Largely due to significant portions of it having nothing to do with our standard combat mode. Our Warframes and their weapons are the greatest obstacle to straight combat ever being difficult to well equipped players.
3 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:Eh, depends on how you design the encounter. You see this being a problem even in WoW hardmode raiding, though, and it's not really avoidable. There's times where world-best raiding guilds would take a raid that's half druid just because of a specific spell being too damn useful, forcing Blizzard to change some of the encounter design specific to how that spell works.
If you have only 4 players to worry about, it's easier to design around.
I see this in Warframe more as features for how to handle an encounter better, and could actually create unique metas for encounters that the devs may not have expected. Look at the Razorback fight. Some frames can completely bypass those laser barriers to get to the Bursas. Hell, Hydroid can actually afflict the Razorback with his water trap, though it can still move out of it and fire missiles.
Player creativity like that should be rewarded, frankly.And I'm personally totally cool with that, but it doesn't result in content that's legitimately hard once you add in good preparation and any kind of teamwork. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually happy with Warframe how it is. I've accepted that it won't be able to do literally everything I want, how I want it to be. At least not any time particularly soon.
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6 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:
As for under-modding my gear, I wouldn't do that. For me that breaks the game loop and kills the purpose of the game, which is exactly farming and collecting all that gear. That suggestion always misses the point for me. One thing I do however is use frames and weapons considered off meta, and build them as well as I can and see how far they can go. I enjoy doing that, but it's still min-maxed builds for those loadouts.
That's actually a very good point.
I do agree that the game is really better if you don't worry too much about being completely optimal, but that's always going to be a thing when it comes to even considering creating "hard" content. Too many frames have abilities that can break nearly any encounter all on their own... Then you got up to three other people to consider. While not impossible, I don't expect to see any combat oriented challenge that manages to require real coordinating without being utterly obnoxious. At least not anytime soon. Eidolon's sorta do? But at the same time you only need one person with a clue as to what to do, so the coordination isn't a real requirement imo.
I'd personally be totally fine with toning down the player abilities to allow more challenges that don't need to rely on outright immunities, but I doubt that's ever going to happen.
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Now go ask anyone who regularly completed trials if they were actually hard... They weren't. Figuring them out without an experienced guide could take some work, but they were more puzzles than tests of skill/power. Once solved you just repeat steps 1-4 and claim victory. I will say one thing they had going for them that we don't really have anywhere else outside Eidolons, is a need for some level of coordination between players. I wouldn't complain about having more group-centric content that needed people to do different tasks. Railjack seems to have some of that, so I guess we'll see how it works out.
Far as the argument that people can just not cheese this so called "challenging content"... How exactly is this different than telling people to just under-mod their gear and such for the content we do have? The missions we do have can actually be plenty difficult if you don't just completely brute force them with crazy numbers and limitless energy and such.
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15 hours ago, Sandshrew said:
allowing deranking of mods, allowing using mods at less-than-current rank
I'd very much like this to be a thing.
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100% needs to be a thing.
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That could be an interesting special condition, but I wouldn't really want it as a standard feature.
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I totally agree, however I don't think it's very likely at this point. DE seems to be in full on, crazy new content mode, with enough announced to keep them busy for quite a while. That combined with a couple really good 3rd party resources for market style trading makes me think that they aren't likely seeing it as a priority.
Right now you got, pretty much two in game choices. Those being Trade Chat, and Maroo's Bazaar. I suspect most who've looked into trading can find the trade chat channel easily enough, though it's use is rather questionable. Certainly better than not having a dedicated channel. Maroo's on the other hand is nice in that it let's player basically set up a display that shows what they have for sale and how much, but has the issue of no way to search for a specific product or player other than the local chat. So in game trading resources do exist, but are pretty minimal and really not great for any long term traders.So as I mentioned before, there are two (that I know of and actually use) websites dedicated to warframe trading and work quite well. Though you still have to go in game to conduct the actual trade, it usually works quite well in my experience. Those two being https://warframe.market/ and https://riven.market/ . If you're looking for general trading, the first is for you. The Riven site is dedicated entirely to Riven trading.
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Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see anything people would call a true end game challenge. Our tools are far too varied and powerful beyond mere numbers for DE to ever create anything that's a real threat to a truly serious group of players. Not without absolutely neutering the players abilities and weapons during said challenge. There are groups that are capable of running endless modes nigh indefinitely,with the main limiting factor being life responsibilities and schedules of the players themselves, rather than anything in game. Players have killed enemies above level 9999. There are setups to make entire maps worth of enemies completely and absolutely incapable of harming the players. People have dealt enough damage in a single hit to reach the hard cap of allowed damage within the engine.
Without resorting to literal invulnerability, hard damage caps, and status/ability immunity, there is no enemy that can stand for very long against a well prepared and determined group of players. And god forbid DE every try to reduce our power ceiling whatsoever... I think many of us have seen how players react to news of any change that even has the possibility of being an overall nerf.
Even if DE managed to tune content to be challenging for the most ideal group, it would result in nearly any other team/equipment composition being completely ineffective due to just how strong our overall capabilities and certain combinations really are. If an enemy outputs enough damage to threaten a player with 99.99% damage reduction, anything less than that will be vaporized. If it's balanced around a group putting out several thousand times their weapons paper damage, then any less and the fight takes exponentially longer to finish. The more difficult the requirement, the less tools we have that are capable of even being able to compete. You balance around allowing player variety? Optimized groups will make it look like a joke.
So as nice of the idea of content that really challenges and tests player skill is... I honestly do not see it ever being a thing. Not for a standard game mode. Perhaps in a challenge specific to a more limited mode, like operator only, or archwing only... but never with our actual warframes and standard weaponry. Warframe really isn't designed in a way that will currently allow it.
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FYI for those who either didn't watch the devstream in full, or just completely missed that part. They stated specifically that stuff like how mods interact with the new combo counters and stuff is going to be covered in a dev workshop. They didn't address that stuff in the stream because a combination of things not being finished and them not having enough time to address all the specifics.
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Just because some games have crossplay does not mean all games can have crossplay. Sony is very much involved in that decision. That said. cross-save is far more likely. Where your progress will carry over between systems, but you likely wont be able to actually play with players on different systems. At least not between PC and console due to the game being on different update versions. Actual crossplay is more likely between consoles, but still not something I expect to see anytime soon, at least with Sony, as it requires those companies to come to an agreement over it.
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There are rumors that they're trying to get cross-save between PC and Switch, but no official word on it at the moment.
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The same reason no other game is doing it either. Fortnite is a special exception likely due to sheer popularity. Though even now it seems Sony has changed their minds and are locking down accounts so they can't be played on other systems. Unlikely Warframe will be able to get special treatment to make cross platform saving a thing anytime soon on PS4 or Xbox. There's talk of them attempting it with Nintendo, but we'll have to wait and see if they pull that off.
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The issue isn't the reality of what the game has to offer, but how things appear to players who don't yet know any better.
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Absolutely agree that the first impressions for the market and such are absolutely awful for new players. Blueprints need to be way more up front where they can be easily seen for new players. Also having some kind of newbie recommended section would most certainly not hurt. Show off the fully built credit weapons and such to get people into things while they figure out the crafting.
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There was a panel specifically about voice acting, and he was indeed present and part of that panel.
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It's all business stuff from Sony and Microsoft mainly. They don't want to give up any customers at all, and DE seemingly doesn't have the leverage to convince them otherwise. Some games can pull it off, but even that might be coming to an end...
https://www.reddit.com/r/FORTnITE/comments/87f87v/psa_be_careful_about_what_platforms_you_link_and/
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17 hours ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:
There is 1 playstyle for pretty much most of the game: run as fast as possible to the target...kill or destroy it...run as fast as you can to extraction. The only times you deflect from that is while running endless or ESO...in which case the go to strategy is: CTFOOI. The rest are details.
While I generally disagree with your views here, this statement is objectively false. If I play a capture mission and kill any enemies other than the target, or stop to grab an ayatan star or something, am I then not playing Warframe? Just because there is a clear and objectively most efficient playstyle does not make it the only playstyle.
I personally believe that it's in a person's best interest to pursue playstyles that they find the most enjoyable even if they're sub-optimal. Of course it's well within other players rights to not be happy about someone playing in a way that doesn't align with their own very well in a public environment.
You could argue that making "all the interesting things" completely optional and something a player has no need to explore ever is poor design, and I'd sometimes agree. The thing is that one of Warframe's big principles seems to be player freedom and choice, which it does by making very few things truly mandatory for a player to make use of
17 hours ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:Experience what exactly? A gun that shoots slightly different? To do the same mission over and over with the same mandatory mods for the same resources you need to build a slightly different gun to do the same mission you were OP for to begin with yet again but only slightly more OP this time...and the enemies even slightly more irrelevant?
If you like to grind then you like to grind. But don't tell me the game changes significantly if you use the Vipers over the Akjaggara.
Because every gun in warframe is an automatic hitscan weapon... Now ignoring the fact that there are still plenty of weapons that have very significant differences in mechanics, the answer is still very much yes. Unless you truly believe that there is one ideal weapon that will suit any and every players preferences perfectly, then there is plenty reason to at least give similar weapons a try. Slight differences in fire rate and recoil and reload speed and such can be a very significant difference depending on a persons preferences.
On the final note, I'd say you picked a poor choice for your last example, as to me, a person who very much prefer's semi-auto sidearms to full autos, the Akjaggara does change the game significantly for me versus using the Vipers.
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During a conversation about new players and weapon/warframe slots, it came up that (among many other things) the options they have to use the starting platinum on is very obscure. Also by extension the market place does a very poor job at explaining itself to new players as well.
I came to the conclusion that the market place could very easily start new players on a "recommended items" page instead of the current "featured" items, which does nothing for clarity to players who aren't already familiar with the market.
For new players I would definitely put warframe and weapon slots at the top of the page, as these are almost universally recommended purchases for starting platinum, and it is frequently a sore point when a new player is blindsided by the limited inventory space. From there I would also include all the straight credit purchasable weapons, as well as the blueprints for weapons that are available at mastery 0-2. So that new players can clearly see a list of weapons they can potentially make early on, without the confusion of putting the platinum purchase of full weapons over the ability to buy blueprints.
As far as when this feature would be the default, I would say have a check box akin to "don't show me this when I open the market" type deal. I considered having it just stop after a certain mastery rank, but that could cause confusion on it's own for players that rarely visit the market, or just don't know why their home page on the market is suddenly full of things that aren't immediately relevant to them.
I would also say that such a feature could greatly benefit from becoming a permanent thing to help guide players in all stages of the game to new or highly relevant items. For higher mastery ranks the recommended page could include things like weapons that require another weapon that the player owns to build. As well as warframes and weapons that just became available for their current mastery rank and perhaps one or two ranks below, depending on the number of items this includes. This could also be a place where there may be enough space to reasonably put the blueprint for listed items next to the completed item to demonstrate that the market offers both options to players, without creating undue clutter in dedicated sections of the market.
Primarily I think something like this would be an immense help to the new player experience, as well as an opportunity to more clearly show equipment options to less new players as well.
Frame Fighter is ridiculously clunky
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I never expected it to be fantastic, but I did expect some things like block being functional in a practical scenario...