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nicolajtheking2

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Posts posted by nicolajtheking2

    Dante is dead, thanks DE

    in Dante & New Weapons Feedback

    Posted

    It's so sad to see DE kill their newest warframe like this, I was there when they stopped Styanax from being fun to use by limiting him to only a single cast of his 4 while in the air, DE is basically doing the same to Dante, they're stripping all the FUN from him and are going to leave him as a broken buggy mess.

    I guess I'm going back to maining Protea and hydroid again, until they too get hit with the nerf sledgehammer for no reason...

    • Like 11

    Expectations & Trust

    in Dante & New Weapons Feedback

    Posted

    2 hours ago, AEDasher said:
    Another post about Dante? Yes, I'm here to add my voice to the discourse, just like DE says I should do. "Provide feedback"
     
    This is hardly the first time DE has nerfed something really hard. And this is hardly the first time the community has been up in arms. But I have to say, this time feels different. Why? Expectations.
     
    Dante released with fanfare. A pleasant grind for a surprisingly good frame. A double whammy! He's got a solid kit that doesn't REQUIRE specific mods to be usable, meaning less well equipped players can also get a good amount of use out of him. And we're coming of the heels of Qorvex, who you would be forgiven for forgetting he even existed. (I certainly had to go check who the last frame was) All of this combined with the recent surge in the game's popularity, meant that it was a perfect storm.
     
    Which brings us to the nerf. Which on any level, does not make sense, and even worse, makes the team look like liars or just not properly communicating internally. (Which I don't believe either to be true, I personally think this was just a bundle of poor decisions)
     
    The community team, and Rebecca herself, all said that the nerf would be "small" and even ADMITTED Dante didn't meet ANY of the "nerf" thresholds they look at. Dominant playstyle? I played quite a bit and at most saw 2 Dante's in one mission, and was commonly the only one. (I understand that this is personal experience yet I would think a "dominant playstyle" would have a more clear impact) Automation? He is the most active frame in a LONG time. Disruptive to others? Dante himself had NOTHING to do with the disruption that was being cited as the issue. OVERGUARD is the problem. 
     
    But the cherry on top had to be when they admitted the nerf was essentially based on "feeling." And that "feeling" resulted in a complete NUKING of Dante's tragedy along with hitting the overguard and page flight. Now I want to clarify that I actually had no issue with the overguard nerf nor the page flight. But to hit him with the infamous "line of sight" requirement ALONG WITH the rest was just completely out of line with the EXPECTATIONS they set. A "small tweak" based off initial "feelings." All done within 1 week of release.
     
    Yet we're not done here, let's play along. Let's say Dante was good at wiping the map, then what about the other, much older frames who are blatantly hitting one of the thresholds while ALSO clearing the map? Octavia plays the game for you AND subjects you to another person's lovely music taste (just mute them, lol). Saryn has been the queen of map deletion for years. Yet Dante who, as we clarified had a "perfect storm" to release in, gets nerfed based on a "gut feeling." I should add here that I do NOT want a nerf to them. It's just hypocritical of them to let Octavia and saryn live while Dante gets bludgeoning with the nerf bat.
     
    So here we are, with a brutalized dante and an angry community. Now I see it coming, "dante isn't dead." And yes, I've used him since. I just got done trying out the Line of Sight "fix." I won't act like it didn't improve him. Of course it did, now he ACTUALLY hits enemies that you can see. He's still significantly weaker, and going to be relegated to weapons platform very soon, because that's where warframes go to die. It's like the "love boat" or "hallmark channel" of warframe. And to those who would argue "he still kills enemies," I say Warframe is all about eliminating enemies as fast as possible, and when things actually get tough, we're all equipping Saryn again.
     
    So what do I think should happen? Just revert the Line of Sight change. Everything else was in line with "small tweak." And no, I don't think the recent LOS update is enough. But ultimately this comes around to the expectations they set. And how this will likely have lasting ramifications. It's just a ding on their "trust" that could have EASILY been avoided.

    I mostly agree with you, I myself believe that DE should just restore him to how he was at release, instead of adding and nerfing things based on incredibly fallible subjects such as "Feeling" and then proceed to ignore the community when they call them out for their BS, I swear, it's like they don't even know their own game anymore...

    • Like 1

    Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

    in PSAs

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, DarthVZ said:

    Last hotfix: We listened to SOME of your feedback and implemented NONE of it. 

    Let me fix that for ya.
    "Last hotfix: We listened to NONE of your feedback and implemented NONE of it. "

    • Like 2

    Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

    in PSAs

    Posted

    1 minute ago, RivaAurelius said:

    If the changes aren't reverted I will be requesting a refund. We don't want LoS on Dante. We don't even want LoS that WORKS on Dante. We want the Dante we BOUGHT on launch with our very real, hard earned money.

    +1

    • Like 2

    Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

    in PSAs

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Obitas said:

    If you dont remove the LoS requirement for Tragedy and are adamant on your decision to keep it I hope to god that you add the same requirement to ALL AOE SPELLS THAT ARE DISRUPTIVE. No more Saryn spores and miasma, no more Mirage 2, no more Volt 4. Either you remove it from Tragedy or you change them all no in between. You already ruined all relevant CC from frames so you might aswell ruin all relevant aoe spells from frames too.
    This whole hotfix was a joke.

    I agree, and the joke is not even good...

    I'm not mad at DE, I am FURIOUS at them for doing this within A WEEK of his release, they did him dirty just like styanax and probably jade too for all I know!

    The first truly fun warframe in years and they kill him in a week...

    • Like 1

    Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

    in PSAs

    Posted

    1 hour ago, [DE]Pablo said:

    We botched the LoS change to Dante yesterday, I apologize for shipping it in that state. We will be making changes later today to improve it, details ahead.

    One silver lining that came from this mistake is that we have decided we will revisit older LoS checks to use this improved version in a future update.

    Old LoS check:
    We do a raycast, basically draw a line from you to the enemies center and if nothing interrupts the line along the way they are considered on sight. Raycasts ignore other enemies.
    Additionally we had a bug that prevented it from working on ragdolled enemies, so if they were pulled by vortex or whatever they were totally invisible to the ability.

    The main problem with this approach(aside from the huge ragdoll bug) is that a single raycast can easily trigger as false if for example there is a small railing between you and the enemy. Abilities like Radial Blind, Vast Untime and Rotorswell for example use this same logic right now. 

    New LoS check:
    First if the enemy is within 5 meters we don't do LoS at all, we just assume they are visible. Then checks if the enemy is being rendered, which works for any enemies on screen, so if you see even their pinky toe, they are considered visible. Then for enemies behind you instead of one raycast it does three, one to the top, another to the center and finally to the feet and if any of them are successful, then we determine it is visible, this means false blocks are much less likely.

    Again, this should've never happened, but we will try to make the best of it, and hopefully the overall game will end up better for it.

    Just admit already that you messed up and revert dante's nerfs, you bound him when he was supposed to be UNBOUND!

    • Like 5

    LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

    in PSAs

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Awaidaqor said:

    Just do note that the reason players were having so much fun with Dante was because there's no LoS check on him. It's extremely frustrating. Please look at Brozime's short, showing that a desk can block his Tragedy. 

    Edit : I didn't see you made a video showing improvements on LoS. I appreciate a lot your commitment but, firstly this should be applied to LoS in general, and secondly I still don't trust LoS in a "having fun" point of view. Actually I don't like the general concept of LoS and I'm not the only one, simply because Warframe is a game full of collisions that will inevitably cause inconsistencies with LoS checks. Not only that, but just having to reposition yourself because there are multiple corridors for example is strictly annoying.

    Dante not having LoS was truly the thing that made him so fun to use. I wouldn't mind if he didn't share his overguard to allies at all.

    Here is the short:

    Spoiler

     

     

    1 hour ago, Waeleto said:

    the REAL show begins today when the new hotfix arrives, will they listen or will they ignore feedback YET AGAIN 

    Let's be real, DE does not even know what the word 'feedback' even means...

    • Like 2

    LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

    in PSAs

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, FBalfour said:

    Great job ignoring the community. We say no line of sight, you say "worse make?" We say no, you DOUBLE DOWN? WE DON'T WANT LINE OF SIGHT. YOU'RE ACTIVELY MAKING HIM JUST A S#&$TY GARA.

     

    I'LL REPEAT

     

    WE SAID THE ISSUE IS LINE OF SIGHT BEING IMPLEMENTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, NOTHING ELSE. REVERT DANTE. YOU'VE GOT MAYBE 12 PEOPLE DEFENDING THIS, AND EVERYONE ELSE ANGRY ABOUT IT.

    +1

     

    7 minutes ago, yeahnil said:

    Well they made whatever profit they wanted to make I reckon. I also bought the tennocon ticket, because I was having fun for a change, instead of playing the same 4 frames

     

    It was the same for me and my 2 friends I play with on the regular, we were having fun for the first time it literal years and along comes DE and says: I THINK THE #*!% NOT!!!

    • Like 2

    LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

    in PSAs

    Posted

    1 minute ago, sunderthefirmament said:

    Honestly, I agree.  His AOE damage falls off hard.  He trivializes(ed?) the star chart, but so does basically everyone.  I can walk through missions with Maim active on Equinox and achieve better results than Dante at that level.

     

    Stapling a famously wonky DE attempt at a LoS check onto his nuke is just going to gut him.  I'm really surprised these nerfs were so heavy handed given the way Reb framed it ahead of time.

    here is a snip from reddit with the original message from [DE] REB
    image.png?ex=6621b3c7&is=660f3ec7&hm=c5adc51328fcc9175f6918c9ecef5a0d77b24954e39b8bf1d9ee0ab259b49bcd&=

    • Like 3

    LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

    in PSAs

    Posted

    Just now, LordOfKenpo said:

    Its actually 26 pages, there's another thread with 16 more pages

    soon we'll have an entire books worth of people telling DE that the did something wrong and they are still staying silent instead of at least TRYING to do damage control in some way...

    • Like 6

    LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

    in PSAs

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, CRimZonShinobi said:

    I understand the overguard changes as he was an immortal room killer, but touching tragedy was completely unneeded seeing as so many other warframes can room wipe, corrosive hydroid and thermal sunder high range gauss as an example

    The examples you just gave would go in one ear and out of the other with no resistance.

    • Like 1

    LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

    in PSAs

    Posted

    Just now, Xynerath said:

    They are aware of the community's negative connotation towards nerfs and yet they do this...

    The worst part is that Rebecca said that the nerfs would be *small* not something like this, how can they expect us to trust them again when the DOUBLE DOWN on an objectively BAD DECISION IN THE EYES OF THE COMMUNITY.

    • Like 14
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