Ziser
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Posts posted by Ziser
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On 2019-05-11 at 7:25 PM, Gamma745 said:
You mean, last mission of Octavia Anthem?
I somewhat forgot about that quest part, will have to replay it, something like that but harder and add more intersting enemies to it.
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2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:
Well thats the trick - creating balance between content that most players can do and also catering to those who have achieved high levels of OP-ness.
DE realise they screwed up by enabling players to achieve these levels of power...and since that can't be undone (without serious backlash from the community) they need to figure out some news ways of providing uber-high level content. They've said they are looking into this...but since it will likely require some fundamental re-works, new mechanics or suchlike, it could be a while before it becomes a reality.
As with most major game updates, a fair amount of patience will probably be required.
Add challanging missions requiring high affinity for bulletjumping and movment in air, momentum stacking, reflexes, aim and quick decision making rather than dependant on your gear with massivly punishing returns when you fail. Watch the majority of players tear their hair because its too hard when they in reality just do not want to even try to improve or put effort in the gameplay at all.
Sometimes you just have to bite the apple and balance the existing gear even when you get flamed for it. Not doing it at all is rather weak imo. Youre right that the game needs some major re-vamps and new mechanics to improve the game.
I remember when DE wasnt a business foremost, looks like they are leaning to become that though.
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3 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:
How, in this same post, do you both claim "THIS WILL BE THE END OF THE GAME'S SUCCESS!" but at the same time you claim "doing this is good for business, though..."
Stop with the doomsday prophecies. "Casuals" are not bad for the game...they often help keep the game funded. DE is a business first and has been doing fine, and even improving, for 6 years now. Warframe is not going to suddenly die just because you can kill a boss with your op guns. Chill.Casuals wont kill the game, only catering to casuals will kill the quality of the game, does not mean casuals will stop playing it so idk why you call it doomsdaying. EA done this for years and look at their games today, i dont think DE will ever fall even close to them but right now it does not look like they plan to listen to more experienced or skilled players that been around for years asking for challanges at all. You turn your back on those players and they eventually leave, what you got left is the casuals and new players so naturally you dont have to make challanging content since theres no one asking for it anymore. Imo thats when a games quality truly dies. My opinion of what games should be ofc is diffrent to others but i remember games having hard and experience/skill requiring challanges that felt really nice completing. You can have content for all kinds of players in the game but the issue is that the players that dont want to even try improve are whining that content thats supposed to be challanging is too hard, those type of players are usually the casual type of players.
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6 hours ago, Facadedestroyer said:
and theres no lore, you know that very well, they make sht on the go, and resently they're just releasing primes every 3 months with no trailers and no lore at all, even normal weapons are getting added without any lore, they just add them.
Id like to point out that theres lore however its not relevant to gameplay, its there for those that enjoy it and it also requires you to search for it and put pieces together to understand it, it is just not spoonfed to you like usually seen in games.
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On 2019-05-08 at 12:55 PM, George_PPS said:
MR27 here with good builds and loadouts for all missions.
I found current balance of enemies levels proper and enjoyable. If the hardest contents are designed for only top players’ meta gears, 99% won’t be enjoying the game. It actually feels good for me to play with any players and help each others out. And if I want more challenging contents, I stay longer in missions or find less experienced players to do harder missions.
MR27 who played since near start of game here and seen how it evolved based on what new type of players joined the game. I also played a large selection of other games in same genre and multiply others. I also explored most of the metas and other builds and gear combos the game has to offer and can safely say that anyone claiming that having to stay for longer periods of time in a mission for it to FINALLY reach a acceptable diffculty loses their credability in the matter.
Quote aside, the game needs clear challanging content that truly tests your skills and give you merit for it, you can argue how much you want against it but looking back at games this is what made a game a Game. Adding content thats only doable using metagear is a bad idea and no real challange seeking player asked for this, you just asumed it like that. Theres a large portion of players who have skills outside that of gear knowledge such as good aim, reflexes, movment interested players, puzzle lovers and more, yet we have little to no challanges adressing these. I aknowledge that any content might not be doable by all players but we are all humans and humans are good at improving when they want.
This game has absolutely NO challanging content whatsoever from the point of view of an experienced player, even less so for one with a lot of skills to back their experience up too. As original post stated (which is also true whatever you like it or not) the game is catering to more casual players and since their mindset is "All content should be playable by everyone" it is KILLING any chances of adding new actuall challanging content simply because casual players wont be able to do that content. They dont want to improve or are too lazy in order to do said content and will even complain about said content. This is harmfull for the games quality growth and will have all your non-casual players eventually leave. However out of a business view this is ideal because these types of casual players loves to pay for shortcuts, EA has been abusing this fact for a while and thus their games lost their quality entirely, that is fact.
Not wanting to improve or even try because it looks too tedious is never an excuse to lower the requirments for something, we call those people bums in the working society.
Shoot for the starts and dont let anyone stop you.
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12 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:
Thats why we're waiting for Ziser to enlighten us 🙂
>:V
Enemy AI isnt ideal in this game right now but from a coders point of view fixing it to a better state is a long nightmare. Damage, enemy resistances and scaling have been adressed and if i recall right Steve is brainstorming to first fix the damage issues. The current AI is working and the issue is the enemies and their mechanics themself, as original post pointed out some of the suggestions already exist but isnt always visable since enemies simply do not have the time before getting killed to find a pathing in the enviroment to for example find cover or flank and surround the player without looking wierd or jump 50 feet onto a platform behind you. If i recall right there was an issue with enemy pathing making enemies do very wierd movment to find cover or flank in the past.
We could add more mechanic-heavy enemies with as suggested flash nades, engineers, hazmat suits and alike, Nox is a good example, hes a pure bulletsponge if you dont hit the weak spot on him, current machinegunners are somewhat good since they dont deal too much damage but have knockdowns on closer players and are quite slow with a large hitbox, same goes for bombards though i wish the missiles they launch would be somewhat more visable and generate more sound to help locate and take action against them.
I made a point about mechanic heavy enemies in another thread.
"Theres multiply ways to add challanging content, example as simple as introducing enemies with damage reduction and gating values that have modified resistance to lets say stuns and CCs, example Embers 2 which stuns enemies would be a stagger on said enemy instead and gives the enemy a short immunity to getting staggared again for a short time. Add massivly punishing attacks to the enemy that can be interupted with CCs where them being in a staggered, knockdowned or other forms of CCd state have a lot less damage reduction, the attacks could have interesting patterns that could allow players who experienced them find ways to dodge them instead while focusing on dealing damage, lets say the enemy takes more damage while casting these attacks. It adds fun and interesting enemies that can pose a challange to players and make CC frames relevant too."
Wolf could use this treatment, would make him a whole lot more interesting to fight imo.
For the original post Chuck have displayed most of what one could say, the suggestions arent bad outside of a diffculty view or for pushing more challanging content but they recruire more detail that whats provided. Flash grenades for example would be devastating but would need a indication that one has been thrown and generall area it will cause its effect in, a random unseen flashnade apearing from nowhere to flash you for 2 sec will spell doom right away. Airburst nade sounds like a fun concept to bring down bulletjumping ninjas but 50% accuracy for them at lvl 20 and 100% at 30+ (lvl 35 is hoplessly low level for an enemy from any experienced players view), they would also need the indicator treatment, showing telegraphs or icons where when they are thrown, where from and area they will impact. Not all players can act on such small indications in the chaos at all times, need clear indications when more impacting attacks are being used against you.
Also note that any improvments to AI will also be seen as the opposite to some players, im all for more annoying mechanics to enemies to give you a challange but we all know there will be those that see this as "tedious" and a waste of time. Some people just want reward without having to fight for it.
DE atm does not seam to want to improve existing content or fix present issues but instead push more new content, nor do they listen to feedback as much as we like so all we can do for now is wait and hope our feedback comes through eventually.
Chuckles i didnt want to do this, next time we doing a radiation hazard sortie im shooting you.
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On 2019-05-09 at 7:39 AM, (PS4)dropnation40 said:
thats not really what i mean't by endgame...
Thats literally content that fits the definition of endgame, your personal view and opinion of what endgame is might not fit the actual definition of what endgame is. Do some search on what endgame in gaming terms is.
Lets get it right next time =D
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On 2019-05-09 at 8:56 AM, Ced23Ric said:
As long as DE doesn't understand that augments need to go into an augment slot and mobility mods need to go into a mobility slot, these won't see use beyond the two contrarian jokers that try to argue that -80% aimglide zoom can compete with adaptive 90% damage reduction for 20s. Get out of town. Alternatively, DE needs to get rid of the mandatory mods - Serration, Pressure Point, Point Blank, etc. As long as every weapon needs to tick the basic boxes to perform at or around peak, nonessential mods will be sacrificed. Always.
Warframe would need:1x Aura Slot
1x Exilus Slot
2x Mobility Slot
8x General SlotDont forget the 1x Peculiar slot and 2x augment slots, removing the mandatory mods, give wepaons same treatment
4x Damage slots 2x Elemental slots 2x Critical slots and 8x Generall slots.
I got a fun idea while typing this, unrelated to topic but imagine if they gave weapons a modslot alike stance mods on melees that altered weapons firemodes and gave then unique alt fires for the weapon, say theres 2 ~ 4 of these for every weapon and some universal ones. I can see this making a lot of uninteresting wepaons interesting.
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Just now, Illithar said:
I can already hear what my brother would say to this word for word.
"HERESY!?! IT CANT BE HERESY, RHINO IS GOD HIMSELF"
*Yeets off in the distance with 2.06 sprint speed modifier*
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Just now, Facadedestroyer said:
they're already there dude, but they refuse to take the stance that MR have anything to do with your skills in this game with is not even what we're discussing with them, and dont worry, i know how this game works from top to the bottom, ive seen it all and i know exactly where this game is going ever since that cursed chinise company get hold of those ''indie devs''.
if you've been playing this game for over a year and you still stuck at mr 16 then i am sorry but you're not playing warframe, not that often anyway.
I guess, maybe they are. My brother played since 2013 too, still playes then and then, hes mr16 and ironicly quite experienced due to having me spoonfeeding him everything he needs to know, hes also got a high affinity for learning new things and act on it. Now if i somehow can get him to play anything else than rhino.
*Looks at 41% played on Rhino Prime and 39% on Rhino*
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3 minutes ago, Illithar said:
Im glad you like it =D
Bonus points if you actually read everything!
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4 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:
hes already there from the look of it.
Noone of the 2 players i mainly argues with are at my level of experience, skill, time investment or will to put effort in the game. If they get there they will most likely understand what i mean. This makes me sound like an elitist but if we compare this to being a Car mechanic then im literally the old master who worked for years and loved every moment of it and have a ton of experience and skill while they are the newer mechanic thinking they know more.
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1 hour ago, Voltage said:
This is a really tricky subject. Many players want "content", but old games had feelings of achievement and progression over time. It seems a trend I notice is people just want "stuff". I am not saying the Darth Vader EA thing was justified at all. That was a horrid marketing scheme. However, wanting content in a game like Warframe while also complaining drop chances are too low and things take too long to get is just backwards...
This is a perfect post, dont like saying this but theres a lot of players out there that maybe shouldent gotten into games like warframe in generall.
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SIGH
21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:MR doesnt matter. Actual time spent playing matters.
You can rush MR and know squat about the game.
You outright stated that MR doesnt matter at all.
On 2019-05-06 at 4:47 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:MR is a poor metric of experience or knowledge. It doesn't even directly measure how many weapons a person has levelled.
At this point i have to asume you share that opinion.
We discussed this back and forth for too long, i feel like im speaking to a brick wall. Im tired alright. I have to understand that noone of you are probebly on the same level of time investment, experience or interest to put effort into the game as i am. I have gived good argument for why MR matters when looking for experienced players and SneakyErvis neglected any argument with replies based on his opinion with no attempt to look at any of this from an outside view thus lost his credability entirely. Guzmantt have atleast understood the arguments but i have not even noticed up untill now that youre playing warframe on ps4 and i been told by a friend that the players on the psn and pc are widely diffrent. I can asure you that what i been arguing for is how it is on pc, i never played warframe on PS4. Im not even sure if warframe players on PS4 commit to the game on the same level.
From a view of somone who takes efficiency with pre-made groups on a more serious level will generally look for higher MR players when recruiting for a reason i have already explained time and again, this ultimately leads "MR does matter". This is very hard to see from a casual players view though.
At this moment i dont feel like throwing same arguments worded diffrently has any point, im dropping it, i dont see any use in this anymore. I do hope you dont change your mind when youre in my position sometime if you ever get there.
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27 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:
the High MR25 have more experience than the MR16 even with same amount of time played and here is my reasoning behind my answer:
it does not take you months to level up a freaking mystery fodder, DE release weapons blueprints to the market or the clan research and all of that will not take you more than a freaking 5mn to grab and build providing the amount of 1000h you have in the game you should be swimming in resources, the only problem is if DE hided that mastery fodder behind a time gate and even then you're not missing much because you will not stop playing until you pass that time wall, no sir.
you both must be having and ''end game'' gear with that 1000h gameplay, both of you can do any high end content no problem at that point but the high mr have the edge over you because he most likely have gears that you consider fodder that the devs turned into god tier over night and you will be needing to get that sucker and level him and forma him and potato him will the high mr is having a drink and enjoying his time playing barbie and messing around with people game with limbo max range and duration stasis.
i dont need your common sense, ill debunk you with facts and numbers and logic.
and let me ask you like you asked me:
who have better chance to form groups or find groups that need specific gears for a new found meta ? the high mr who have everything or the low mr who spent his life with boltor prime ?
You make a very good point. I have also forgot to mention that its not like you just generate wepaons, you also have to farm and gather the required materials and then craft them which takes time, you dont just generate materials from thing air. Anyone who likes the game enough will actually play during that time too so higher MR players do in fact end up having more experience. Anyone who cant see or understand this is in fact a low MR player themself or somone with an even worse memory than me.
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34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:
I'll answer for the Eidolon hunts. First I check choice of frames, then complete loadouts, then I may revert to MR until I get a chance to see their gameplay.
34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:then I may revert to MR until I get a chance to see their gameplay.
34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:revert to MR
You clearly shown that MR does in fact matter, no taking it back. Gratz on getting the 3 first things to look at right.
34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:I counter your thought experiment with an actual case:
I have played for over a year. I am MR16. I probably have enough mastery points to be MR 20+. I don't see much point in ranking up, as I don't usually max out all of my standings in a day, and I am not otherwise locked out of any content by my current MR.
Are you contending that if I spend the rest of the week only doing MR tests that I would be significantly more experienced than I am right now because my MR would have gone up by 4 points? It's obvious that I would not be so there's no reason to accept that MR has any meaning other than "this person has done several more tests than that one".
Obviously youre not one of those players, we already stated that it does not apply to all players, gratz i guess?
34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:I counter your thought experiment with an actual case:
I have played for over a year. I am MR16. I probably have enough mastery points to be MR 20+. I don't see much point in ranking up, as I don't usually max out all of my standings in a day, and I am not otherwise locked out of any content by my current MR.
Are you contending that if I spend the rest of the week only doing MR tests that I would be significantly more experienced than I am right now because my MR would have gone up by 4 points? It's obvious that I would not be so there's no reason to accept that MR has any meaning other than "this person has done several more tests than that one".
I played since 2013, came back and went away again, can say i played for 6 years. Up untill last year a little time before Plains update i was at MR18ish and decided to get max available MR at the time, think it was MR25. Can in a sense say im just like you, i literally just didnt care about raising MR. This is also besides the point because you and i are 2 players among millions so it proves near nothing.
1 hour ago, Ziser said:Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.
You dont have time to rank players on gameplay at this point, recruiting is a hit and miss system, you either get complete jackasses or players that do what they are supposed to. As you said, you look at MR since its a clear indication they atleast have the gear, you look at their loadout when they join, if they already in requested gear then thats a goodwill indication that they are in fact experienced, you look if they make additional remarks in chat for build tweaking and/or if they think themself play other roles to reduce time finding specific players for the roles. Its still a hit and miss because that MR26 who joined with the right loadout but didnt say much could in fact never have done a Plauge Star run in his entire life even though you stated you want experienced players but the chances that he has done the mission and the farm before and is experienced is indeed a lot higher when hes a higher MR.
I have 200+ Hydro caps, i claim that me and a clanmate where among the first non-omegatryhards that got to 100 hydro caps, we recruited random players most of the time for the last two spots while grinding. I can admit that i taken lower MR players too after giving them chances and sometimes it worked out and sometimes now but i do not remember more than single digit encounters with inexperienced high MR players. Pushing for 200 caps i was not as strict with high MR vs low MR since i did not go for speed anymore and i can confirm that i had a lot more trouble having to teach lower MR players the ropes. This is but one example using Eidolons which is a bit extreme but i can relate this with other grinds too.
Can we agree MR does infact matter for the discussion at hand regardles if we like it or not?
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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:
Depends on the mission. The only two placed I'd even look at MR would be eidolon and PT, MR10+ and 5+ in order to have access to the weapons needed to beat them.
For the rest it just comes down to frames and weapons, so MR isnt really an issue.
*EATING MY #*!%ING KEYBOARD*
1 hour ago, Ziser said:Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.
Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?
You completely ignored this part, you cant put yourself in others views and instantly go back to your own comfort zone. Im dropping this since youre literally ignorant or too based on your own opinions. Now im going to throw words i know you wont like around and at this point i will have a hard time taking anything you say serious. youre a casual player so im not even sure why youre argumenting over this when you clearly do not care over the point of just wanting others to correct themself to your opinion without taking all considerations into mind. I cant take you serious in this particular part of the discussion anymore.
I hope you have a good day man and that you dont fall too far when you relize what we actually try to explain here.
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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:
Like most of the people taking part in this thread, I have read and have understood. Like many of the people taking part in this thread I don't agree with you. That's a thing that happens.
You even admit that people can have high MR and not know as much as a person of lower MR. That means that you know that MR does NOT equate to actual experience. Your contention is that higher MR players are less likely to be as incompetent as lower MR players, but even that acknowledges that it is not an absolute relationship. This is what the people you're trying to argue with have contended all along.
But maybe you should go back and read what everyone has said, and avoid making any more oopsies?
So all in all MR does not matter for actuall experience.
16 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:MR doesnt matter. Actual time spent playing matters.
You can rush MR and know squat about the game.
So MR does not matter, only playtime.
2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:2) A number of high MR players with years of play time, were unable to grasp why they were experiencing difficulties, and showed the inability to understand why they were having difficulty.
Wanna run the numbers on how many more lower MRs where experiencing this exact thing?^That was an actual oopsie, apologise for that.
Now for the actual point i was refering my MR arguments too.
On 2019-05-06 at 5:16 PM, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:Now for the actual point, I'd rather take my chance with MR20+ because I'll have a 92% chance that the person will already know what to do perfectly without me even checking his profile.
^This
Lets play a game instead.
Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.
Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?
The first 3 things.
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:
And again, what the two of you contended was wrong three pages back and remain wrong. The post you just quoted shows why MR is a meaningless metric.
Let's be honest here for a minute shall we? If you have access to substantial plat reserves, and an active clan, it becomes trivial to load a brand new account with level 0 gear and power level all of it passively by leeching, with items not being used by that player at all. We can show them how to cheese the vast majority of the tests and provide them with the mods and specific builds to do so.
The instant we acknowledge that that's possible, we must accept that MR is meaningless. We use it to guess if a person is likely to know what end of the weapons to point toward the enemies, but it isn't an indication that the weapons are carrying good builds, or that the person realises what elemental combos will work best for the mission.
Again, the wolf, who is a current example of an enemy with enough health to make using the correct damage types important to people who face him, is showing exactly how much hubris there is, with multi-year vets with high MR failing to grasp why their builds are poor choices. The fact that I've seen repeated examples of that over the past few weeks, shows me that MR is a totally worthless metric, especially since it's one of the things that they point to, in order to convince people that they obviously know what they're doing. Except that they obviously don't.
Asuming all players are like that now are we? Sadly they are a plauging majority of the game yes. Again you have not read and considered why we are saying that mr matters and why, please do read. I'll count this an another oopsie.
The Wolf is a good idea executed poorly, heres a text of a post i made earlier:
"Theres multiply ways to add challanging content, example as simple as introducing enemies with damage reduction and gating values that have modified resistance to lets say stuns and CCs, example Embers 2 which stuns enemies would be a stagger on said enemy instead and gives the enemy a short immunity to getting staggared again for a short time. Add massivly punishing attacks to the enemy that can be interupted with CCs where them being in a staggered, knockdowned or other forms of CCd state have a lot less damage reduction, the attacks could have interesting patterns that could allow players who experienced them find ways to dodge them instead while focusing on dealing damage, lets say the enemy takes more damage while casting these attacks. It adds fun and interesting enemies that can pose a challange to players and make CC frames relevant too."
The Wolf is almost that but without the important parts, I can agree i seen more higher mr players frustated with the wolf because it forces them out of their comfort zones and thats a good thing but wolf himself isnt good enough, he is a opener for further improvment though.
I hate to repeat myself but here goes.
Read reacent posts made by Chuckles and me and consider them logicly outside your own opinions.
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Made a point of this in another post.
"Theres multiply ways to add challanging content, example as simple as introducing enemies with damage reduction and gating values that have modified resistance to lets say stuns and CCs, example Embers 2 which stuns enemies would be a stagger on said enemy instead and gives the enemy a short immunity to getting staggared again for a short time. Add massivly punishing attacks to the enemy that can be interupted with CCs where them being in a staggered, knockdowned or other forms of CCd state have a lot less damage reduction, the attacks could have interesting patterns that could allow players who experienced them find ways to dodge them instead while focusing on dealing damage, lets say the enemy takes more damage while casting these attacks. It adds fun and interesting enemies that can pose a challange to players and make CC frames relevant too."
Imo thats one solution to making enemies more interesting, theres also adding puzzles and challanges requiring skills in momentum stacking and general movment.
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Read up on the definition of "End-game" in the gaming worlds terms and then start looking of what aspects of warframe can be cosidered endgame out of the definition.
People have diffrent opinions of what endgame is but please do not change definitions of words or their meaning, we have clear examples of what happens when you do that in our society and see where that got us. (Im not the slightest ashamed of what i implied btw and i will not explain myself)
EDIT: I have not read any additional posts but responed to OP
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55 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:
You're responding to someone who has convinced themselves that MR means experience.
You convinced yourself that mr does not matter just as much, theres no denying that.
Please read what Chuckles posted and read the further arguments made by him and me outside of opinions.
It is clear you either havent read them or you forgot them and did a oopsie.
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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:
Anything beyond MR16 is really just a silly requirement that brings absolutley nothing to the group. An MR20+ will have nothing concrete compared to an MR16 that makes them more optimal for a group. After 16 it comes down to hours and only that. An MR16 with 500 hours has more experience than an MR20+ with 500 hours, because he has spent less time leveling pointless things.
Im sorry it have to come to me saying this but please read, then read again what chuckles and i said it last posts and set aside your opinion of the mr matter for a couple minutes. I already understand where youre coming with but you have yet to consider what has been discussed and somewhat ignored what has been said.
1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:An MR16 with 500 hours has more experience than an MR20+ with 500 hours, because he has spent less time leveling pointless things.
???
6 hours ago, Ziser said:Its important to also adress that players have diffrent rates of how well they can learn new things, a MR 14 player can take in the info you teach them and use it quick and good while a mr 24 player is slower to take in and use that info and vice versa.
Since it does not seam like you understood what i meant il break it down in more detail. A mr 14 ~ 16 player can spent 500 hours lvling gear in maps unefficient for gaining exp to gear but play same inefficient maps and/or play normal missions to gain exp to gear without learning anything or the opposite. On the other end an mr 20 ~ 24 can have 500 hours lvling gear in the exp efficient maps and being carried without learning anything or the opposite. Both type of players can also have an additional 500 hours of time in the game outside of missions learning things from players in chat, clan members, friends, information searching on the web etc. Both types of players can have spent 450 of those non-mission hours only caring about fashionframe or spent those hours actually reading up on stuff and learn mechanics or what else that would make them a experienced/skilled player. These are exmples in a wider field.
The diffrence here is:
6 hours ago, Ziser said:A player can rush mr thus making them quite inexperienced in reality which leads to the argument that mr dosnt matter however its also important to understand that this is present in both groups and theres a WHOLE LOT MORE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THE LOWER MR SPECTRUM ASWELL.
The amount of lower mr players are far outnumbering that of high mr players, staying on topic of Chuckles post, mr still matter.
I can go down adding more examples of above and explain further but i really wish for people to think for themself aswell, a thinking person is a healthy and open minded person after all.
You see this on a lot smaller level then for example i do, you dont count with the smaller variables between players or the many diffrent types of players that warframe has. I can safely say that i seen, interacted and played with a lot of the types of players present in this game during the the years.
Do take a look on the discussion outside opinions and with logic and common sense. I liked what you said about adding a lvl 100 starting level slider would devide the community between experienced/vets and new players more, it made sense and had me look at my own argument.
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Imo one of the strongest issues with archwing is the abilities and the energy. They use same system with abilities as frames but most of the abilities are hoplessly dull to use and fall very short in higher level missions no matter how much you mod them. Most of the utility abilities are fine, take Amesha for example is pretty neat but Elytron suffers from its abilities being awfully underscaled compared to tougher enemies.
Say they rework the archwings to not have energy but instead cooldowns and/or ammunation for abilities but they change abilities to have scaling damage values instead. Lets say that Elytron's first ability of launchable remote explosive rockets mines have an ammo pool instead but deals damage 60% of enemies health in blast damage along with a base damage of 500 blast damage with the ability to change rocket typesd,damage and how they behave. Ammo would be dropped from enemies. At the same time Elytrons 2'nd ability which vents its engines creating a smoke cloud that disrupts enemies guided missiles and lockons have a cooldown instead.
Will have to see how they change the archwings for Railjack before we can really discuss it further though. Its what i say about melee at the moment; arguing about melee is pointless because they are all getting their stats, combos and animations re-visited.
Why to dedicate time to WF event when at the end they will give away everything anyway?
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Because they simply listen to the wrong side of the community imo. God forbid theres any content you actually have to invest time and effort to do, growth and improvment is overrated anyway amirite?
Jokes aside, theres a lot of casual players in this game and even more of the bad kind of casual players too, the ones that dont want to try, dont want to improve and dont want to care or invest time and effort in the game. Same players still want same rewards as the players that do invest time and effort and when they dont get that because they are lazy and dont want to invest time and improve to get to those rewards they turn to complain. DE is like that parent spoiling their entitled spoiled kid when they really shouldent.
Its not like requirments for entering championship or elite levels of archery is lowered because you cant get or want to get to that level. Rewards are earned and sometimes it requires investment and effort. We gona start lowering requirments for jobs because people are lazy too? Dont gimme any "bad comparishon" crap, some players absolutely love the game and its depressing seing the game go down this path.