jmforeman02
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Posts posted by jmforeman02
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Actually it looks like a samurai with Japanese dragon head.
Based on the samurai armor on arms, and legs. The inverted horns on head coming together as a lotus petal, and similar to a samurai helmet crest. The head is elongated, and has whiskers on the chin.(which is possibly a design built into the helmet to represent it comes down and hangs below the chin, but moves back as if its flying.)
See Chroma has horns, and whiskers with an elongated head.
With organic samurai armor
Wow you are reaching.
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The forums will explode with 1 post accounts when it releases, can't wait to see the carnage.
Maybe we are underestimating DE. Maybe that was their goal all along. Plan goes like this:
Make most hideous frame ever > Forums explode in protest from new and old forum members > DE changes to their pre-made non-troll version > everyone thinks feedback matters > BAM! A more engaged user base
It's Machiavellian. Just a thought.
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Because 1300+ people on a forum out of maybe a million people who play the game is totally accurate and representative of the community!
Already had this argument on another thread. That sample size to population ratio is actually quite good. It's better than most scientific studies and some political polls. A drug trial with 1,000 subjects is a HUGE trial, and that's for a population of 7 billion, that's with a "B".
Let's think for a second. If we were never told we were getting a "dragon" frame, but instead that we're just getting a new warframe... I wonder how different all these people's reactions would have been, because they wouldn't be having expectations.
Then that would have been a world where we wouldn't feel misled by DE, but would still wonder why anyone would want to play as an anteater wrapped in bacon.
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Congratulations, you earned my upvote for actually having spine when defending your argument. Unlike some others that shall not be named.
Thank you.
1366 votes on that strawpoll and chroma still has a %49 ugly rating and a %24 "meh" rating.
Fairly sure that is NOT what DE wants.
And YES. That's a total of 73% who don't really like it. And only 23% like it. 4% have no opinion.
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The Bias end of the factor... Its like if I did a poll on how many feel being racism is ok in a very racist city and NEVER did the poll in a city that is more equal, or greatly against racism. Your only doing this poll where a small portion who usually bash what would help the game rather than what isn't...
Also I never focused my post on frame design. I focused the point of view on how forum is usually pushed in one direction. As I said before This forum was DEEPLY against helping newer players, and making content for them last year. Personally I would prefer if DE continued the same route of ignoring 75% of what is said, and doing things their way. Everything works out for the best in the end. Everyone gets something that makes them happy. Heck NOW I finally have a more infested, and monstrous warframe which I can enjoy... Still would like something more metallic, and organic-ish, but this works fine. Alot of people were never even following the whole dragon frame non-sense I didn't even care how it came out as long as it was cool, and fun to use. So far it looks cool. Now I am curious on function.
Also they did manage to get around to the three player made enemies, the special sword whip things, and even the most desired Dual Dakra. Heck even a new good looking glaive is coming out. Plus people will get to enjoy sentients. PLUS were getting Volt Prime. So if your not happy with the Warframe that alot of players WILL BE HAPPY WITH. Then you still have all the other things people would be happy with. Personally the only thing that would have made me happy IS the Volt prime till I saw the design of Chroma which blew my mind away. Not to mention they didnt say what prime items will be released with Volt Prime either. So that is another bonus factor that helps DE out immensely. One warframe that abunch of people are crying about looks ugly won't kill the game at all. Infact Limbo(Surprised by this), and Mesa haven't killed it... Zephy hasn't killed it. Alot of saving graces run along side these frames. I feel it would be best if DE manages to make a warframe for different groups of people to be happy. I haven't had a warframe in a good long time to be happy with. I usually stick to Excalibur, Banshee, and Volt. I have waited a LONG time to find an ideal warframe to add to my used set.
THIS might actually be the saving grace. Something new to play as... Something new I can enjoy for once.I simply have a good feeling about this. I got a good feeling people will enjoy his look a little bit more seeing him in game, and actually playing as him.
We all felt the same for Oberon along time ago thinking he looked stupid, but over time we got used to him. We love him now. Still abit dorky, but lovable regardless.
I didn't say that they never do anything right, I said that they did this wrong. Yes, that is just my opinion but it seems to be supported by the majority, or at least a plurality of the community. You keep saying that the forums are not representative of the community and that most ppl in game feel differently, but have absolutely no data to back that up. Nothing whatsoever. Your racist city analogy is horrible because this site is ideologically neutral. There is no reason to believe that the forums are not representative of the wider community. So I'll continue to rely on the only data we have, the forums and polls.
Actually I still think Oberon is awful along with Hydroid. People may learn to tolerate the frames they don't like, but once again, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. If you drink urine long enough you'll learn to deal. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't get upset if someone serves you urine when you asked for water.
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Do you two realize how you sound?
"Chroma is easy to guess too, he has scales over his back and thighs and his shoulders are wings. Google "medieval dragon" and you will see the similarity.
Oh really?!?! THANKS!!! I've never seen a dragon before! I had no idea. Now that I've googled medieval dragon it cleared everything up. Now I'm convinced that Chroma looks like an anteater wrapped in bacon.
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It's not -that- bad really. It could've been bonobo monkey frame.
I'd be happy with that as long as it actually looked like a Bonobo.
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Ash has ninja feet and hidden blades. Excalibur has sword motifs on his chest.
What about Mag? Her theme is magnetism, it's even been stated as such by the devs. Nobody runs around and yells about how her design is failed though. Same could be said for most warframes, actually. Is the problem just that people think Chroma is ugly? Do people not know what subjective means?
Mag has coils on her arm. Very electromagnetic in nature. Volt too. And they are both based on something more ethereal. Chroma is based on a mythical creature with several very well established looks.
Guys, guys, guys. Guys.
Use the new frame or don't. All this endless bickering is doing exactly nothing. We don't even know how the new model plays yet, and isn't that honestly more important?
Everyone just needs to calm down. All the polls and petitions and scrutiny over Chroma's design will most likely not get anywhere because the way he LOOKS doesn't affect gameplay, which is what DE cares about more.
It does do something. It gives DE our opinions so that they can keep that in mind in the future. That is the whole purpose of these forums.
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And a FAR GREATER majority that out weighs the number of people on the forums, or warframe fans that watched PAX, and only exist in the game KNOW NOTHING OF IT... So the larger majority have not spoken, and are usually against alot of things mentioned on the forums. Alot people even shy away from the general chat that you can only find in PUG, or if you ever get in contact with the clans that usually stay away from PUGs, and General chat all together.
A poll means nothing because you can't stick it in the game, or shove it in the face of every Warframe player who DOES NOT go on the Forums, OR has not seen the Pax livestream, OR stays away from general chat. This is the same thing I complained about ages ago when I said new players needed help and the entire community said NO WE NEED MORE END GAME SCREW NEW PEOPLE. See THAT was the forums last year. The people actually playing the game however had an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW. They hated how we kept bashing DE for end game, and wanted more help for newer players. The forum usually represents a certain kind of person versus the kind of people who NEVER visit the forums or aware of things happening outside of the game. Heck Warframe IS the only game I can keep up on news with. Every other game I have no idea where their live streams are at, or how they know something new is coming out. Warframe could very well have the same issue for newer people just now joining us, and yes this was also a VICIOUS issue last year. So your poll is 1/4 valid as the 3/4 which is everyone in game who don't know about the forums, and have NOT seen the pax livestream, and possibly NEVER go to General Chat. Is it there fault? NO. Getting into a new large community with tons of stuff everywhere is difficult. It takes time to get used to it.
This topic just like in the past is a limited opinion and just like how Limbo, and Mesa were widely accept by ingame players versus the violent screaming of people on the forums this Chroma will also be widely accept by players, and you will probably see it alot in the future being used constantly by people who specialize with that warframe just like how people specialize with Mesa, and Limbo EVEN NOW. There are even a small few who specialize with hydroid, and Zephy crushing enemies viciously during weird missions. Different people are using different warframes, and specialize with things YOU HATE. The ingame player is much different from the Forum player, and they outweigh us IMMENSELY.
Do you know how statistics work? They aren't supposed to poll everyone, they are supposed to use a sample of the population to give a reasonable estimation of the whole population. We could argue about all the confounding factors that make the sample less than ideal, but given the 25% difference between the top two options, it's unlikely to change the result. That isn't exactly a dead-heat. It's a clear signal. Just because the poll doesn't support your position doesn't mean it's invalid.
Btw, saying that DE made less than stellar frame designs in the past and most people didn't quit the game in protest isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the current frame. It just means that so far, DE's designs haven't been so offensive as to tank the entire business. That's a pretty low bar.
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It's funny, seems like people do not know of dragons outside of the European style dragons which are most commonly known. Also, what exactly is a fictional character "supposed" to look like?
This is a stupid argument I've seen several times now. We have all seen eastern dragons too. Who hasn't seen Dragon Ball Z, eaten at a Chinese restaurant, or seen the giant dragon puppets used in eastern celebrations? The problem is that Chroma doesn't look like an eastern dragon either. He looks like an anteater. At best you could say he looks like a sea dragon, which is of course a real creature related to a sea horse and not a dragon. Even then it would just look like a gigantic sea dragon died on his back, not like he was a dragon, and that's stretching it. He more closely resembles an anteater wrapped in bacon as many have pointed out. And a fictional character is "supposed" to resemble the thing it was based on, obviously. Also most people would like it if their fictional characters weren't hideous, and were actually cool looking.
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They have surpassed my expectations though..., and many other fans LOVE the new warframe. So the whole fans being failed is NOT true. Its more of a some love it, some hate it, and some are neutral, some don't care, and a LARGE number of Warframe players who NEVER watch pax, and NEVER come to the forums DON'T KNOW.
A plurality hate it. A majority hate it or think "meh". A minority like it. A very small minority have no opinion.
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And the reason I think a Dragon frame fits Warframe better than a dragon knight, is that there aren't any dragons.. yet. Usually you need dragons to have knights based on combat with or against dragons.
Nah, all the characters in this game are earth derived. The idea of dragons has been around for centuries, no reason it wouldn't carry on a few more centuries. It wouldn't be surprising if the Orokin or Tenno made something with a dragon theme, just like we do here and now even without the actual existence of dragons.
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Polls do not collect accurate information without people explaining their reasoning. period.
if i say i think the sky is pink, and a thousand other people say yes, that says nothing.
if i say i think the sky is pink and then we scientifically explain some Neural phenomenon that explains why i see the sky as pink when everyone else sees it a different color - then we have useful information.
just as food critics don't just say like or dislike when judging food. they explain what they like, what they dislike, and everything they're thinking about the food.
and that's why professional critics are considered to have a more valuable opinion than the average joe. they explain their thoughts.
worse still, on the internet, we all know how fairly common it is for people to randomly vote in Polls, vote for every possible opion in a Poll, or sometimes even spamming it from separate IP Addresses to multivote which opinion they think is more beneficial to them.
Wow, you are full of it. BOTH ARE VALUABLE! It's useful to have an overall count AND explanations. If you get 50 explanations from ppl saying why it's great, but those are the only 50 ppl like it out of 1,000 then that's not all that helpful. If on the other hand you can ascribe statistical weights to opinions, that matters more. The explanations come from here, the stats from the poll.
And yes, some ppl will randomly click an answer, and since it's random, that will cancel out. If ppl are cheating by taking the poll from multiple IPs, that still doesn't change the results if everyone does it.
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what kind of good ideas should DE adopt? just out of curiosity
All kinds really. There are tons of them on the forums, some quite popular. In the case of chroma though I was saying the most popular dragon fan concept was better. Not amazing, I think it could be improved and I think it is too rhino-like, but it's better than Chroma imo, and in the opinion of a large number of people. I posted a link to it in a previous post on this thread.
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That's just it. People want a "Dragon-Knight", rather than a Dragon Frame.
They want a Frame based off of an already existing fantasy subclass, rather than them basing the Frame of of just Dragons.
I personally prefer the route they went with, due to its originality, and that I think it actually looks cool...
Not to say I don't think the whole "dragon knight" thing isn't cool, I just think that what they went with fits Warframe better.
And the second image you posted isn't nearly as Rhino like as the concept linked earlier, but that might be because the second image is of a female Warframe.
Speaking of female Warframe a, I wouldn't mind an actual warrior-woman. Amazonian-ish and muscled, and all that cool stuff.
It think most people would be okay with it if it looked like a dragon and wasn't ugly personally. I think most people could tolerate a dragon support frame. That's just my opinion though. I could be wrong. I do agree though that people would probably be happiest with a dragon-knight type frame. Not sure why that would be a bad thing.
It doesn't matter that the frame was female, just that it was less rhino looking. You could remove the breasts and it would look male.
I'd also support a larger more muscular female frame. Could be cool.
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Polls are rarely useful because they only ask for yes/no or other extremely basic information without any explanations.
ergo the same reason why we don't have downvoting. Digital Extremes wants real information, yes/no is useless. they want to know why someone agrees or disagrees with some suggestion or opinion.
having to explain your opinion also makes for less false votes. you then cannot just go with the bandwagon, you must choose and explain why you chose it. if the explanation is balderdash, then the vote is excluded from final tally.
This is BS. he polls count the number of people who feel a certain way rather than looking at the number of comments. The forums don't do this well, instead they are good for seeing how vociferously each side defends their position. The polls give you a good overall feel of the community's feeling. Once you have that, you can look at the comments for each position and see why people feel that way. They are both relevant information.
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It's still too rhino-like, the drawing shares too many details that are present on rhino.
DE should be able to create something original and easily recognizable(theme and inspiration related), but they just missed the middleground on this one by a landing strip.
They went from limbo and mesa designs to another end of the spectrum.
I don't see what's Rhino-like about that one. I mean he has shoulder armor, chest armor, leg armor, and gauntlets, but those are reasonably common.
That is subjective.
All of this is subjective, but since this is a business based on it's popularity with it's potential users, subjective matters. -
even so unless DE supports the poll or hosts their own I don't see it holding any gravity in its current state.
I doubt they'd change his design much at this stage no matter what, though I hope I'm wrong. I was trying to make a point for the future. There is no shame in adopting good ideas. If you're not going to do that, then you should be able to do better. Don't ignore a good idea and put out something worse.
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Because DE didn't just want to do "Rhino with wings and fire".
I respect them for that. Thank them, actually. That fanmade concept was bad, IMO.
Rhino is painfully boring, and adding fire and wings would only make it a little less boring, but still boring
Chroma's design is new and interesting in every way, rather than a reskin of a frame we already have "with fire". He looks bestial and raw, rather than a boring dragon warrior.
I also happen go be lucky enough to be somebody who thinks he looks awesome, so that nice.
I didn't say that they should copy it, unless they couldn't do better. I think making him thinner and less Rhino like would be acceptable. Just look at this art someone did. Dragon-esque and yet looks nothing like Rhino.
"Telephone surveys are often considered bad anyway because it's mainly only old people who are home" same thing could be said about the chroma poll because majority of the people voting are people who are unhappy.Do you see big mega threads of appreciation?No you don't only of people outraged by how something isn't how they wanted it.
Right now, I'm seeing just the opposite actually. But that's the great thing about polls like this. They don't look at the number of comments or how vociferously people argue something, instead they count the number of supporters of each position. The forums don't do that well.
I would very much hesitate to call that poll statistically significant, given the conditions under which it was performed and the size of the sample.
Fan-made polls in general aren't particularly trustworthy, I've found.
And for the record, I voted "ugly".
Believe me, I wouldn't say the poll is perfect, but it's the best data we have. Most polls don't have ideal conditions, most are voluntary and with non-random samples which is the opposite of what you want, but we have to work with what we have. The sample size is quite large though, 1341 and rising. More is always better, but this is plenty to get a decent idea of the popularity. Especially given that "Ugly" is the front runner by 25 points. It's not exactly a dead heat. -
An average telephone poll for a political issue will usually have several hundred thousand or more participants, chosen at random.
This poll has a tiny percentage of our total community, selected from a group of specifically unhappy people.
I said some political polls, not all. Telephone surveys are often considered bad anyway because it's mainly only old people who are home when they do the calling, during the day, and who even have home phones. They are just now starting to do cell phones and at a much lower percentage than home phones. You also have to remember the population of the US is 300m+ people.
Point is that the poll results are well within the bounds of what would be considered statistically significant. Sorry if most people don't agree with you, doesn't mean the poll is wrong though.
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"Chroma's external design is widely considered to be hideous and inferior to one of the most popular fan concepts ever."from a 1000 people poll out of almost 8 mill players? yea accurate lol
1,300 from 8 mil is huge man. Do you realize that that is a much larger sample size to population ratio than most scientific studies use not to mention some political polls?
A drug trial on 1,000 people is a HUGE drug trial. And the population there is 7 Billion, with a B!!!
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I think DE needs to learn something obvious: if they are going to take the theme from a very popular fan concept and make their own completely different version, they should do it better than the original. If they can't do that, they should swallow their pride, make the popular version, thank the person who created the concept, and perhaps give them a plat reward. There is no virtue in throwing away great art or ideas and substituting worse.
In this case Chroma's external design is widely considered to be hideous and inferior to one of the most popular fan concepts ever.
Here is a poll on Chroma's appearance: http://strawpoll.me/3807541
Here is the link to the most popular Dragon concept: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/37089-a-warframe-concept-the-dragon-20-%E2%80%94-final-update-2092015/
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could be more outlandish.
chop chop Mynki, we can get weirder!
also, Polls are basically useless. the thread on it's own will have much more useful information.
I don't know that that's true. I think we should take a poll on that.
Seriously though, what are you basing this on?
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In my opinion I like Impetus better but more people would understand Newton better. I just think Impetus sounds like more of a warrior than Newton
Thanks for the input. I'm still debating it myself. Hopefully I'll get some more posts on it.
The Butchery Of Frames
in General Discussion
Posted
Hah. The armor looks nothing like that for one. Edo armor is much closer.