kuciol
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Posts posted by kuciol
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4 hours ago, SordidDreams said:
So I guess you missed the part where that whole comparison thing was a response to SneakyErvin comparing kuva gains to endgame farming in other games? Or is that just more wilfull misinterpretation on your part?
His games were somehow relevant, with many similar aspects yours on the other hand were nowhere near that. He is comparing F1 to Nascar, you are comparing it to scuba diving.
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39 minutes ago, Lasura said:
Yes but I find that's the general player. There's more people that just want to have a good time and will never check a wiki than there's try-hards.
I do want some harder endgame content but I think we forget that we're only OP because we worked hard on it and... Isn't there pleasure to be derived from that in itself?
We are kinda OP from the get go you know. We just get more OP as we progress. Im not as much opposed to hard endgame content as im just stating the fact that i wont be participating in it and judging by the past iterations of such things i dare to say there is a lot more players like me then there is players that look for such thing. I got Destiny 2 for free and i didnt even install it because thats not what im looking for, i play warframe for what it is and not what some players want to make of it.
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1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:
Yes, the point of which is "you can make the comparison go any way you want, so you can't really draw any conclusions from it". Anything else you'd like me to explain in more detail?
No because you cant , you are the only one bringing up irrelevant, completely different games that have nothing in common with warframe or topic at hand.
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14 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:
So I guess you completely missed the part where I said that comparison isn't valid? Or is that just more wilfull misinterpretation on your part?
And then you proceeded with :
1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:Sure, you can look at those games. Or you can look at other games, like Morrowind or Dark Souls, where loot is static, and if you know where to go, you can get whatever you need very quickly. And those games are widely regarded as some of the greatest ever made; things like Grim Dawn or Marvel Heroes aren't.
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3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:
Yes you did.
Further proof you are just a sad troll. Keep assuming and comparing warframe to single player games that makes your arguments very relate-able you know?
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33 minutes ago, nslay said:
As for gaining nothing for instant access... Tell that to people who pay cash for instant access. Something is gained for those players.
Thats just praying on impatient but they gain really nothing. Its not competitive game after all so a week here or there doesnt change anything.
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1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:
That is true, you quietly assumed it.
No I didnt. Read next sentence.
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6 hours ago, JohnTheMango said:
Well then the people that are unhappy and also the people that left neeed to realize they asked for the changes and the company had to compromise. Trying to make both sides happy, either do that and lose a % of people that is smaller than what you could probably lose with doing what only 50% of the people say and want, idk how many people play WoW, so idk if 11mil is a lot or not for it, probably like 20% or something, i guess 20% is better than 50%?
Its about 90% that left. You cant make both groups happy because they want something exactly opposite. Trying to appease to both makes content to easy for hardcores and at the same time to hard for casuals. We already see instances of this with Night Wave when vets complain that its to easy and they are done after an hour and then you had some topics how some of challenges were to hard like PTO and Index. They must pick a side.
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7 hours ago, nslay said:
Pay-to-win does not imply exclusive content that must be bought with cash. It implies that the content is either exclusive or behind some progression barrier.
From wikipedia's pay-to-win article:
That applies to Warframe. The advantage over other players part is subjective as you can see in this entire thread! And nobody really cares if another player is getting, say, Gauss faster because they paid or grinded Kelpie, Sedna and waited 3 days to build him.
Ive never even once said it does. Ive said multiple times its about how the game is handled as whole. In warframe you gain absolutely nothing by having something faster, it doesnt even take that long to get it to begin with and it also gives you easy access to premium currency so it isnt P2W.
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51 minutes ago, Tellakey said:
Oh god this is the second time in an hour that I heard the "go play another game" cliche. Can anyone argue without resorting to it? Sheesh.
So, thing is, I'm not even sure Warframe is casual by design, nor how you even determine it so. Do you ask the devs? Do they all agree? So on, so forth. Right now the community is torn between those who perceive Warframe as a casual game and those who wish to see it evolve beyond it. Neither is necessarily "right" because we have no disclosed vision for the game. It's too dynamic.
But thats the best solution. You want to play different game but instead of actually doing the right thing and moving on you try to change this game. You want to change "core gameplay", the very thing i play warframe for. I dont "perceive" game as casual it is casual. Game gets easier and easier, power creep is on rampage, DE doesnt even want to talk about Raids etc. To not see this you must be in hard case of denial.
48 minutes ago, JohnTheMango said:Why not both?
Go check how WoW is doing thanks to trying to make everone happy (spoiler : they lost 11 milion subs).
10 minutes ago, Lasura said:Seeing how new players I try to get into Warframe struggle with it, I really don't see how you can call the game casual. It's only easy if you put the work in researching,
Because its big and confusing, its many simple ideas bound together. Its not hard or demanding by any stretch of imagination. That and the thing that most new players are just stupid, sorry but thats just true. Go check on youtube some "first impression" videos, half of thos dudes dont even read those giant banners at tutorial and none of them pressed the "tutorial" button in any menu. People are used to to much hand holding and struggle even with simple things.
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22 minutes ago, Tellakey said:
I don't know, man. I'm a big fan of Dark Souls, Sekiro, and the Witcher 3 Enhanced Edition, AKA the one that kills you with every enemy hit. I still can't solo Profit-Taker with ease. It's not because I'm a casual, it's because the game mechanics are a mess. You have to use a very specific load-out and employ a very specific plan of attack in order to take it down.
I think the current state of Warframe nullifies any potential for endgame. I'm still waiting for a grounds-up rework of the core mechanics. We'll talk about endgame when there is even a game to begin with and not this cheese simulator.
You talk to a guy that has 1500h across all 3 dark souls (900 of them in DS2). I like them to but i play Warframe because it is casual. I play Warframe for what it currently is, if i wanted something else i wouldnt be here. If for example whole game would be like Orb Valis at 4th alert level i wouldnt be playing it. I like my "cheese simulator", go play different game if you want something else.
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6 hours ago, Cubewano said:
I wouldn't even say that honestly, even casual play wanes after a point, this game is more so oriented for new players and people who haven't moved through the power progression of the game. After a certain stage in progression you either turn off matchmaking, play on meta, or get to do nothing each mission, which isn't friendly towards a casual audience in any capacity, and is only friendly to fringe portion of faux difficulty players who really just care about efficiency and loot, and they have their own crux to fall on.
As for what demographic gets to have grievances over the games current state, you can't really shut anyone out given the range of areas this game has been, it has had periods where it was more difficult, periods where team work lasted well outside the early game, it's had co-operative multi man raids, and high efficiency endless reward modes, the games shift focus so many times it has given a dozen different expectations of where it was going and what it should be.
The game gets more and more players the more casual it gets. There isnt a single reason to change current direction as long as it works.
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19 minutes ago, Bioness said:
That video describes Warframes business strategy within the first 5 minutes and even points out that "pay for convenience" is possibly more insidious than "pay to win" because it isn't so obvious.
You completely miss the point. Its not a matter of what you can buy but how you can access the same things without paying. Its about how the entire game is handled that makes it P2W not items offered for rl money. In warframe you get absolutely nothing for having items faster.
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What some people have the hardest time understanding is that Warframe is casual game. Its made for people that cant solo Profit Taker, thats vast majority of players. Complaining that casual game for casuals is not hardcore enough is stupid. No ifs or buts, its just stupid.
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Just now, SordidDreams said:
I see I was right.
I see you are trolling.
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3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:
Technically yes, but in a completely unreasonable amount of time.
Buahahahahaha. Unreasonable? Have you ever played any game?
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1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:
I think you fundamentally, and most likely wilfully, misunderstand my definition, then.
Your definiton is having any gameplay impacting items be sold for rl money being P2W. In Skyrim you must shell out money to even start playing + items are locked behind payed DLC therefore its P2W.
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33 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:
Skyrim.
They already said the big piece of cheese for them is Prime Access.
Skyrim is a single player B2P game. It also has DLC so by your definition its still P2W.
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9 hours ago, Bioness said:
You can prepare in advance to purchase new champions in League of Legends as soon as they come out without paying money. You cannot do that in Warframe and in fact without paying platinum are made to wait 3 and a half days before accessing new frames.
Of course you can, just trade for plat. Thats the difference between Warframe and other games. Premium currency is main currency. I dont care that "somebody has to buy it" if game gives you access to it without paying it cant be P2W. What shop sells has nothing to do with it. Also whats is there to "win" in warframe? You gain absolutely nothing by having something faster. In LoL you gain direct advantage and farming for new champion takes month not 3 or 4 days.
2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:Nonsense, there's plenty of such games.
Prove it. I dont know about a single game without at very least exp booster.
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1 hour ago, Bioness said:
DLC gives a set value to the content, that is the difference. Because of the unknown/varying value to gear and boosters you would be hard pressed to do a cost vs. time comparison for the stuff in Warframe.
League of Legends is an example of a game I would not consider pay-to-win yet is still free-to-play.
A game can be both pay-to-play and pay-to-win, a game can also have DLC and be or not be pay-to-win.
My definition isn't too board. If there is a noticeable advantage on gameplay over other players (PvE does not exempt a game from this) and it is something you buy after the initial cost of the game, I personally would consider it pay-to-win. Again I must stress that pay-to-win is not inherently a bad thing, but there are clear examples where the business model becomes manipulative and unfair, something Warframe is not.
Lol not p2w? Buahahahhahah. A game that gives you direct advantage over oponents if you shell out money to buy champions is not but warframe is? You must be trolling. Pay to win IS bad thing. You either dont know what that is or you are trolling. There is no other option.
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Replace Khora with Hydroid.
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19 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:
Actually yeah, I forgot about those. Nevermind, PoE is not free from P2W either.
According to your (wrong) definition there isnt a single game out there that isnt pay 2 win and thats just silly.
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12 minutes ago, Bioness said:
Warframe has been pay-to-win for years. It doesn't matter if a game is PvP or PvE. The stuff you can buy in Warframe allows you to shave hundreds of hours off of mindless grinding or gain power faster.
The only reason people refuse to use the term is because of all the negative connotations that come with a pay-to-win label.
People misusing the term doesnt make game P2W. P2W means that in order to win you must pay. In Warframe it doesnt matter if you pay or not, you have exactly the same chances as non payers. It doesnt matter if the game is PvE or PvP but it also doesnt matter what item shop offers. If the game allows you to gain access to the same items through gameplay and its not unreasonable chore to get them it is not and never will be pay to win. "Mindless grinding" is everything this game has to offer, thats the entire point of this game, by skipping it you are ripping yourself off of gameplay.
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You cant have it in background and you cant have sound turned off, you also have to turn on "share my activity" option on twitch. I know its crazy but you have to watch the stream.
Warframe isnt made for Endgame
in General Discussion
Posted
Partialy. Game never had any shifts in direction, it got more and more casual. Now thats their core audience. You cant expect DE to ignore most of players.