(XBOX)Natfrog123
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Posts posted by (XBOX)Natfrog123
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7 hours ago, Kimimoto said:
since they don't love the game like I do. Guess what?! They quit the game because there's no reason to progress!
I'm guessing they were not going to stick around anyways.
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2 hours ago, Kimimoto said:
It's when you build a team around exploiting a CC ability. For example having a Quake Banshee/Bless for 75% DR and energy/Gara for 90% DR/Buff Rhino, all together they would just sit in a room and kill the map. If you're literally only pushing 1 button and there's no threat of losing, then you're cheesing. If you're just playing a frame and using it's strengths to your advantage, sounds like you're just playing the game. Like Valkyr eventually is going to run out of energy and be vulnerable to getting lit up, Ash will come out of stealth or stand in a bad spot which results in him getting lit up, when Zephyrs Turbulence falls off there's a moment of vulnerability and she can be meleed. Obviously some frames are much better than others at certain roles, but on their own they can't literally be unstoppable.
I also hate camping with a cheese team, it's just not fun. Playing Survival with your friends just using whatever is always fun though, we didn't organize a squad to sit in a corner. During that match we were all spaced out killing stuff. We were still within Desecrate range, but there was no organization there. It's all about the fun and challenge.
I missed the part where you mention that items are farmed/bought and not just handed to said players. If you invest into a game time then in return you should be rewarded with less time to kill. "Cheese", as you put it, wasn't just given out. It was earned. If that is not obtainable then honestly why play a game in the first place. What you find fun others do not. So instead of giving players that option (Ash rework for instance) you force people to play how you like to play while all this time you simply could have just left the game or played solo.
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I am not in anyway this person.
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Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Your point is that CL is better then BS because of the damage, also that damage is unnecessary because fo the enemys. That BS is bad because of the animation,also that the animation from CL killing one by one is fine. That you can dissable armor for more damage before stating that the damage you do is yet again irrelevant.
What i'm on about? I'm beein objective to someone who is not.
NO. That was not MY point. I was talking about 4 players using CP not a dagger weapon however that fact is still true.
CL you do not need to even use the "finisher" but surely you knew that. I am not going to argue how time consuming the ACTUAL finisher for daggers is. It's just not an issue when you bypass it and hit multiple enemies at once.
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Ash cannot out the door do 300K. When talking about CL it is an instant kill against blinded targets. You blind an enemy, slide and press mele. They die. Can I do this to 30 enemies faster than you selecting 30 enemies and waiting another 30+ seconds for your animation to stop? Yes I can. Do i need to build up to do a massive amount of damage? No I do not. However Ash will. Straight out the door Ash is a kitten in high level areas.
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Then what? C'mon. What boosted with what does that 300k multitarget damage over 50m? Banshee? No way. Hydroid? Nah. Melee frames, now we're closer. Melee frames that can use the combo and survive the level range? Like 3. Ash, loki and maaaybe melee chrome (given he survives the recast)
we could also prolong that cl test to the reality of a normal game, we could try it with like 600-2000 enemys in a appropiate level range where finishing them one by one is really all you can do.
Think you'd stand a chance if i'm not adding a solid hour of intro?... i mean really? Is it that what you tell yourself?
Fact is that it's the exact middle ground between CL and AoE. Stronger then AoE, faster then CL and without requirements that force you to sacrifice something (how it is with CL, that forces you to sacrifice the stealth multipliers to it.)
It is not its fault that you don't like it, cause you obviously don't...to an extend where you appearently lost the grip to reality... BS slower then killing one by one? Frames doing 300k damage without problems... ???? Not one but ash can do that.
I really don't understand ANY of what you were on about.
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Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Then what? C'mon. What boosted with what does that 300k multitarget damage over 50m? Banshee? No way. Hydroid? Nah. Melee frames, now we're closer. Melee frames that can use the combo and survive the level range? Like 3. Ash, loki and maaaybe melee chrome (given he survives the recast)
we could also prolong that cl test to the reality of a normal game, we could try it with like 600-2000 enemys in a appropiate level range where finishing them one by one is really all you can do.
Think you'd stand a chance if i'm not adding a solid hour of intro?... i mean really? Is it that what you tell yourself?
Fact is that it's the exact middle ground between CL and AoE. Stronger then AoE, faster then CL and without requirements that force you to sacrifice something (how it is with CL, that forces you to sacrifice the stealth multipliers to it.)
It is not its fault that you don't like it, cause you obviously don't...to an extend where you appearently lost the grip to reality... BS slower then killing one by one? Frames doing 300k damage without problems... ???? Not one but ash can do that.
Why do you think you need 300k to kill ANY enemy? Most enemies can be killed in less then 20K while a select few take maybe 40K. You do not need 300K.
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25 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS
Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...
Blind and CL sliding attack. Any more questions?
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You keep saying that Ash kills faster at high level content but completely disreguard when I bring up Corrosive projection. Why? If we are, by you logic, using all available tools available to us Ash still does't kill faster at ANY level. Zero armor is Zero armor meaning enemies take the full hit of said damage. Ash does not have the highest consistant numbers so he would in fact kill MUCH slower.
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS
Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...
But I wasn't the one talking about CL just so you know. I said 4 frames with CP. I kill with an atterax with prime reach doing over 30k red crits. Why would I want to slow down my ability to kill using a crappy 4 hour long cut scene?
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Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS
Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...
yes 100%
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On top of that Octavia doesn't need CP to be MUCH better killer than Ash but I love how you keep avoiding this fact.
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Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
By that logic, any damage is worse then CL?
Boi will all the ember, equinox, banshee, excal, chroma players be dissapointed if i tell them.
Then again, they kill faster, like, much faster in low level content. And ash's bladestorm kills faster in any mid-high high level content.
Criteria for good design met.
No he does not. That is what I am telling you. EVERY frame can wipe ANY map with AoEs since you are going to include "all tools readily available" in this discussion which I didn't want to bring up BTW, but you seem to want to. CP on 4 frames and EVERYTHING DIES ANYWAYS. If you are going to run a high level anything if you are not running CP then you just suck. But as you said it is a tool available to all players and frames.
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I can mele down 30 enemies in about 4 - 6 seconds easily. Blade Storm takes about 5 seconds to mark 30 enemies. Then you have to sit through a "quick time" event for another 30 seconds since each attack takes about 1 second.
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Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Hm... killing 30 enemys one by one including targeting vs marking 30 enemys...
But ....we complain that Bladestorm is slow if i'm not misstaken?
Yes! How do you not understand how abilities are there to ENHANCE killing or ENHANCING survivability. If it isn't better than the tools we already possess, what is the point of them? You spend a resource to do something that improves something.
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OP is not a bad thing in a game like this. At anytime if someone has a problem with any frame they can simply leave and find a new game with new random people. However most of the time I get people asking me to tag along with them to help out. People LOVE OP players that aren't complete douches.
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Despite what you may think I don't see the game overrun with Octavias despite her being the BEST frame in the game right now.
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1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
So they totally addet level caps to the game.
The irony is that you're the fastest killer even in that content since every other frame eather requires perfectly set Cc squads or is too weak by numbers.
Wrong... Octavia beats Ash hands down. Kills hundreds of enemies while ash is still trying to build his mutiplier and she has no damage cap.
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:
Except he is outperformed by frames that cover the whole range from low level to endurance levels. Plus the fact he is a single target assassin in a Horde game, and that he has two single target assassinations. You call those "excellent design"?
There isn't content Ash stands out. Other frames can go as far as he can and do it much better than him, because he has no way to deal with crowds on his own. Blade Storm is probably the worst offensive "ultimate" right now. It has no CC, single target damage against hordes, ridiculous unjustified cost, slower than anything else at the player's disposal and weaker than all equipment due to the combination of stuff I mentioned already.
I 100% agree. You can kill one enemy with a massive overkill but then where does that leave you? If you Blade Storm 20 or so enemies you are WAY out of energy. Yet other frames still kill those 20 enemies and then some but only lose a fraction of down time casting and still having a mana pool to use.
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29 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
That's stuff it scales from so it is indeed part of ash. Part of bladestorm. It's the things he can build for, anyone has access to.
It doesn't fix it but it indeed justifys it. Or do you really believe that DE would add real aoe to the game that hits every single enemy for 300k finisher damage once the combo is wound up? naramon 2.0 doesn't reset the counter anymore. It makes it decay by 5 every 4+12(body count), 10(drifting contact), like 6(weak dispo rivens)seconds so it's a constant once it gets anywhere near that.
Step back for a second there and ask yourself if that's really something they'd do?... i mean you don't balance by basestats but by the absolute peak it can reach. Every change that isn't pure qol would mean a full rework that would ruin what it can do.
To what end? So he gets O.P. af and nerfed in a heartbeat? Becomes a weak clone of something else? So you can play ash instead of the frames you mentioned as a reference? Gtfo, just play them and let ash be. Seriously.
Doesn't fix either of the things I listed.
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
You do obviously. And boosting the multiplier hasn't been an issue ever since new naramon has been introduced. It gets stronger the longer the game goes with as much as a single combo mod. No max efficiency needet. I've been running streamline, rage (now hunter adrenaline) vit, steel fiber, P flow for as long as the rework has come to consoles and i have yet to suffer from any energy issue whatsoever.
That it doesn't really need a single typical frame mod to perform, be it range, strength or duration, makes building for management so goddarn easy on him that you gotta hate him with a passion to even consider this a problem really....
I mean have you even played him for a while? At all? How can you consider the cost an issue when it's that frickin easy to manage???
But you are taking something that has nothing to do with Ash and factoring that in. That is not an Ash thing. Doesn't fix the insane wind up. Doesn't fix the long cut scene. Damage is not everything. YOU brought up that topic and drug me into it. I almost fell for it but I got back on track.
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When i say DPS I do not mean in a 3 minute segment. I do not mean that Ash does not have some insane burst numbers. He does. No one is arguing that point.
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When the combo mele is pumped up yes you can push out some impressive numbers, (we all here agree) yes but unless you have MAX efficency you are not able to hit that consistantly (though that has nothing to do with the topic) and in practical multi-player play you are not keeping a 6X combo multiplier. So again I'd love to see your vids. You can't do it on the plains for sure, not consistantly. You are also referring to something that takes a massive amount of time to achieve and to be fair any mele character can kill LONG before the 6X mark and again the combo multiplier is not a unique thing to Ash. I can use my atterax and before I hit 4X everything is dead in one to two quick meles or one slide attack so I'm not sure why you are taking this back to damage when this was never a discussion about damage but practicality of multi marking. The damage on BS is just fine as it is. Not one person has asked for a damage buff that i have read.
What i have gathered is everyone has an issue with slowing down the pace to "3 mark" enemies.
Or
Watching a long cut scene.
That's it... so why is damage even being brought up? You keep trying to pull me into this rabbit hole but that is not why this thread is here.
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
The shown damage is a third of what it does per mark due to the slash proccs. On like 155% strength (typical seeking shuriken build) that's about 9300 finisher damage. With 3 marks 27,900 damage.
Add combo (up to x6) and you get to 167,400 finisher damage. Use a venka prime and you get to x9, what's 251,100 finisher damage per enemy, in a fragment of a second per enemy with even some attack speed (i run like p fury+strike these days and it's more then enough) while it's fully possible to play it with status weapons (zenistar, ignis) to set viral.
251,100 finisher damage, multitarget, on enemys with viral on them while you're able to shoot shurikens for days, thus support with armor drain, invisibility as defense and just oneshot most enemys with the x8 multiplier zenistar disc.
Just what?
Who of these frames can pull that off exactly?
That is not how BS works.
Each mark does exactly the damage it sates. if you put 3 marks on a target it does said damage 3 times.
Like I stated above
Octavia can EZ unlimited level enemies.
Also a single skill use in 3 mins is not high DPS no matter how much it does when you have ZERO energy to use it again. On paper that sounds huge but in practical use you cannot achieve those numbers. I'm sorry but you just can't. I'd love to see some of your personal Ash videos though.
2 Suggestions for Endgame
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I play this game BECAUES I can feel like a god in a game that when you first start off you fell like an angry kitten. Do you even remember how hard it was to start fresh out the door? No mods, No frames, and No focus. This game is tough. If you do not want to feel like a god in a game you have worked SO hard to achieve then simply play with starter weapons with no mods. Problem solved. Not one person is forcing you to A. Play with other people in a manner you do not agree with, and B. Forcing you to become a god as that status is reserved for people with the right gear/mods/frames.