OneLunchMan14173

Suppose bump again? Not yet fixed, hope initial post was enough to sufficiently describe it

Suppose bump to this, still havent found the forum editquette page but assuming a 11 day gap warrants a bump for an unaddressed issue

Actually funnily enough, no not at all. Basically what the situation is, is those buffs apply to melee mechanics, specifically combo and the buff it gives you, and the fact that exalteds share those mechanics/systems, without sharing their mod slots is more of a fundemental aspect of the whole weapon and modding parts of the game, not even necessarily oversight, aspect of it . Think of it like a mod for bows that says it boosts the fire rate of bow weapons, not this weapon, not a mod only equippable by bows that boosts fire rate in general/affects. but a mod that boosts the fire rate if the current weapon is a bow. Another way of looking at it would be if there were gun mechanics that applied to dmg dealt in the way combo does for melee, mods that affected those mechanics would affect exalted guns in the same way. So a melee mod that increases the effects of combo, like gladiators or blood rush or waves, has always affected all melee weapons equipped by design,, just of course most frames only equip one. So as it is specified to act on not-the-current weapon but the mechanic itself, it is by all rights working as intended as we can possible know. Honestly if you are interested I'd recommend looking deeper, the history of this is fascinating, and basically just built on people min maxing their fav frames. Even not considering that, it opens up a lot of interesting ideas. Generally helps compensate for exalted melee weapons not getting stance capacity like regular melee stances, and has been a huge discovery for excal/wukong/baruuk/valkyr players in terms of balance, if you want to consider it an exploit, it certainly hasn't been putting up the numbers to be putting pressure onto the meta, and really i think as far as that goes is basically just the unofficial counter balance to regular melees getting access to arcanes.

Ended up being more than I thought but guess am definitely passionate about the melee exalted frames except valkyr who hopefully I will get soon and become just as passionate about. Tl;dr This isn't the infinite heavy bug change, but likely was caught in the crossfire as this of course does also kill any possible exalted heavy melee combo bugs but it hits a lot of these frames partciularly in optimization and mastery in what I can only assume was to solve a newfound bug, but making the current exalted melee situation worse for it. This has killed melee guidance as its other niche as a melee support aura is directly competing with steel charge and is losing that competition badly. The current state of melee exalted frames I don't think is what is was intended to be achieved with this change and I believe to be negative overall to their play quality and enjoyment of play. If it does give unintended power, these exalted melees are having to compete with melees that are not only stronger in ways, but do not require handling the limitations and systems of exalted weapons and I think there are other ways to address that than this.

Fair bit of this is going to be copied from where i replied in a similar thread but before that since people who aren't aware will likely mix up the whispers in the wall heavy attack negative combo interaction change with this, and will give context to why its important if you aren't aware: in whispers in the wall, performing a heavy attack with an exalted with negative duration would reduce the *active* weapons combo, which is 0, than the *active combo*, which is usually 12x, allowing you to get unholy 12x heavy attack spam. This was noted to be patched of course and the current state is specifically after dante unbound, and I did not see any patch notes regarding this so I am going to operate under the assumption that this is unintentional as particularly in devstream 178 Q&A, it was explicitly addressed that the current state of exalteds, pseudo exalteds and statsticks would ideally be eventually changed when a solution was found, but there wasn't one yet. (paraphrasing it was around minute 45:30 of the youtube vod). So this is not regarding that or that playstyle. As it previous stood, for a weapon of 5 combo duration, equipping melee guidance would set your combo to negative one. Of course you can't actually have a negative duration even in spoilerism, (least as far as we know!), but the effect was that equipping melee guidance would reduce your weapon to be unable to build combo as your hits built a combo of 0 duration if you did not mod the weapon for increased combo in some way, in exchange for buffing your allies combo duration, whicb given that, the mod name, has given at least to me the impression it was intended to be a support mod to melee teammates. This has always been questionable of course where its value as a support aura was a very light hit or very heavy miss as if you have melee focused allies, their builds are assumingly not dependent on ally sources of combo duration which I believe this is the only one, but reducing your combo to zero for exalted weapons allowed you to maintain the same combo for your melee as a whole for example, you could swap to your regular melee and have different utility and purpose than your exalted. One particular use of course for baruuk which is my area I can speak for, is building combo because his own combo is infamous of course for knocking enemies away and struggling to build combo particularly from base star chart lack of enemy density, exasperated in multiplayer where he would have to chase after quickly dying enemies and frankly more problems than should be explained here. That said, the end result of the current state of melee guidance, which again I am assuming a bug, is this, just being stated so at least people can see why this .1 matters so much: Melee guidance shares a polarity with steel charge that gives squad 60% melee dmg and due to an undocumented change, is no longer competitive as a selfish or support option, while some mods are of course going to be better or worse than others, beyond the irony of it being named melee guidance but being the near objectively wrong choice to 'guide' other melee teammates which is itself a niche support option in random matchmaking. In the case, where you are matched with other melee users, ideally multiple, who have built no mods to support their combo duration, and those melee intended builds are not running the melee-focused focus school's combo mechanic change, and they are playing in a way that they get value from an additional 12 seconds duration, it is useful. I can not imagine the odds of how often that occurs but I can only imagine it is comical and not justifiable to be reduced to as its intended value. The melee slot for exalted melee frames has been reduced to being either not worth using, or rendering the exalted weapon "worthless" in the sense of in the macro-level of justifying investing in exalted weapons compared to current options the returns are not as high as they should be, particularly compared to recent melees or incarnon weapons, or the micro way of actual gameplay contradiction of having two separate weapons no longer able to share 1 active combo of melee hits, where if one is intended to be util or damage, it weakens the others use for damage by interrupting existing combo. - Wukong for instance can no longer prime enemies with his 4's large range and follow through and swap back to deal ceramic incarnon tennokai nukes or similar play, - Baruuk has to abandon his base melee and commit to a build that focuses on enabling his 4 and avoid using his regular melee under any circumstances or he now has to build up combo again to be competitive with base melees. - Excalibur now has conflicting wants when he sheaths exalted blade, where continuing to melee at all to play by the excalibur sword swinging gameplay fantasy undoes the combo you have built up before, forcing you to avoid using melee at all until you have refilled your energy/go back into exalted blade state, while not as significant, not being able to justify using the new dex katana on him hurts. - I have no experience to speak on behalf of valkyr so I won't. I'm just a comp sci uni student not a game dev, but these are a few hopefully useful ideas as to temporary measures if the undocumented change needs to stay since i usually try to be proactive about solutions to problems i present: adding some kind of combo modifiers into the exalted weapon abilities that can scale, for example, giving exalted melee combo duration an extension scaling off ability durations, as it is an ability, or strength increasing the combo accumulation rate. This would work well with making combo maintainance on exalted weapons like excalibur and baruuk notably less painful to lose, while letting warframes like wukong and valkyr a little less dependant on getting tennokai mods, so mostly early game quality of life. If the duration change can be added to the ability itself, it would make building exalted melees easier by freeing their modslots, and I would actually say if I can, be outright intuitive. Furthermore on this, while the tennokai mods and system are fantastic, it did also make building exalted weapons even tighter on how mods compete with each other at least until you unlock an exilus slot, but even then it still can be a struggle especially at low MR with less capacity. Reviewing the idea of allowing the exalted ranged hits to build combo, as it stands, for exalted weapon playstyles, they consume resources and are generally more maintainance to use than simple melee, but this does not help wukong or valkyr. But I think the idea of exalted weapons as abilities requiring energy management but less combo management by legitimizing those projectiles as a part of the melees intended playstyle would be a good healthy standard compared to melees who only have to manage combo duration and do not put you into energy gain lockout. at the end of the day, I believe I can say that the players who love these frames are not happy or at best unaffected with this situation, and the ones who don't I do not believe were previously unhappy about the old situation. If it is a intentional policy change since last dev stream or before from the current situation on exalteds and statsticks was announced, I hope whoever reads this considers bringing up the idea of reverting the change if it is easy to do so, or being more clear if it is intended and ideally bettering the situation until it can be addressed properly, for the reasons above and whatever they themselves have. Hope all the tennos and all others reading this have a good day.

cant say i know how these forums work regarding ettique I'm a new poster, but bumping i guess, doesn't seem to be acknowledged in the current bugs list now that ive had time to think about it more, again unless it was intentional, i'm guessing there was some system in place to where if combo duration was below 0 itd show -1 but be in reality 0 cause ofc a negative duration cant exist on a fundemental level, but the game due to some change from dante unbound rounds it up now to the lowest possible. that makes melee guidance, for the true vast majority and not in an exaggerating/raging way, honestly worthless for reasons discussed above so regardless of if bug or a change in dev team policy on stat sticks and exalted playstyle builds Regardless, I suppose all we can do is keep the thread alive, Though I plan to make another tomorrow more specifically how the mod does not give the full minus duration as it should, so if it shouldn't be -1 as said before, could be updated to just let it be 0 Worst case scenario killing baruuk/excalibur statstick setup to make their exalted builds competitive with the current melee options and are never going to acknowledge it but again I do have faith in DE, they did just outright say their stance in dev stream 178 so I think this should be solvable or at least reverted until the underlying problem of combo system interactions with exalteds is changed. personal note, after trying to play without a melee that actually keeps enemies close enough to build combo with low density instead of knocking them into the void and beyond, maybe just lowering the knockback on non-final combo hits for baruuk could at the very, very worst be a compromise?

Have noticed this too, seems same with excalibur/exalted melees. They literally just gave a public statement about it, like they specifically said they wouldn't do anything any time soon, (Paraphrasing) so i can only assume it is a bug, because as you said, hitting anything in melee range holding an exalted now drops the combo statstick, so generally brutalizing desert wind and excals blade's current play but not their power from my testing, since it doesnt actually change the overall damage unless you hit an enemy in melee range and ofc the infinite heavy bug, so like, the change just forces a more passive ranged style of play with the exalted melee (excluding wukong) frames instead of it just being an option and having the tennokai system encourage getting in close when able giving you a nice flow state or alternatively going in to clear trash mobs with the waves/slashes then going toe-to-toe with the remaining threats building up tennokai. if I had to guess specifics, they are trying to address the heavy attack reducing the active weapon combo, instead of the built combo, which of course if it only reduces the current weapon combo, it effectively gives negative duration exalteds infinite heavy attacks, not sure whats behind the scenes of course, but I'm hoping they aren't just slapping melee guidance death sentence to avoid confronting that and never acknowledging it. Melee guidance in its current state if it can't go below 0 is a painful choice now. In random matchmaking, it only has value post nerf if you have teammates who run melee as their core gameplay. But if they have melee as their core gameplay, they have likely built for it by either mods, naramon, or both so the combo duration it gives allies seems a nonfactor in its use even in coordinated group play, like I can't forsee melee guidance providing team value as an aura for maybe 95 games out of a hundred, where those 5 games having a teammate running a melee build that can't keep its own combo without an additional 12 seconds duration, and even then I think they would prefer steel charge dramatically. In the time reading this had a thought and figured might as well drop it while talk of combos and the exalted melee gameplay, in the event a DE staff sees this, if there was a mechanic/effect that triggered on combo loss and scaled dmg or range with combo, that could be interesting, maybe a literal explosion? about as heavy an attack as you can get build up combo, drop the combo and nuke, repeat, maybe a tennokai? As it currently stands, I can't think of any madurai polarity aura mods I would use for a melee frame besides steel charge though I'm sure I don't know all options, and if you wanted to be a team player, dreamers bond is likely a much better choice to play with and queue into nodes, possibly even by melee using teammates. but If it is deliberate, i cant imagine the decisions that went into it, with recent updates, exalted melees are arguably in a worse place relative to other melees with how their stances not giving capacity makes builds have to give up even more to get tennokai access, despite tennokai of course being a nice satisfying glowup for melee in general, at least to me. Like playing ceramic dagger incarnon versus excalibur blade in terms of buildability. Though I guess blade can get element by using a modslot for excalibur themselves which ceramic can't do of course. I guess the patch was likely decided/locked in well before the devstream so could have just been a previous stance and not a contradiction, but that said, I do believe they wouldn't deliberately go against their statement though and that it is a bug and not just an unlisted nerf, and if they do intend to change the exalted system they will do it when they are ready, can see here from the Q&A, 45:30ish ---- hope post didn't sound rude and hope was readable, tired, but saw this post and figured i'd throw my 2 cents here