(XBOX)Avant Solace
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Posts posted by (XBOX)Avant Solace
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8 hours ago, Teljaxx said:
When you are talking about energy weapons, that kind of thing is fine. They use imaginary physics anyway, so they can look however you want. But with bullets, there are some fairly specific mechanics that have to exist for them to work at all. Sure, in some settings, the technology is advanced enough to fit ammo in multidimensional space or whatever. But Warframe isn't quite like that. The Tenno specifically use fairly low tech weapons, because the Sentients could override more advanced technology and turn it against its wielder. And the Grineer are just plain not advanced enough for that. They have a very brute force style to everything they do, yet many of their weapons make very little sense mechanically.
Well for the Grakata specifically, its feed design isn't too out there. There do exist "spiral" magazine drums that can fit a vast amount of low caliber ammo in them. Likewise if the drum has an extended insert (possibly just unmodeld) then it could very well feed all the way into the firing chamber. If it doesn't have an insert, then it could also have an electronic feeder belt that increases the rate at which bullets can be loaded into the chamber. Pretty hightech by today's standards (as non-jamming forms of this are tricky to make), but would be pretty mundane by Warframe standards.
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1 hour ago, Teljaxx said:
They tend to make completely impossible magazines on guns as well. Like how the hek is the ammo on the Grakata supposed to get from that little pod on the handle all the way to the barrel? Or how does that microscopic D-cell battery sized cylinder on the Tenora hold 150 bullets? And of course, all the guns that apparently have infinite ammo capacity, because all you do is flip a lever or something to reload them.
Space magic can only explain so much.
Really its best not to question the design of sci-fi weapons, because they can literally just say "science advanced enough to allow this". At least they haven't done anything near as bad a Borderlands 2's Vladof Gatling barrel.
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2 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:
animations for weapons in general are all kinda fast and loose in that regard
its what you get when you fill a team with graphic design artists, and no actual weapon/martial arts consultants.
last time I fired a Boar Prime the spinning drum magazine tore my fingertips off cause for some reason my Warframe thought that would be a good place to hold it....
Now that you mention it, a lot of the animations are really contradictory. Most of the melee animations are needlessly flashy (too much windup/swing). Warframes will place their hands directly on a weapon's moving parts (many weapons don't even have a safety handle when they really need one like the Boar). Really the Tenno fight like idiots.
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This is something that has bothered me since day one, and was kinda hoping would be fixed with updates: Warframes are actively breaking their thumbs when holding melee weapons.
To put things into context, the thumb is controlled by a ligament that connects to the forearm. If this ligament is overextended the thumb will "break" in a horribly painful manner. This can actually be done rather easily (and even accidentally) by putting stress on the ligament and twisting the wrist at an obtuse angle; something that Warframes are constantly seen doing when holding swords (and even the new Tatsu). The animation gives Warframes a slightly cooler silhouette, but is extremely gut wrenching if you know that angle is as painful as it is.
Normally a one-handed weapon's "resting hold" would be at nearly a 90 degree angle, as the muscles in the forearm naturally tense up at this degree. Its not quite as cool looking, but it is much safer and more realistic.
Image for reference (DO NOT TRY THIS!!!):
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UPDATE: just found a slight fix. Check the main comment for details.
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1 hour ago, (XB1)Vellanite said:
My comment on Oxium Ospreys was about how the new button scheme (you no longer have the option to automatically put away your melee weapon after attacking something - part of this topic about restrictive button combos/control schemes) meant a loss (Oxium) in-game... You haven't explained how this is a different topic. Restrictions to controller layout affect the whole game. This topic is about the whole of Warframe, and our interaction with it.
However, thanks for your opinion. And, yes this thread is definitely about restrictive control schemes in a fast-paced game. I would like to hear about any in-game restrictions these changes have caused that you can think of (that way I'm aware of them). I'm sure everyone else reading this thread would appreciate the same.
Well the main reason I originally swapped up my scheme was so I could aim gunblades more effectively. Having that split second of my thumb off the right stick was often enough of a margin for my target to move out of the may. This isn't much of an issue with regular melee weapons as they have auto-aim, but the bullets fired from gunblades have to be manually aimed.
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9 minutes ago, (XB1)Vellanite said:
For starters, I've only just managed to fix my controller layout (haven't actually played Buried Debts yet). For seconds, my statement was assuming that the player HAD NOT swapped to "gun mode" before finding the Oxium Osprey.
p.s. My statement had nothing to do with auto-blocking. It's about the "loss" of potential oxium.
Either way its a different topic for a different thread. This thread is specifically about how Warframe's button schemes have gotten unbearably restrictive. Restrictive control schemes are fine on games where players don't particularly need ideal comfort or don't have to worry about extra variables; but in a game like Warframe, where everything is fast-paced and thousands of different possible play styles exist, restricting button schemes is just foolish.
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28 minutes ago, (XB1)Vellanite said:
Edit: I just cottoned onto another problem that has also gotten blown out of proportion: I don't know about anyone else, but trying to kill an oxium osprey (NEED MORE OXIUM) as it's about to explode was difficult enough before, but now there will be an extra few seconds of "problem" while you swap to your gun, because you whacked something 5 minutes ago (and have spent the last 5 minutes of your life watching a depressing historical nature documentary).
I don't get it. If you've recently shot something or simply aimed, you should then be in "gun" mode and no longer auto blocking.
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5 hours ago, --Cyberius-- said:
wow, you lot have already killed 'quick melee' 'block' options on the pc, will you never be satisfied with dumbing down of controls.
Its not about dumbing it down, but by having the freedom to alter control schemes. If I want to melee with (RB) and bind both melee channel and alternate fire to (B), then I should have every right to. It feels good and helps me perform better (innuendo intended). Why should people get penalized for wanting to mix things up in a game about having multiple ways to mix things up?
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Good to see this issue isn't exclusive to me and worthy of attention. Really though, why even deny any button re-mapping in the first place? If a person wants to butcher their control scheme for the sake of comfort, let them! Really the only buttons that should ever be "mandatory" are basic movement controls. Everything else should be able to be freely swapped around or even cut out.
Now that I think about it, my best friend totally overhauled his button scheme to something alien for the sake of fluidity (even cutting out his ability to post waypoints). I can only imagine the fiasco its going to be when he realizes what's happened.
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Buried Debts has just launched on Xbox, and I've found a major flaw within Melee 2.9's controller scheme: Mandatory/uncompromising button settings.
For context: I redid my controls so that I could aim with gunblades while still having easy access to abilities, at the cost of secondary fire's accuracy. I did this by making (RB) melee, (RS) ability usage, and (B) into secondary fire. However with this new control scheme (RS) must always have melee channel attached, period. Any attempts to tamper with (RS) will always result in the respec being denied. Ironically the controller allows one to forgo a melee button altogether.
This is rather frustrating as I don't even use channeling to begin with. I'd rather have the option to just remove channeling outright than deal with this.
UPDATE: I have found something of a work-around. While the game throws a fit if you try to move certain controls around, it has no issue with several others. Essentially you can play a game of hot potato with your buttons by moving every button you want changed into place EXCEPT the ones that the game won't allow. While the game gets flaky if you try to move certain buttons yourself, it'll happily relocate these buttons itself if other buttons are being moved. Basically just play around and save whenever you get close to the scheme you want.
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6 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Clem
According to the wiki, there is a 7 day cooldown, so it sounds like you have to wait for 7 days since you last completed it.
Its fine, he came on Sunday before the challenge expired.
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So I've been waiting all week for the weekly "Help Clem" mission to pop up on my alerts, so I can complete the challenge for it. For some odd reason it has yet to show up, and there are less than 24 hours until the bounty ends.
I read that it reappears weekly, and the last time I completed it was either Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Does it only appear EXACTLY 7 days after being played? If that's the case do I truly have little to no window to actually complete this challenge?
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I'm honestly curious, why are the things from round 14 taking so long to port? A technical issue? Licensing? Does it have something to do with the Nintendo Switch and/or how touchy Nintendo gets when it comes to their products?
If it does have something to do with the Switch, then why not only penalize that console? It seems rather unfair to impose a "nobody gets left behind" policy knowing full well that the Switch isn't quite as agreeable as the long established consoles.
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3 hours ago, peterc3 said:
Resolution won't come from the players on this.
True, but it was also the players that stopped it dead in its tracks. So naturally it should be players that start the discussion back up.
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A bit of an old topic, but one that was never quite resolved: Fundamental changes in damage types and everything related. After creating several forum threads and reading up on several more, I believe there may be viable proposal forming; or at the very least a worthwhile starting point for discussion.
In regards to the various damage types, I found that they can be categorized into three different groups: Damage Plus, Defense Down, and Debuffs.
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Damage Plus: These are damage elements that work simply to add more damage over time. Nearly all builds revolve around at least one of them. These elements are:
- Slash
- Toxin
- Heat
- Gas
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Defense Down: Status effects that reduce the amount of raw damage needed to kill a target. While not as heavily prioritized as Damage Plus, they are still very common addition to builds.
- Corrosive
- Magnetic
- Viral
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Debuffs: Basically anything that has an effect that doesn't make it directly easier to kill something. While some are still useful due to their damage tables or tactical effects, they are often low priorities when building weapons.
- Impact
- Puncture
- Cold
- Electricity
- Blast
- Radiation
With this little bit of education out of the way, we can now move to the proposed changes and their implications:
- Slash: The leader of the Damage Plus elements. It is not only capable of chipping off large amounts of health, but it can also ignore both armor and shields. Recently DE gave it a slight nerf to where its effects scale off of Slash damage exclusively instead of total damage. This brought it more in line by making sure only Slash-based weapons could reap the full effect of its effect. What makes it an issue is not so much that it is "too good" but rather its relatives are "too bad". However, I do believe it still needs one slight nerf: Slash effects cannot bypass shields. The logic here is that a bullet/weapon that did not hit the flesh could not possibly create a wound. That said, it would be interesting to see the shields themselves "bleed" in exchange. Not a serious nerf, but rather a simple application of logic.
- Heat: The power to set things alight. While subpar against machinery and shielding, it excels against organic targets and possesses a neutral affinity towards armor. It would be an excellent Damage Plus element where it not for one glaring issue: It can only activate once. Any extra heat effects applied to a target simply reset the initial effect's timer, giving it a limited damage potential. The buff it needs is simple: Allow multiple heat effects per target. This would make heat builds more viable as their DPS would gain the ability to compound.
- Toxin / Gas: These Elements are actually rather good on their own. What makes them falter is that Warframe has some difficulty following its own logic. Using Warframe's logic of elemental combining, then the "Toxin" used in weapons is likely a semi-corrosive highly poisonous liquid. While the actual hit of a toxin round is deflected shielding, the liquid toxin remains and readily harms the target. When cooled, the toxin does not cause apoptosis but simply encourages it (Viral). When exposed to an ionic current, the toxin loses its poisonous properties but becomes highly acidic (Corrosive). When heated, the toxin becomes an aerosol that can cool back into a toxin when exposed to dry air (Gas). The problem here is simply that while Toxin excels against flesh, it is poor against robotics and Infested. Ironically its aerosol form is ineffective to flesh, neutral to robots, and ravages Infested. If Warframe was to follow its own logic, then Gas should be effective (or at least neutral) to flesh. The precise rebalance of these damage tables is up to debate, but this part should be common logic by now.
- Impact: The problem with Impact is that its effect is mediocre despite being a physical damage type. DE initial proposed a "stacking proc" where repeated Impact effects would further disorient the target and eventually make them fall over. This was scrapped after the community argued it to be counter-productive to DPS. While the effect itself was poor, the idea of "proc stacking" is still interesting. With that I have a proposal: Repeated Impact procs have an increasing chance to disarm targets. Essentially the victim would get slapped so silly they drop their gun. This would make it unique as being the only damage type with the "disarm" effect.
- Puncture: While not quite as disliked as Impact, it still has a mediocre reputation. Its effect reduces the target's damage output by 30% for a few seconds. While this is nice on paper, its serves minimal purpose in action. Most weapons/builds are designed to kill enemies as rapidly as possible, so leaving an enemy alive and weakened but not dead is an exceptionally rare occurrence. The proposal for this is a bit of a stretch, but if done properly could make Puncture a viable "Defense Down" element. Enemies effected by Puncture effects have a chance to have their damage reduction ignored. I call this effect "Sundered". Essentially its a mix of Viral and Corrosive where an enemy's armor damage typing still applies, but the damage reduction of said armor has a chance to be ignored in calculation. Imagine an Elite Lancer with 300 Alloy Armor (50% damage reduction); a resisted element like Slash or Electricity would still get a penalty, but the armor's outright 50% damage reduction would be ignored, boosting overall damage greatly. It would need fine tuning, but the concept seems sound.
- Radiation: This is more of a personal nitpick than anything important. When an enemy is irradiated they become susceptible to friendly fire; however I've noticed that this seems to have little to no effect on their overall "Threat level". As a result they will still prioritize attacking the player over other enemies, somewhat undermining the "indiscriminate" assertion.
Other Topics:
On top of modifying the current element types and their effects, some other aspects of damage (and damage resistance) also are overdue for reassessment.
Armor Scaling: As it has been noted time and time again, enemies with armor are always the toughest to defeat, and therefore the highest priority when building weapons. I have personally proposed making the scaling of armor values static to each individual enemy type, to which most have agreed. Basically "light" units like Grineer Butchers would only have around 50-ish armor at all levels, Medium units ~300-500 armor, and Heavy units ~500-1200 armor. By making armor values static players will be encouraged to priorities an enemy's actual weaknesses instead of finding the fastest way to chew off the armor.
"Mandatory" Mods: Essentially mods that always find their way onto every build. While not bad in themselves, they do directly take away from the "diversity" that Warframe's modding system initially promised. Pure damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc) need to be redone in a way that makes them either totally optional to a build, or simply not taking up a mod slot that could be used for something more promising. Likewise Multishot needs to be redone in such a way that its not treated as "extra damage" while still being a potentially valuable addition to the right builds. Really these are all discussions within themselves.
"Outdated" Mods: Mods that have what would have been considered a valuable addition in earlier builds, but fell out of favor as the game developed. Mods like "Rifle Aptitude" that only give a meager +15% status chance. Several mods need to be reviewed so that their bonuses are actually worthwhile compared to newer mods.
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Damage Plus: These are damage elements that work simply to add more damage over time. Nearly all builds revolve around at least one of them. These elements are:
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Spears would be an interesting take. I think the main reason they don't exist is because thrusting weapons/attacks would be hard to utilize within Warframe. The game puts a heavy emphasis on dealing with groups of enemies instead of targeting one at a time, hence why every weapon uses unnaturally wide swings. Though that could make for good opportunity.
All melee weapons have a small degree of "auto-aim" that makes them less likely to outright miss a nearby target. This can be best seen when performing finishers, as the player will "home in" onto a vulnerable target. Thrusting spears could actually take this concept and ramp it up: Instead of using broad pre-scripted motions, spears instead could have a heavier auto-aim that primarily focuses on whatever the reticule is pointing at; increasing the accuracy of the weapon at the cost of being less crowd-oriented.
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On 2019-03-08 at 7:33 AM, 000l000 said:
lvl 160 Corpus crewman 50k EHP
lvl 160 infested charger 30k EHP only
lvl 160 Grineer lancer 1000k EHP
Enough said, damage 3.0 needs to be a thing and damage types need to be reworked/balanced. Shields should be worth of it and infested need more HP and more regenerative skills. Building only corrosive weapons does not make any sense and really impairs Warframe whole gameplay.
Not sure about the Infested having more health (as there whole thing is being an unrelenting horde) but I agree on everything else. What may work best would be to make Armor scaling static, that way higher levels fall more in line in terms of EHP, then simply tweak/remove damage buffing mods so weapons are more in-line with the newly consistent health values.
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2 hours ago, 000l000 said:
Terrible armor scaling AND worthless shield as Corpus humanoids are no threat at high level. There's definitely something really wrong with how enemies EHP are handled right now, which leads to a lot of balance issues.
Damage types for example, corrosive strips armors, viral rips health and bleeds are literally true damage. Other elements are worthless even to deal with vulnerabilities. Gas can be useful but once the enemy is armored you can't kill anything with that. In the meanwhile you can kill pretty much anything with corrosive just because armor scaling is the only thing that protects effectively enemies at the moment. And bleeds don't care about anything so... It also impairs slow weapons since how status/corrosive procs works at high level needs you to apply a lot of procs before you can damage anything heavily armored.
Seriously melee 3.0 is really nice but what we need now is a damage 3.0 update. True damages should be only applied to fall/push/rag doll against obstacles, no weapon should deal this kind of damages since they bypass any kind of protection. Same with corrosive, no weapon should be able to annihilate enemies full defense since armor is the only thing that protects many enemies in this game. First rule in any game is to not break rules - And true damage does that, it only leads to balance issues you can't solve.
We really lack of options to build our weapons, against high level enemies it's pretty much the same build again and again. Why would i care about an impact/cold build that only debuff when i can't kill anything with that ?
This is actually something that deserves to be brought up more: Effective Health and how it influences the game.
A level 30 Grineer Lancer has 1,361.5 units of Cloned Flesh and 281.2 units of Ferrite Armor, giving them an EH of 2637.7. Meanwhile a level 30 Crewman has a Shield of 1096.13 and Flesh health of 816.9, giving them an EH of 1,913.03. On paper this is not a massive difference, as it is an ~37% change. However for the Grineer units, that is EH you HAVE to go through. Viral can temporarily half the health, and corrosive can shave off some off the armor, but the only way to ignore the armor is to deal true damage. That said Corpus shielding can be bypassed outright by toxin damage and slash procs, making their shields worthless.
What could potentially help this may be to make it so that "Bleed" procs have to go through shields before effecting health. It makes sense when you think about it: How can you get a flesh wound if your shield ate the bullet before it hit you?
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Oh good, you guys are already on the 1-hour survival problems. Good to see that was acknowledged quickly.
The problem isn't so much its a challenge, but rather its just a drag to do. Pretty much all other challenges can be done within 30 minutes of dedicated playing or within a couple days of sporadic playing. I feel as though anything that forces you to stay at the controller for more than 30 minutes at a time is counter-intuitive to Nightwave's "Pickup and Play" mentality.
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5 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:
Slash is not the problem, the problem is terrible armor scaling that forces Viral/Slash builds to be meta, and how underwhelming Puncture and Impact are. Nerfing Slash won't make either of these two issues solve itself. I humbly disagree with you on that topic.
Both assertions are correct. However any attempt to promote a grand overhaul of damage and scaling systems is often met with excessive cynicism. Ironically trying to fix up individual point meets similar conflicts. Quite the puzzle.
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5 hours ago, DirePresent said:
The issue comes when you also take into account the badly balanced scaling of the enemies. Why do you consider that slash is op? Cause the further the level of the enemies, the more useless any other proc than slash becomes. I fully agree about nerfing slash but as long as the leveling issue is also taken into account.
One problem is that it's not only slash the problem but also that other status like magnetic and puncture are complete garbage and should be buffed instead.
Yet the biggest deal is how to balance all the combined factors: no matter how much they try to make everything fair, something will escape their radar and a new meta will be born. I'm sure they test all the scenarios they consider typical, and yet someone can find a way to make an ability and/or weapon totally broken (Mirage+Simulor, Nuking Trinity, Nuking Madurai Staticor).
Another risk I can foresee is that too many nerfs... can make everything that should be at the top not very different from the lower gear: it's cool to have a weapon that can shred to bits any level 150 Grinner/Corpus when with your previous weapons you couldnt even scratch them at level 90. But if the actual scaling mechanics are nerfed, then the progress feeling might be affected.
5 hours ago, Drachnyn said:Why would you nerf the thing that works instead buffing of the things that dont work and are useless like puncture and heat procs?
Got the same answer for both of these: The reason Slash is so meta is because Armor scales like a mofo. Really if armor values were largely static and got capped at around 1200 (80% damage reduction) for the absolute toughest enemies, then it would work out just fine.
Really DoT procs should be viewed as icing on the cake instead of the main go-to damage dealers. In a more balanced setting (no insane armor scaling, more useful shielding) procs like Viral(temporary halfed health), Magnetic(shred off shields), and Corrosive(bite off 25% of current armor) would be the ideal damage types (only hindered by being terrible against certain health types).
- A hypothetical Grineer unit capped at 300 units of Alloy armor (-50% base damage) would be extremely sensitive to Viral and Radiation, and moderately weak to Cold, Heat, and Puncture; based on the combined defensive values of Cloned Flesh and Alloy Armor. With the new elemental balances Slash would be pointless as Alloy shaves off an extra 50% of its damage, unless the armor was stripped by Corrosive; but Corrosive is neutral to Alloy so by the time the armor is stripped, a Viral/Heat build would have already killed 5 of them.
- A hypothetical Corpus unit (buffed shields, still squishy health) is a bit trickier to calculate as the health values of Flesh and Robotic are vastly different. That said Magnetic still destroys shielding, Impact as well. Toxin ignores shielding outright, making it effective for chip damage. If Slash has to "bleed" shields before hitting health, then Toxin would become the king of eliminating Corpus.
I actually made a thread regarding enemy scaling and its influence on damage values a little while ago. Check it out here.
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A bit of an old topic, but one that never got quite resolved: The excessive reliance on Slash damage within Warframe's meta.
For those few who are not aware, Slash damage has the infamous ability to deal "True" damage with its Bleed elemental proc. This damage type ignores all forms of defense, making even the tankiest of enemies bleed out in a matter of seconds. To make things worse, the only other damage types that give damage-over-time have some sort of flaw that make them meek compared to Slash procs. So how could we possibly fix such issues? Well here are my proposals:
- Bleed damage becomes Slash damage: The current bleed proc causes "True" damage, meaning it will always deal 100% of its damage regardless of any modifiers. Well if we want to reduce the overall damage Slash does, then why not just convert the bleed proc into slash damage? If the procs have to factor in armor/shield values and their respective damage reductions, then of course it will begin to lose utility compared to better suited damage types like Puncture and Radiation.
- Heat proc buff: Heat damage is one of the few other DoT elemental procs. It has an innate advantage over Slash in the fact that no armor type resists it, making it effective vs all Grineer units. However it is terrible against proto shields, making Toxin a better choice in that regard. The main issue with Heat though is that its procs do not stack, instead simply refreshing its tick/timer. Really if it was allowed to stack its ticks, then it'd make for an effective alternative to a (debuffed) Slash proc.
- Toxin/Gas Rebalance: Toxin is the other DoT element. It hosts the amazing ability to outright ignore shielding, making it extremely effective against most Corpus. Gas damage is capable of doing Toxin procs within an AoE, but oddly is poor against Flesh and Cloned Flesh, greatly limiting its effectiveness as a traditional damage choice. To make things even more bizarre, Gas is neutral to robotic health. Why toxic fumes are bad against organic entities but alright against circuitry is beyond me. Honestly id't make more sense if Toxin did neutral damage against robotic (assuming the toxin is a semi-corrosive liquid, this makes sense) While Gas was somewhat poor against robotic, but neutral to Flash/Cloned Flesh. This way Gas can be coupled with Cold, Magnetic, or Electricity to have a decent all-round elemental combo.
I believe with these simple changes damage values will balance out. Slash, Toxin, and Heat will be directly competitive against each other and support the other damage values on a weapon instead of being the main focus. Slash will be weaker, yet still relevant in many builds. Heat will have a chance to shine as the force of nature it should be. Gas/Toxin will have an easier time fitting into builds as a whole.
Thoughts?
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Gacha Wiggle:
MOA casually wiggles while humming a lovely tune.
Literally just this just in MOA form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojMqY1JJi70
Broken Thumbs
in Art, Animation, & UI
Posted
Kinda getting off topic here... I just wanted to point out that swords are getting held at an impossible angle.