TheLexiConArtist
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Posts posted by TheLexiConArtist
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8 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:
To double-check my understanding... what you are proposing is that Forma adds to the total polarities available to the weapon/Warframe, instead of the polarity available to the slot? For example, if you can have a max of 6 V polarities and 3 - polarities, it doesn't matter where you put them but you can only have that many at any given time. Thus, 8 copies of a given polarity is all you'll need for a weapon?
Essentially yes. At the absolute maximum point this becomes indistinguishable from OP's version of the suggestion (any slot : any polarity) but the different mechanisms streamline the storage required on DE's part and the actual process of polarising itself. However, 'special' slots can retain their unmixable property by using more or less OP's suggestion on an individual case (where the "X available polarities of type Y" for 'normal' slots saves some data load); this brings it up to 10 instances of each polarity (warframe aura+exilus) or 9 (melees, stance slot).
Let me post in my professional mockup of the UI as I suggested it:
Here you see an Ivara (that should have four Forma stars, not two - forgot to add those on) that has the following:
- Two unlocked Aura polarities (base Naramon and forma-unlocked Madurai) with the Naramon highlighted as in use.
- An unlocked Naramon Exilus polarity, unused as it currently holds a Madurai polarity mod.
- One unlocked polarity of each type excepting Unairu for regular mods (innate Naramon and Vazarin, Forma unlocked Zenurik and Madurai; no Unairu warframe mods exist yet), with the Zenurik slot currently not applied (1/1 available).
Our suggestions do remove the concept of extra drain for cross-polarity mod slotting but the question is whether that is really necessary to keep. Personally I don't forma much because I'd rather be fully flexible with 90% of theoretical maximisation than achieve that power peak but have no freedom to play around with builds without redoing a bunch of slots and wasting Forma, time and effort.
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1 minute ago, EmptyDevil said:
This would be an additional option. Not sure where you got the idea of this replacing the ability to switch polarity order from.
I want to keep things simple in this idea.
Given the likelihood of someone multi-polarising a single slot instead of just adding their first polarity to an unpolarised slot, having your 'extra option' polarities tied to a given slot isn't actually adding much flexibility besides saving the previous polarity that was on that slot they eventually added to. We're suggesting mostly the same things in the end, but our approaches just have that little key difference here and there.
The path of least resistance if you're going to add any 'overflow' to the concept of polarities (i.e. any information beyond the polarities in each slot Right Now) is to decouple them from the slots completely. I go over the data footprint in one of the replies on my thread there - essentially all that would be needed is a simple bitmask of a slot's current polarity (which is probably what DE already use in their overwriting paradigm at the moment) and a couple extra bytes to store the number of each polarity that has been 'earned'.
Your slot-coupled solution would require 'substantially' more load as each slot requires a record of available and currently used polarities. In reality it's a handful of bytes over storing it on the item itself (essentially, what I expect would be done for the un-mixable slots in mine is what would be present on every slot in yours), but adding 3-5 bytes of data per item per player versus adding 8-10 bytes per item per player can add up a lot faster.
18 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:Bad idea. It would remove the only part about using forma that requires a little planing and thought. "What polarities do I add in order to be able to use as many different builds as possible?"
Your idea would dumb that down to "just mindlessly forma all slots".
Are you happy to have to re-forma everything and waste that previous planning and thought just because a balance change or new mod required different polarities on your tight fit builds?
We want to enhance flexibility and remove unnecessary frustrations like these that can happen (Melee polarity preferences changing to account for Body Count and Blood Rush recently, for example). There's no power creep involved - the upper limit is the same, and if you want to "oh just forma all the slots with everything" for the absolute flexibility, you've thrown some 40+ forma at a single item. That much investment makes it fair to be at peak flexibility with all your builds, doesn't it? Especially with the need to level it up over again each time, Draco notwithstanding...
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As someone who had the luxury of owning the original Brakk before its heavy nerfing, I support reverting some of that to bring it more in line with other shootguns.
Going from the perfect all-rounder shottie secondary with totally even IPS and a nice tight spread to an impact-weighted, large spread and extra falloff was a criminal nerf beyond any other that I can think of, as far as weapons go.
And when we can leave the Tonkor obsoleting most things in the game, and other top-tier weapons as we have now.. well, the little beast deserves its bite back.
Even at the time of its original release, there was the issue of the good old Soma completely outstripping most other primaries (and definitely its counterparts like the Gorgon) no less so than the Brakk did to secondaries. But that didn't get nerfed either. No... it got a Prime version that was even stronger instead.
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So how exactly do you work this in with the ability for switching polarity order, as was given players to avoid weapon element combos being unreasonably restricted?
My earlier proposition adds all the flexiblities of your system while also retaining the freedom of ordering polarities. There's no good reason to strongly tie polarities that have been earned to individual slots at all any more.
Just tie polarities as number*type to the object itself.
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It makes sense when you line up things such as Stormbringer matching up with Naramon, but like you said in the second last section, the player base would be in an uproar that wouldn't be unheard for months to years due to the REforma-ing we would most likely have to go through. It's a good idea, and should most likely follow suit in the future mods, how ever; changing the current mods now would send many players to another game in my opinion.
Re-forma due to balance changes you say? Well, if you'll forgive a shameless plug, here's a reasonable and permanent solution to that.
Much less chance of riots due to "wasted" forma time/resources/effort when there's no sudden downside to what you invested in, would definitely mitigate a lot of the salt that woudl be brought with this sort of mass lore-based rebalancing.
(I'm not saying whether or not I agree with OP's classifications as they stand, as there's an obvious balance issue with spreading things over polarities e.g. "well I'll just polarise Zenurik for most of my frame slots and fit anything ever for a low investment", but if something like this were to happen a minor QOL reworking of polarities as a whole would go well with it)
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After some 40 runs of the boss fight (accounting for abandonments and completions of the non-endurance), I'm quite content with the consistency of my experience, so here's my observations:
Path to the Boss:
A penalty to being spotted is fair, but there should have been a grace period after releasing lockdown of 5-10 seconds where being spotted again would not reinstate the problem. It's possible to get practically trapped with some specific camera spawns and a lack of punchthrough if they trigger the lockdown in a separate room to where they are.
There were way too many Hyenas at once. The Pack as an actual boss fight has fewer spawning at once than I had to deal with when I wasn't just stealthing through the level. Issues hitting them with melee when Crowd Controlled due to being too low down.
Bursas:
Fighting Bursa units without CC is tough. Fighting Bursa units and four or five Hyenas without CC is nightmarish to impossible.
Bursas should trigger a loot drop when hacked; I went looking for rare mods on the non-endurance run a couple times (deliberately triggering cameras) and felt it broke game flow to have to stand around waiting for the Bursa to die, whether or not I hack it, to see if it dropped a mod.
Hacking Bursa units is practically suicide sometimes, unless stealthed.
Razorback Fight
Good:
Snipers being actual snipers, although they were relatively negligible in comparison to the rest of the mess going on around me.
More interaction-based fight than "put the pointy part in the moving thing until it stops moving".
Resupplying mechanic befitting of a potentially long fight (although less RNG would be nice. Sometimes the boxes just never want to drop energy orbs...)
Bad:
Teamplay was completely non-beneficial due to damage cap and very step-by-step process, and occasionally actively detrimental (nonstealth allies triggering stealth-seeking missiles).
Isolator Bursa routinely fails to aim at the Razorback thanks to its close-quarters preference; served better to not let it drop down and have it shotgun from the corner ledge while player holds the aggro and manipulates the position of the Razorback itself.
Bursas in general sometimes relegated themselves to 'defense' mode. Hacked AI behaviour should favour more reckless offense since they have a limited lifespan anyway.
Too many damage stages in Endurance. (Yes, yes, 'but it's endurance'.) The novelty and positive aspects of the fight design wear incredibly thin when you're repeating yourself 10 times per run.
The shotgun of laser orbs with instant Heat proc and oneshot-capable explosions at the end of their life is a little ridiculous.
Awful:
Being locked in hacking screens is completely at odds with any 'avoid or die' capable mechanic. If the Razorback happens to fire missiles just as you start hacking a Bursa close by (which is encouraged if not enforced due to the time limit before the unit destructs) completing the hack is a non-option, but similarly due to forced magnetic proc and the animation of "stepping away" from the panel before control returns, aborting is also a non-option. As Gene Wilder would say: You lose, good day sir.
Rockets that ignore stealth.. and frequently fail to render a smoke trail. You only get the audio cue, and by the time you hear it, you might as well be dead.
Rewards:
Cicero mods do not belong in the drop table of an event any more, with how readily availale they are through Corrupted Vor. These endurance 'rewards' are worthless compared to the non-endurance reward of 5 Rare-5 Fusion Cores.
My farming strategy:
Solo
Ivara
Zenurik Focus (to mitigate uncooperative supply boxes)
Begin mission.
Prowl to Razorback to avoid cameras, making judicious use of rolling.
Before triggering Razorback, bullet jump up to, and fire a Dashwire between, the Bursa Release hack-panels' ledges
Wield melee.
(prowling) Trigger fight.
Repeat steps until victory:
(prowling) Ascertain location of Bursa, ascertain type of Bursa.
(prowling) -If Denial/Drover, hack panel and allow to drop. Follow down and Sleep Arrow, then stab in the hack-panel, hack, and un-Prowl.
(prowling) -If Isolator, parkour to corner-room, Sleep Arrow, stab and hack, then un-Prowl.
Slide into view of Razorback to get its attention, while always blocking, guide it to remain in best line-of-sight of Bursa (but facing away from it) to be shot. Use pillars to avoid any missiles.
Bursa should pretty reliably knock Razorback down while you have it facing away.
Bullet jump to downed Razorback, firing Sleep Arrow on the way.
Stab in the head/legs until standing.
Bullet jump to prepared Dashwire, enter Prowl
Continue from first step.
Prowl to exit.
Collect Cicero mod.
Sigh.
Repeat.
I don't know why I just typed all that with 20 minutes left on the clock, but hey. Maybe some console user will save and make use of it when they get the tac alert.. or perhaps if Razorback is instated more permanently for us PC users...
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Bumping this for some midday attention.
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The problem is that Cicero mods are so utterly easy to acquire, even magnitudes more so than the other element/status mods, that they are literally an inferior reward compared to a single r5 core.
It's honestly a slap in the face at this point. When the reward from the first part of Divine Will is 5 r5 cores, and the reward from the difficult endurance version can be less than 1 r5 core, there's a real problem.
I'm not saying it should be 100% otherwise-unattainable event mod for every run, but at the very least stop using Cicero to pad drop tables.
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Too powerful as is.
If you are going to allow a system that allows this level of flexibility, the cost for doing do should be far more punishing.
Forma basically turns weapons into what MMO's would normally call "Artifacts". A few Forma make ANY weapon into a Star Chart trivializing wand you can just point into the general direction of enemies.
Honestly, a system that gives us Polarization flexibility only makes sense if the Star Chart and enemies get a MAJOR rework, so I'd rather wait to see what DE does with the new Star Chart first.
The cost of using Forma currently is punishing enough for Draco and its predecessors to exist. Remember that affinity farm is the symptom rather than the cause.
Whether or not things can become too powerful with the current system isn't really in question. Nothing about my suggestion increases the upper limit on player power. It's just the next logical quality of life step after being able to swap existing polarities between slots.
Really, the main draw I hoped would gain support for this is the fact that you don't have to worry about future balance changes or new mods. After you've spent so much time putting 6 forma onto something, wouldn't you feel cheated if you had to do it twice over again to alter something you've already put in the resources and time to earn the first time around, just because priorities changed? What if, arbitrary example, existing mods just so happened to have their polarities switched for consistency/balance/any other reason?
Zero power creep, low developer workload, fix some potential frustrations and wasted effort. Until the extreme ends of using this proposed system, it's nothing that couldn't exist already...and it might actually increase Forma usage (possibly purchases, even) since you'll never feel like you're 'locking yourself out' of anything by using it.
I can definitely say that I'd use forma on things more often if it was done this way. You never know when the next interesting mods are going to shake up builds.. Like the Shadow Debt mods in some cases.
Oh, and let's not forget they're looking to remove mandatory damage mods - all those Madurai polarised slots might not be so attractive when they do.
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Like you said doing this would probably destroy the servers I'm sure. My solution is far more simple. after changing the polarity of a slot, you re-lvl to max rank (exactly how it is now) but then, you can now switch polarties only on the one slot you changed (or however many slots you changed) but can do as many slots as you have forma'd without having to re-lvl Here's example to make this easier to understand:
put 1 forma on a slot that hasn't been forma'd: Re-lvl to 30
put 1 forma on a different slot: Re-lvl to 30
Then you decide you want those 2 slots to be something different then what you forma'd them to be: Simple click and change, doesn't reset weapon to unranked. (Note: This will only work on slots you have applied a forma to. Not slots on weapons that came with a certain polarity on them)
This idea will make basically make it so once you change 1 slots polarity and re-lvl 1 time, it can then be changed to any polarity without having to re-lvl again.
With regards to server load:
The basic idea would be low impact, in the order of a couple bytes per object; you could fit two mod-polarity counters per byte by splitting it into lower and upper 4 bits since you don't need more than values 0-15 each (0-8, but 9 rounded up to power of 2 requires 16), then a single byte per 'special' slot that has the available polarities as a bitmask.
A frame for example could take 1 byte for Aura, 1 byte for Exilus, and 3 bytes for mod slots (Madurai | Vazarin ; Naramon | Zenurik ; Unairu | nothing (theoretically for future mods, we don't have any Unairu mods except some stances)).
It's storing individual configurations for loadouts that magnifies the storage a bit; each slot would need its own bitmask to identify the polarity or lack of polarity (presumed current behaviour) which makes for 10 bytes per frame, but if different loadouts allowed different assigned polarities, that's tripled up to 30 which would become more strenuous applied to every item owned by every player.
Your alternative suggestion takes a little too much away from the current system, I think. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, I try to keep my suggestions as close to existing concepts as possible. The least amount of reworking is the most likely to be picked up as a casually applied improvement.
Still, two Forma per polarity in my proposed system is probably enough for all but the tightest mod drain usage, I think, at roughly the same number of applied forma as yours would take to have all slots accounted for. Not much wouldn't fit in a combination of twos or blanks, once you've got your potato and aura in accordance. Although my idea theoretically goes up to 8 + <number of special slots> forma per polarity, what's the likelihood you'll be fitting 8 Zenurik mods with enough drain to need every one polarised?
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("<concept> 2.0" is so blasé.)
I'm not big on throwing Forma at things, that I'll be the first to admit. I scoff at people who claim that 4+ formas are required to use anything in endgame content... but even from this relatively outside perspective I can see a caveat in the system.
Since we got Damage 2.0, due to elemental combination priorities, we gained the ability to rearrange polarisations we had put on our equipment - stopping us being restricted in which elements we could make the most of due to particularly unhelpful polarities and the Left-To-Right, Row-By-Row order we were given, plus native weapon elements taking up residency on a theoretical third 'row' to be the last in any order.
So, why not expand on this to avoid extra re-forma drudgery? Nobody would enjoy having to relevel their weapon due to a balance change or new mod(s) that drastically change polarity needs. Consider a weapon maximised for elements before access to Element+Status mods; all those Naramon slots you might have polarised might now be better served being Madurai instead.
My suggestion is essentially simple:
Decouple the act of polarising from slots entirely.
Instead, give the player's item a bank of earned (and native) polarities that they can use any, all or none of in their current slots. Possibly even manageable per item loadout, although that might introduce too much extra data weight for the server.
Special slots (Exilus, Stance, Aura) may or may not still be restricted from sharing the same bank of polarities as regular slots depending on DE's taste. I'll assume they would still be considered special, not interchangeable with permitted mod polarities.
Behold my expert photochopping skills:
As you can see from this slapdash example, my Ivara has:
• Two options for Aura polarity, freely switchable without using another Forma and re-levelling
• One Exilus polarity (unused, as it currently houses a Madurai polarity Drift mod)
• One Madurai, one Naramon, and one Vazarin mod polarity all in use
• One Zenurik mod polarity (unused).
Just.. imagine it had the accurate number of stars (4). I forgot to copy in new ones for the theoretical amount of forma that would have been used for the number of polarities available.
So yes, this would essentially remove the "Mismatching Polarity" penalty on mod drain as you could just opt to not use the wrong polarity available to you. But to that, I say well, my speed nova Prime build didn't need three native Madurai polarities anyway.
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Regarding the puncture mods 'staying in the game', please remember that they are not drops from the Razorback itself, but mission rewards. The Razorback mod drop table is completely absent anything worthwhile in its rares...since it's literally the Jackal's.
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Wouldn't be caught dead without them on most of my frames... Oh wait, yes I would. Much more frequently.
Sure, oneshotting will always exist, but you're increasing the threshold for oneshots - and increasing the effectiveness and the proc window of a sentinel's Guardian precept at all levels, for that matter - by slotting both.
Seeing how much health damage I take sometimes before Guardian finally activates makes me cringe, even though it's in the first Precept slot.
Unavoidable damage will be a thing in anything other than a dedicated CCing group. QT/Primed Flow gives you effective health, yes, but... well, I think I'd rather get to spend my energy on keeping my proverbial bacon saved, than venting it all in the process of saving said bacon in the first place.
Personal verdict:
Pubs and solo: all the time; Organised group: optional/replaceable.
Exceptions for things like Valkyr and Chroma aside, of course.
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All this gripe about toggled sprint reminds me that sprinting even exists, when I ask myself, who even sprints in the age of Parkour 2.0? Outside of Volt Speed or deliberately stacking sprint mods, there's rarely any faster movement than properly executing bullet-double-jump-roll chains.
I suppose that's the point of why everyone is using toggled sprint now. It just feels like an inconvenient button to press (although that could partially be down to my keyboard ergonomics), much less hold, but I don't really seem to be losing much. Even along a flat plane, slide-roll-slide-roll keeps up the brisk pace. Playstyle, I suppose.
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There have been so many times as Loki that I'll be invisible and go down while reviving because somebody else came over and started drawing fire.
It's not just that. The downed player still has a valid target for enemies to shoot at if they're using a Sentinel, which is probably responsible for more failed revivals than additional, more visible allies coming to 'help' is.
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No, by garbage I actually mean the animations are very poor.
Other weapons have a very smooth single empowered strike, but for Charge attacks of Daggers specifically, they have this stab first, followed by a weird Slash.
I don't want that second Slash, it is an animation lock that I can do without.
Just the Stab would be fine.
(Btw Charge attack is the E Hold Combo, which every weapon has now, so we might be talking about different things)
I'm talking about Butterfly Slash: Hold E250%+slash, Release
Not Cutting Arches: E, E, Hold E3x
(or the Pointed Wind equivalent hold-combo).
If you release and re-hold E at the right moment you can chain the regular charge attacks (Butterfly Slash) without having to do the first hit of a normal combo for every time after the first. Even has different animations on alternate executions to account for the different placement of the weapon.
The animation might be a bit janky, but it does hit twice if you aim it right, guaranteed Slash procs both times (plus any regular statuses being able to proc alongside it). With my general stabbing build not purpose built to just charge-attack, I can have a level 100 Ancient Healer bleeding out in 5-6 charge attacks depending on other status procs. It's not FOTM overpowered melee by any means, but it's not completely useless.
Sheev has a pretty high status rate with two or three element/status chance mods though, so getting many more hits in with regular combo tends to win out in speed no matter which stance is in use. Bleed stacking really adds up.
With the power creep from sword vs. nikana one-upmanship and the fact that no Daggers single or dual have crit chances over 10% to make use of Naramon passives and Blood Rush either, the viability is still limited at best. Block less, damage less, shorter range... Covert Lethality and bleed stacking with the Sheev or stance auto-procs are all that keeps the weapon class afloat at all really.
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Literally resorted to standing well out of the way of everything and everybody on the map and supporting my team with Navigator'd arrows from Quiver after getting dropped one too many times by the "LET'S BRING UNCONTROLLED AOE TO RADIATION SORTIE YEAH!!" geniuses I ended up with.
Radiation procs are just cheap sometimes.
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yesterday there was a MR 20 running a penta and after I revived them 7 times in a short period I said bro please use your powers or melee or something else since the constant reviving is going to result in the pod dying from folks reviving a team burden instead of hey!! killing enemies.
Bro got salty so I did not revive anymore especially when I had a look at in mission kills and the bro was at 34 versus the rest of the teams 195, 85 and 155
I didn't test with the Penta, but yes - those are the disproportionate risks currently involved. Full mod scaling, even from a lower base value, gets the damage to instakill levels too fast. Altering the mechanic to be a % resistance would cause far fewer of those instant self-inflicted deaths - unless the person in question was deliberately creating a full nest of Penta 'nades and lying down on them before triggering.
But I still want something there that feels like you've made a device capable of truly massive explosions.
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Daggers still lack flavour, charge attacks are utterly garbage, both have 2,300 Wall attack for some reason, and slide attacks are pretty ok, but nothing special.
Charge attacks aren't bad if you build for them and chain the charging part right, using Homing Fang.
Guaranteed Slash procs and 250% damage strikes if the wiki is to be believed, combined with modding for the best base damage possible (Spoiled Strike included since you're not quite as concerned by lacking attack speed for cycling the combo faster) can add up to some pretty good bleeding.
I don't use a focused charge-attack build myself but I use them at times, they do have merit. Particularly because you stay in place a lot more doing charge attacks than you do in the process of the regular HF combos.
Sheev is my single most used weapon, and not just because of Covert Lethality (it helps though. More damage and free kills never hurts). I can fill it out without even using an extra Forma to swap to Homing Fang's polarity, until I get Primed Fury (stacking MORE bleeds! YES).
Sure would be nice if using Buzz Kill to strongly buff Slash damage actually had an effect on Slash proc damage values, though. Same for Fanged Fusillade and my Dread bleeds.
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Please find me one place where Ivara uses an exponential calculation in her abilities.
Prowl does not need changes. It could perhaps use an augment, but the base ability is fine as is.
Navigator exponentially drains more energy the longer you have a projectile out. Which is not often because it's moderately clunky and could benefit from some QOL and tweaks. (I'd like to see alt-fire toggle a slower speed than 'neutral' to give us three speeds for easier tight navigation; non-exponential energy drain because you can't move or be EV'd energy while you're using it anyway, and possibly have negative duration increase multiplier gain to bring more build-synergy with Quiver and Prowl, albeit at the cost of some statistical self-synergy with Transient Fort and Fleeting Ex.)
Prowl has too many invisible side effects in my opinion. Stealing is affected by negative power strength (no idea if positive strength improves anything). Four different calculations on energy drain (standing, moving, melee, damaged) of which only one is readable in the ability list so we can see how (if at all) they are affected by duration/efficiency stats.
Also, Arc Traps and indirect damage (dots, Venom Eximus aura) cause energy to disappear way too quickly. Walk in front of an Arc Trap without running Flow and you lose all your energy well before the Trap self-destructs, and they detect you in stealth just fine. That's just frustrating. I'd much prefer direct damage only and/or a cap on hits-per-second that can cause the additional energy drain. Or remove it entirely as unneeded complexity.
OP;
I can agree with Noise Arrows being near-useless (even for stealth runs since they often cause breaking of multiplier through 'suspicion' level alerting the affected enemies) but your other assertations and definitely most of your suggestions are weak at best. I'm one of the most high supporting/utility members in most pub squads I join up with. Sortie Medic Ivara keeps most squads functioning instead of failing all over the place.
Cloak autoattaching to allies sounds useful, except when you want to actually keep the field in place, which is.. most of the time. I don't have much of an issue with being shot in my cloak field (though it helps that I have 250% range and the freedom to move a bit) except when allies dance in and out at the edges, which is just as much a problem for Prowl and other invis frames when squadmates try to deliberately or accidentally use your invisible frame as meatshield.
Dashwires.. can be finicky, and the fact DoubleBulletJumpRoll is faster than traversing across them limits their actual use, but having an extra platform almost wherever you want has its uses. QOL improvements for making the lines at best, avoiding massive wastes of energy from failed attempts.
Noise arrow.. do anything, I only use it by accident.
Sleep Arrow is excellent, and running with a Covert Lethality Dagger makes for a great surgical strike capability for removing any-level, augmented-defenses enemies from your path. As long as they're finisher-enabled and they 'sleep' into the relevant state. It's overshadowed a bit by Global Blind Mirage but so is almost everything these days.
Navigator needs self-stealth in flight because you lost control of your player vulnerability (frame hitbox). The stealth lets you not die every time you cast Navigator because a single enemy happened to spawn nearby and come to teabag you while you can't see them.
Prowl could use improvements as I mentioned in the above reply to the quoted poster, but your suggestion only makes sense in the context of your questionable desire to make Cloak bubbles constantly attach to anything in the general vicinity. I don't know how many times I get put into an awkward spot because I accidentally attached the bubble to something other than the floor. Keep Prowl's functionality, but ease up on some of the 500 restrictions involved at the moment.
Artemis Bow's instant Quiver shots are valuable to me, if it had quick-melee enabled that's pretty much all I'd use. My overextended build for maximum Cloaking and Sleeping makes the actual AB shots lacklustre, but being able to more smoothly execute the Sleep and Covert-Lethality-Finish combo would be fine for me. Making its charge something else entirely as has been suggested many times elsewhere would be okay, or to just make the horizontal/vertical two separate states without that weird x-degree angle shot between them. Charged y/n == horizontal y/n.
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For some reason I thought the Tonkor shot two grenades naturally. I don't use it because it's too cheap for my tastes. Some stuff I said earlier is rendered null and void by me realising otherwise.
You point is null because Tonkor does more damage than Ogris. So, Ogris should have even lower than 50 self-damage, by that rule. It's obvious that the self-damage in Tonkor's case it's not base damage related. It's just there as a specific chosen value.Tonkor does 325 base blast damage (and 75 puncture damage on direct hits). Ogris does 650 base blast damage. What? Crits are irrelevant since I was speaking in base damage terms before any modifiers, critting or modding alike.
(Saying it should do 200x2 for full base selfdamage was an oversight on my random misconception of firing double 'nades without Split Chamber. 400 or at least 325 would be its base if you increased Ogris to 650 from the current 150. Likewise a proportionate 92 assumes the 75 puncture is taken into account, whereas it would be 75 base selfdamage proportioned from the blast damage alone)
I don't like the approach of simply slapping on a damage reduction and leaving all the mechanics in place. Random chance to status yourself or crit yourself doesn't serve any purpose in giving it clear decision points in gameplay.If it needs to scale off the mods (I honestly don't get why because most of the time we're using it with mods) then it should do an amount of damage that is reasonable. If it's going to do some sort of CC or status effect to the user, it should always do it and be independent of the status chance of the weapon or the damage types modded to it. The decision points when playing with the weapon should be clear and consistent.
Well, I did include a comment in there about self-proccing being investigated. Good thing magnetic is a suboptimal damage type to mod into so we don't generally risk proccing that mess on ourselves.
The risk of selfproccing high DOTs, selfdamage bypassing shields and particularly debilitating statuses like Viral and Magnetic would support stripping modded damage types and status chance in favour of a static stagger/knockdown like you suggested, and even a Damage Resistance modifier being also coupled with a fixing of the self infliction damage type to something physical as a balance point.
I don't know about you, but if I don't risk severely wounding myself by shooting explosives at point blank range like a complete pillock, then I don't feel like I'm using a
Scaling up from base damage with mods lets someone get used to blast radii and the weapon in general with negligible self damage while the weapon is unranked and unmodded, then take it out with bigger reward and proportionally bigger risk once they feel more comfortable.
Just not so much risk that you're killing yourself with a slight mistake before you've even got the weapon near maximum potential; hence the percentile resistance to slow the amplification of the damage you're dealing to yourself to something you can take a bit better.
I also did suggest the possibility of an upper limit if it gets too ridiculous, I don't know. That's for a balance team to decide, but the discrepancy between "no scaling" and "100% scaling" seems like there could be a nice middle ground that keeps the feeling.
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Just make them all non scaling, like tonkor. Tonkor always does 50, ogris should always do 650. Also, ogris needs a massive damage buff.
Funny thing with ogris, modded with status and adhesive blast it will stick a rocket to enemy and proc like mad for a few seconds. Then explode, while enemy has been corroded several times for example. I'd like to use it more, but it's only 10-12K damage, assuming you'd use basic fire rate increase and status buffs.
I don't get the reasoning with the 650 damage. After all, Tonkor doesn't have only 50 base damage.
As I outlined above, the Ogris does a base 150 (but fully mod-scaling) self damage currently; Tonkor would do approximately 92 at the same ratio.
Or you increase the Tonkor selfdamage to 400 (or 200x2) if you're going to make the Ogris' 650, both nonscaling beyond that (besides multishot?).
Still think you're removing some of the point of launchers if you do this though. Big damage from a big weapon should be felt, even if it's by you because you shot it too close. Just throttle things down to a reasonable point instead of going from 0 to instakill (or 0 to 0 in the current Tonkor case).
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I earn my Prime Warframes the legitimate way.
I don't want to have to farm my Prime Warframes and another instance of the base frame every time. The sheer increase in construction time alone! No, I'm not waiting a week or more for my frame after I already went to all the trouble of getting it hot off the proverbial presses.
(besides, screw getting Ash Prime with your proposed system. I still haven't even had a chance to own the basic Ash for mastery's sake yet, since Manics spawn once a year and never drop the part I need)
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I would also like to see a mod added that allows sentinels to join in our abilities, specifically the defensive ones. I know that when loki cloaks, the sentinels goes invis also, and I read that when you enter rift walk, your sentinel joins you, but I want to be able to put iron skin on my sentinel, or link. Kubrows jm not concerned with, they have their mods that make them tanky and you can also revive them. Sentinels are so squishy they need some help for survivability.
For the love of Lotus can we at least get Rolling Damage Resistance applied to sentinels as well as ourselves. Mitigating Bombards, Napalms and the like is all well and good, except your sentinel still took the full damage and only has two health bars it can go through in a mission with that single-use Regen mod.
I'd also like to see protection given to it when we're downed as well, since we can't exactly do much to help the sitting duck from losing one or both of its lives while we wait for a revive. At least Kubrows can move around while they fight back, and they get a standard bleedout timer you can make use of after you get back up.
Basically, the moment a player first said "Don't revive me, I need my sentinel back" changes should have been made.
Tonkor and self damage
in Weapons
Posted
Self damage is part of the explosive ordnance fantasy.
If I don't risk blowing myself up, I'm not using a rocket launcher.
That said, self-damage ramping up fully with mods on all other-such weapons, even though it starts at a smaller base, gets to the point of instant self-death far too quickly. And you can crit yourself. On the Ogris' 5% chance. That's a bit shoddy.
Improve personal resistance against self-damage from explosives (procs, damage ramp) but keep it relevant. Don't make lying down on a bed of your own Penta grenades an ignorable mistake.