Triplinster
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Posts posted by Triplinster
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12 hours ago, Cosmic_Elf said:
I have finally reached the TYPHOON , but now again there are no players to get standing for mods and things. I hardly have much mods, and I had found a player who gave me advice about weapons and damage. It is unbalance, and not all weapons do the same amount of damage equally. So now that I completed it I have to realise the fact I cant haste and work through and get the conclave items, since there are hardly any players in, and when there are players , i mostly end up being slaughtered so i can understand about the continuous dying and reswpawning,,, fortunately you still gain standing for trying.. but the challenges are mostly impossible to do., since they are pros at this and have fully modded weapons and frames and had hours of practice that they would find anyone new to the game mode easy meat... no wonder why I thought Khora's cat would help me at least come 4th 5th on average. I have put Khora away, and wish to play to learn... but there are hardly any players, it is just about being at the right place at the right time... and when there are players it is die and respawn, and when you hit them with your weapons, you just almost kill them but die because they have mods to give their weapons that extra which makes them kill with one bullet/arrow instead of having to fire 3-3 bullets/arrows which i would have to do.
@Countess_Hapmuhr
You guys should join the conclave discord for helpful advice/tips discord.me/conclave
Many daily players will be willing to give the mods away for free.
Conclave is active during some time. I don't know exact timing by hour because of timezone S#&$, I just get on same time of the day and easily get in a match. But people over at conclave discord might know in detail.
Also as for mods, only 2-3 mods are important for primary and secondary weapons.
And these are utility mods like HP regen on kill, reload while holster and holster speed. -
If we're going that route of mindlessly forcing PVE into PVP like with Khora
Then where's my shadows of the dead
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Hello, I'd like to take some time to talk about some weapon balancing and the state of some weapons.
For now, the purpose of this post is not to achieve perfection or even near perfection in balancing. But to balance weapons that are currently seriously overpowered or under powered.
Few things before I get into the balance pass.
Note 1: This is Conclave Feedback forum. Discussion is relevant to PVP only.
Note 2: The purpose of this post is discuss on weapon balance ONLY. Please refrain from mindless irrelevant discussion like “Conclave is dead” “Remove conclave” or whatever.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18nmqtlYkvKLEjxP7zAuQXWdHjh1sMbfdljLUWVjeqhg/edit?usp=sharing
Here’s a nice little tool I made for looking at in game damage of weapons on paper. You can look around and play with it to form your own opinions. Or verify If what I’m saying is in line with what happens in game.
(Note 3: Don’t expect my suggested changes to be a result of lots of tweaking with the tools below. My suggested changes are not entirely backed up by tweaking but formed by my own opinions, what I think is approximately “Right change to do”.)
It has:
1. General True HP/Shield/Throughshield/finisher/TTK/HTK Calc/Checker
You can input armour, health and shield along with any IPS conversion and damage multiplier and check things like,
- Health DMG per shot
- Shield DMG per shot
- Quantization checker (To see if weapon is dealing +- 6.25% damage, or if it’s at neutral with current IPS distribution)
- Health DMG through shields ← This tells you if your weapons deals enough damage to break current shields, and if does then how much damage will be dealt on health (Accuracy +-1 DMG)
- Finisher at Shield ← This tells you if the weapon is capable of OHK (One hit killing)/Finishing current health and armour entirely (like Lex, sniper etc) and if it does then at what shield value will it OHK with current Health and Armour.
- HTK (Hits To Kill) ← This tells you how many hits/shots this weapon will take to kill a warframe at current Health-Shield-Armour. It takes in account health DMG through shields.
- TTk (Time To Kill) ← This tells you how long it will take for the weapon to kill current Health-Shield-Armour. (HTK - 1)/FireRate
2. Comparision of Health/Shield DPS/HTK/TTK
Similar to 1. But has weapons sorted by HealthDPS, ShieldDPS, HTK, TTK.
3. QUANTIZATION CHECKER
This shows the quantization situation of all IPS weapons, whether the weapon has +6.25% dmg, -6.25% dmg or if it’s neutral (0) at it’s IPS distribution (Includes all conversions possible).
4. Elemental(True HP/Shield/Throughshield/finisher/TTK/HTK)
Same as 1. But for Elemental weapons. Also shows HDPS and SDPS. (Conversion mods don’t work on these weapons so it’s not in this sheet).
5. List of automatic hitscan accurate primary rifles
This is a list I made of popular primary rifles. Same thing as 2. But for rifles only.
6. list of accurate auto and semi auto accurate medium-longrange secondaries
Same thing as 5. But for secondaries.
7. Sniper comparison
Similar to 5. And 6. But for snipers. Includes stats of snipers at update 21.4 (Because I believe snipers were most balanced then).
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1. SNIPERSAbove you can see the stats for the snipers. Looking at this you can easily tell which snipers are lacking or seriously overpowered.
a. Vectis
Currently the Vectis has a fire rate of 1 and a total damage of 110. It's very lacking compared to other snipers. And deserves some form of buff.
The effective head shot multipliers at both zoom levels are also laugh-able. (1.4*1.3=1.82 at base scope) and (1.4*1.50=2.1 at max zoom).
I have been using the Vectis at max zoom and aiming for headshots, even then the max zoom headshot damage is so low that it only 1 shots lights-super lights (1.2-1.1 mobility).
Changes for Vectis:
Base damage increase 110 > 115
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
Allow Vectis to use mod "Emergent aftermath"
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b. Rubico
Changes for Rubico
Base damage decrease 110 > 100
Remove "Ambush Optics" mod.
Reason for this change:
It's mod "Ambush Optics" allows Rubico to have scope zoom levels of 1.75 base and 3 max. It's no longer a sniper with this mod.
It also has the fastest fire rate of all snipers (2.67) with a magazine of 5. It deserves to be toned down a bit. The new change will still keep it in the 3 shot range till there's a better solution for balancing Snipers.
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c. Snipetron
Base damage decrease 132 > 110
Increase reload speed 3.5 > 2.5
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
Reason for this change:
Snipetron got a massive (unintentional pve stat transfer?) buff recently. It needs to tone down a bit in total damage. And deserves some buff on the reload speed and headshot multi side.
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d. Snipetron Vandal
No change to base damage.
Decrease reload speed 2 > 2.5
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53 (Headshot multiplier increase only if fire rate is decreased as the weapon has a big magazine (Fire rate decreased from 2 --> 1.5)
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e. Vectis Prime
Base damage increase 106 > 110
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
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f. Vulkar
Increase base damage 101 > 110
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
(Note: Vulkar has 1.5 fire rate)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
g. Vulkar Wraith
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53 (Headshot multiplier increase only if fire rate is decreased as the weapon has a big magazine (Fire rate decreased from 2 --> 1.5)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------h. Lanka
Electric 120.8 > 140
(Quick shot) 46 > 70
Reason for this change:
Lanka is the most underpowered Bow/Sniper/Hybrid in conclave. It never was able to use "Lie in Wait" but it still got nerfed some time ago when it desperately needed a buff.
Even with electric procs (Which by the way is not 50% of base damage like other electric weapons) it currently lacks a lot in damage.
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2. Some other weapons (and miscalculations)
First i'd like to give a small intro on miscalculations. Currently in Warframe, there are many weapons at some damage levels that deal unintended damage than intended (Observed damage ≠ Intended/Calculated damage). This problem is more visible in PVP than PVE. Me and a couple of other players (Theroxenes and SevenLetterKWord) have been testing weapons for miscalculations and found many weapons in PVP dealing unintended damage. This deserves a separate post for discussion, but I needed to bring awareness to this issue before going forward with the weapon changes. As some of these weapons deal high/low unintended damage.
a. Lex Prime
Above you can see the damage values for Lex Prime. Lex Prime is one of the most strongest secondaries in game. It does unintended high shield and health damage at stock.
Aside from the high unintended damage. It's also very strong on paper compared to Lex.
Almost twice the fire rate of Lex, while having 75% of it's damage. It needs to be toned down a little.
Changes for Lex Prime:
Base damage decrease 78 > 70
b. Lex
It too needs a little tone down in damage I think. Finisher potential is a bit too high
(OHK at 16 shield, 110 health and 55 armour)
Base damage decrease 105 > 102 (Or I don’t know man make it 100)
It is a weapon with a special purpose I believe. How about
Headshot multiplier 1.5 > 2
To go along with lower base damage. Or maybe an augment that gives
- Base DMG
+ Headshot Multiplier
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c. Sybaris seriesSybaris weapons are really solid on their own. Sybaris Prime specially with the augment can reach around 0.65 TTK on stock excalibur (If you take out it’s -6.25% dmg on stock)
Sybaris Prime shouldn't need "Sudden Justice" mod.Changes for Sybaris series:
Remove "Sudden Justice" mod for Sybaris Prime
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------d. Viper series
Viper is currently the most powerful weapon in the game. Insane accuracy, rifle levels of damage and insane fire rate. It's like a pocket gorgon with no spool up.
10 HTK (Stock Excalibur) ← Viper
9 HTK (Stock Excalibur) ← Karak (Best primary auto)And the mod that just takes this weapon to a whole new level:
If you do the math for both vipers. If you land a headshot and trigger this mod you get:
Viper: 14 mag + (2second*14.38 fire rate) = 42 Mag
Viper Wraith: 20 mag + (2second*14.38) = 48 mag
That's absurd amounts of damage in a short amount of time. Also after the skull shots end, you can land another head to trigger.
Aside from that, they also have insanely low reload speed (0.8-0.7).
Changes to Viper series
Viper Wraith
Base damage decrease 25 > 22
Viper
Base damage decrease 27 > 24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------e. Daikyu
Recently the Daikyu got an unintentional buff to it's charge rate which carried over from PVE. The charge went from 1.75 to 1.00. A huge increase.
For this reason, it's become insanely powerful now especially since it takes advantage of this mod
But one more thing to keep in mind. The daikyu also got a very minor damage nerf after it’s IPS shift. Below is comparison of current 1.0 chargerate Daikyu vs 1.75 chargerate Old Daikyu
You can see here that the OHK potential of new Daikyu IPS is a bit less at higher armour.
So yea, minor damage nerf, huge charge rate buff.
Suggested change
Decrease charge rate from
1.0 to 1.5Also from my last post,
On 2017-11-08 at 4:42 PM, Triplinster said:1. LANKA
Lanka is like the most forgotten weapon in game right now. Before U21 sniper nerf, Lanka was the worst sniper in game damage and dps wise and needed a buff.
It had around 132 electric base damage if I remember correctly, which was then nerfed down to 120.8 electric damage.
So after U21 nerf on Lanka, It went from 132 electric damage to 120.8. Which is -11 base damage. Ok, fine, but what about the weapon as a whole? did it really deserve the change?
Now lets compare Lanka after U21 to Daikyu. Remember that Lanka never used Lie in Wait mod, nor does it have or ever had a scope damage multiplier.
Base Damage
Lanka: 120.8
Daikyu (After u21 nerf): 169 (236 with SLB)
Flight speed
Lanka: 200
Daikyu: 180
Charge rate
Lanka: 1.5
Daikyu: 1.75
What I'm trying to show here is, Lanka is so much closer to Daikyu. But despite being much closer to it, it lacks the most against both Snipers and Bows.
Additional Note: Lanka is completely inaccurate un scoped meanwhile Daikyu is accurate enough to be viable without aiming down sight. and the uncharged damage is so low for Lanka that it's better to just forget about it.
Now lets get to U22. Ok, 1 second charge rate from 1.5, but did it really need that as a change? It's already too hard to land shots with it. The charge rate change doesn't help Lanka at all.
It's better to revert charge rate on Lanka (Or keep it) and increase it's damage per shot to be better than all snipers, and on par with some bows.
I believe the sweet spot would be from 140 to 155 for Lanka. Although mechanically it should be much more compared to Daikyu. At least 140-155 damage would do Lanka some justice
2. DAIKYU
Daikyu is a weapon with only one purpose. To take down most targets in one shot. I think this was the reason why Daikyu's damage was reverted from 169 to 185 between U21 and U22.
It's all cool. But there's one problem. It's too over rewarding.
What I mean by that is, this weapon is too easy to use for direct shots (Majority of players use it for direct shots).
The charge hold time of Daikyu gives player all the time in the world after reaching max charge to find it's next victim and release the shot. It's too forgiving.
I believe a weapon with a unique purpose like Daikyu, should stand out in difficulty. The charge hold time should be decreased. By a lot. Think Opticor but a bit more forgiving with charge time, but much less forgiving than it's current value. Also the charge rate could use a little tweak. From 1.75 to 1.875 - 2 seconds.
Ok that was about charge hold time and Daikyu being forgiving and all for DIRECT shots. Now let's talk about a major problem with all bows.
2.5 INDIRECT SHOTS, FLIGHT SPEED AND BOWS
With U21 came big changes to weapons like Snipers and Bows. And with it came damage and flight speed nerfs for all bows.
The worst thing that could happen to bows happened. Flight speed nerfs. With cherry on top major damage nerfs. Players with bows were already a minority before this. Now it makes no sense to use bows over anything else.
Bow changes after U21
Before nerf, flight speeds for bows (Except Paris Prime and Daikyu) were already low. Some bow players even used -damage +flight speed mods to compensate for it.
The most popular bow after Daikyu, Paris. Already had too much damage while still staying in the 2 shot range. It was possible to bump to the flight speed of it while still keeping it in the 2 shot range. Which was a good bandaid solution, but it should have been balanced from the start.
The flight speed changes greatly impact overtracking/leading or indirect shots. Which already take a lot of skill to perform. It makes no sense to nerf flight speed if it all stays below 200m/s, since it mainly impacts indirect shots much more than direct shots.
In my opinion, first the flight speeds of bows should be brought up to 180-200m/s range for all bows, then the damage should be balanced.
Make it use-able for players first, then decide what the purpose of the bow is. They all don't have to absolute 2 shots. But the damage should justify the skill required.
Little note on damage: The damage for bows atm, not looking at flight speed. Is still too low. The bow class has massive difference in damage. Example= Dread vs Paris Prime.
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f. Paris seriesAfter some testing, I've found out that the Paris weapons are dealing far less damage than intended.
This is what the paris weapons should deal
What they actually deal (Stock no mods)
Paris (115 shield)
Paris Prime (112 shield)Health damage is also like, 10 dmg lower than intended damage. No idea what’s going on here.
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g. Prisma Gorgon
The mag and total ammo is way too high with it’s fire rate and DPS. Add that it can use this augment as well
Changes for Prisma Gorgon
Reduce Mag and Total ammo to Gorgon and Gorgon wraith levels.
Changes for other Gorgons
Needs a bit of tweaking (nerf), remove Gorgon frenzy maybe, or tweak the damage.
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H. Strun series
I think Mk1-Strun and Strun need a little tweaking.
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So yea, that’s all I got in mind. Obviously there are more weapons that need to be looked at, but I can’t bring them up until their behaviour (like augment behaviour and burst weapon fire rate mechanics) is clear to me.
Aside from that, any if anyone got anything to add, feel free to do so.
EDIT2: Forgot to add a note about snipetron vandal and vulkar wraith. -
On 2018-03-04 at 12:12 PM, Cicadeus said:
your graphs are lacking dark theme
In case anyone is looking for dark themed EHP graph 😄
Edit 2: Updated graph for Beasts of the Sanctuary 22.18.3 as provided by SevenLetterKWord 😄 -
I think this is not suppose to be active for conclave. But it is.
SpoilerSpoiler
-
There's a bug going on which De-Synchronizes the player model and hitbox completely. It can randomly happen to anyone, I think packet loss or poor connection can trigger this a lot more, but I'm not sure.
What it's like to be Desynced yourself
Spoiler
How players see DeSynced players.
Spoiler
How players see DeSynced players 2
Spoiler
I got EE.log saved right after it happened to me. Link to EE.log= https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JamwLNhnYKs4j-3U6wf_wXrYlTITBSF8 -
28 minutes ago, Cicadeus said:
I want conclave arcanes that make me do less damage and in-turn boost credit gain.
Take more damage for more weapon exp >.<
Instead of a mod or arcane. It could be a feature (Not saying I agree the nerf/increase gain idea you have) that you can enable/disable or a challenge you can participate in.
That's better than making it a mod or arcane and pissing the entire PVE player base because they added something unique and exclusive to PVP. -
I'm assuming you mean balanced arcanes that might be useful in conclave and not the exact same ones we have in PVE.
Conclave mods exist and serve their purpose well. No reason for arcanes to exist in PVP. Heck, we shouldn't even need to rely on "Maxed out PVP mod" setups or ever go that route. PVP at core is about self improvement, and not so much about modding or gear improvement as we have in PVE. -
Or just remove the weapons because both visible and invisible flames are a problem.
Invisible flames are a problem because you can't know how big is the hit box and it's distance from you. Or if you start getting attacked from an angle you can't see.
I made that gif to show how ridiculous invisible flames are with ignis. I couldn't tell if I was getting attacked by the flames, or the heat proc, or if I was inside it's range. It causes a lot of confusion.
I don't have a multitasking super computer in my head measuring my distance from player, and then calculating hitbox size of ignis and it's distance from me knowing my distance from the player, then checking if I am it it's hit box range, and noticing damage received to tell the difference if I'm getting hit by heat procs, or Ignis itself. And at the same time coming up with enough processing power left to do other functions like actually fight and stuff. Even if I could process close to the impossible, there would be a ton of delay and i'd be either dead, or dying or at a great disadvantage in a fight.
Having an issue stay as a band aid for another issue is a bad idea. And I'm not sure if they can magically make the Ignis's flames better without major changes to how the weapon behaves. Which they might or might not be willing to do depending on how it affects PVE and what they think of it.
I'm also not sure if DE can balance it perfectly as well. Looking in the recent history, I don't think they'd bother to make it balanced to perfection. Or if they'd go that far to balance it.
DE has "1" "0" enable/disable option. It'd be best for both DE and the players if they just turned that "1" to "0". Saving DE time, and saving players from more frustration. -
It's either too bright, covering the user. Or it's completely invisible like in this gif.
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In my opinion, with the all the issues it has. It's just easier and better to disable the weapon in conclave. Saving DE time and avoiding further frustration for players in conclave. There's no need for a dumb weapon like a flame thrower to exist in conclave.
It has too many issues like invisible flames, uninterrupted firing during meele/bullet jump, too high damage (Even if the damage was halved, it would still melt players in conclave). -
Edit 1: I am NOT asking for removal of Ignis from the whole game. Only Conclave.
At Update 22.13.3, for some unknown reason DE decided that it was a good Idea to add a flamethrower without testing and proper balancing.
Stats of Ignis/Ignis wraith at update 22.13.3
What's not included is the range at the time. Which was 16m for Ignis wraith and 12m for Ignis.
Ok, mistakes happen. Maybe they realized that it was not a good idea to balance it properly without testing. With all the issues Ignis has, In my opinion (and most players believe this) it should have been removed.
Then comes hotfix 22.13.4 with very weak nerfs and no fixes for it's issues.
Not shown range nerf
Ignis 12 to 8
Ignis wraith 16 to 10
Instead of removing Ignis, DE then decided to again, without any fixes, just nerf it by 18% and decrease the range a bit. I doubt there was any testing done here as well.
Now I will show you, how absurdly broken Ignis still is with 11 or 13.2 heat damage (50% damage reduction from Nekros)
Spoiler
This next gif shows the major issue it still has. Invisible flames, flames still damaging during air meele and bullet jump.
Spoiler
DE please. You cannot magically make Ignis fine. It's better for both the Conclave and DE to just have this weapon removed.
Saving DE time and avoiding any further frustration caused by this. -
Edit: I'm adding more details now. Gameplay videos are uploading.
Ignis currently has insane AOE and punchthrough. It's currently the dumbest weapon in conclave right now.
I'm not sure why DE decided to add it in the first place, on top of adding it without any stat balancing/testing.
Stats of Ignis and Ignis Wraith in PVP.
Edit2: Added Ignis lobby gameplay
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit 3: UPDATE HOTFIX 22.13.4
Hotfix 22.13.4 brought some nerfs for Ignis
Ignis
Total base damage: 29 > 24
Range reduced from 12m -> 8m
Ignis Wraith
Total base damage 27 > 22
Range reduced from 16m -> 10m
Invisible Ignis flame bug is still there. -
1 hour ago, JuicyButthurt said:
My take on PvP in Warframe would be more consistent in terms of player movement speed compared to its current implementation, basic movement in Conclave (typical bulletjump and sliding people are used to in PvE) seems to be far slower in comparison, hence the heavy reliance on exploiting physics glitches like backflips that fling player in a direction at mach speed.
All of that is only made worse by how unreliable and inconsistent networking in Warframe is in general.
I believe you're talking about the one move no one ever uses.
Bullet jump cancel to backflip. It's one of the hardest moves to pull off and no matter how much I tried to teach people how to do it, they couldn't replicate.
And no, it's not an exploit. It's just a bullet jump cancel to back flip.
The real issue which you people don't talk about is skill gap separation. Because the pros will always have the same advantage over the newb no matter what movement you change/nerf.
-
18 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:
but the kraken and the gremlins mediocre weapons in pve at best has a lot to be desired in pvp.
Kraken is one of the most overpowered/unbalanced weapons in conclave right now.
From my recent balance postQuoteb. Kraken
Kraken is the most underrated overpowered weapon in the game. Even though not many people use it, it's still very overpowered and benefits greatly from miscalc.
174 shield damage in one click. This weapon is enough to 2 click most warframes at a very high fire rate.
Changes for Kraken:
Base damage decrease 60 > 55
Some footage of Kraken in action
-
8 hours ago, aerelm said:
Well... I can as easily just dare you and other conclave residents to, maybe just for once, don't turn threads like this into an e-peen waving contest so issues can be properly addressed and discussed. Guess that's too much to ask though, cause this is how threads like this always go, no matter who's on either side.
But thanks for the discussion, was good while it lasted.
Excuse me? "e-peen" waving content? I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
10 hours ago, aerelm said:ideos like this one show the issue quite well. While it's something that conclave vets may consider to be "cool" or "show of skill", truth is the same (defensive) results can be achieved by any nubcake continuously bashing all the buttons on their keyboard at once,
But tell me, after this statement how exactly am I suppose to take you seriously?
It gives me the impression that you think you know what you're talking about when you don't. -
1 hour ago, aerelm said:
Videos like this one show the issue quite well. While it's something that conclave vets may consider to be "cool" or "show of skill", truth is the same (defensive) results can be achieved by any nubcake continuously bashing all the buttons on their keyboard at once,
First of all, that gif you sneaked in with an edit, that's neither "cool" nor "show of skill" for pvp veterans. It's basic movement for pvp veterans. And it's very very straight forward, simple and slow.
And I DARE you to achieve the SAME results by "bashing the keyboard". For me that comment removes all weight in your comments.
Also, I'm not a Quake player. So your paragraphs of Quake vs Conclave comparison aren't helping me understand you. -
35 minutes ago, aerelm said:
and the way they can be chained together leads to a whole clusterfluff of inconsistency in movement pattern which boils it down to a game of patience and having to wait for the right shot, rather than a game of skill.
I never encountered this problem. And many other skilled/pro players I talk to never talked about this being a problem. I believe you're wrong when you say "rather than a game of skill" because skilled players can offensively deal with those players.
But if you're talking about the average player. Then yes it's impossible for those players to deal with such movement. And in that case I believe it comes down to lack of skill gap separation. -
29 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:
and the amount of cheese that is going on in conclave is enough to make a never-ending amount of cheese toast sandwiches, bullet jump, bullet jump, bullet jump galore, bullet jump bullet jump, bullet jump some more, it gets really off-putting,
Why is bullet jump a problem? If bullet jump was removed, the skill gap would increase. Since we still have aim glide, double jump, wall jump and rolls which most PVP veterans make use of.
Besides bullet jump is now the core of movement in Warframe. It doesn't make sense to make PVP unrelated to the main game itself. Therefore it doesn't make sense to single out bullet jump as one of the problems with conclave. -
Hello, I'd like to take some time to talk about some weapon balancing and the state of some weapons.
First of all, I'd like the readers of this post to refrain from talking about topics irrelevant to the subject (Weapon balancing). Limit the discussion to weapon balancing. Thank you.
For now, the purpose of this post is not to achieve perfection or even near perfection in balancing. But to balance weapons that are currently seriously overpowered or under powered.
1. SNIPERS
Above you can see the stats for the snipers. Looking at this you can easily tell which snipers are lacking or seriously overpowered.
a. Vectis
Currently the Vectis has a fire rate of 1 and a total damage of 110. It's very lacking compared to other snipers. And deserves some form of buff.
The effective head shot multipliers at both zoom levels are also laugh-able. (1.4*1.3=1.82 at base scope) and (1.4*1.55=2.17 at max zoom).
I have been using the Vectis at max zoom and aiming for headshots, even then the max zoom headshot damage is so low that it only 1 shots lights-super lights (1.2-1.1 mobility).
Changes for Vectis:
Base damage increase 110 > 120
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
Allow Vectis to use mod "Emergent aftermath"
b. Rubico
Changes for Rubico
Base damage decrease 110 > 100
Remove "Ambush Optics" mod.
Reason for this change:
Rubico is currently the best sniper in the game. It's mod "Ambush Optics" allows Rubico to have scope zoom levels of 1.75 base and 3 max. It's no longer a sniper with this mod.
It also has the fastest fire rate of all snipers (2.67) with a magazine of 5. It deserves to be toned down a bit. The new change will still keep it in the 3 shot range till there's a better solution for balancing Snipers.
c. Snipetron
Base damage decrease 132 > 110
Increase reload speed 3.5 > 2.5
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
Reason for this change:
Snipetron got a massive unintentional buff recently. It needs to tone down a bit in total damage. And deserves some buff on the reload speed and headshot multi side.
d. Snipetron Vandal
No change to base damage.
Decrease reload speed 2 > 2.5
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
e. Vectis Prime
Base damage increase 106 > 115
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
f. Vulkar
Increase base damage 101 > 110
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
g. Vulkar Wraith
Headshot multiplier 1.4 > 1.53
h. Lanka
Electric 120.8 > 140
(Quick shot) 46 > 70
Reason for this change:
Lanka is the most under powered Bow/Sniper/Hybrid in conclave. It never was able to use "Lie in Wait" but it still got nerfed some time ago when it desperately needed a buff.
2. Some other weapons (and miscalculations)
First i'd like to give a small intro on miscalculations. Currently in Warframe, there are many weapons at some damage levels that deal unintended damage (Observed damage ≠ Intended/Calculated damage). This problem is more visible in PVP than PVE. Me and a couple of other players (Theroxenes and SevenLetterKWord) have been testing weapons for miscalculations and found many weapons in PVP dealing unintended damage. This deserves a separate post for discussion, but I needed to bring awareness to this issue before going forward with the weapon changes. As some of these weapons deal high/low unintended damage.
a. Lex Prime
Above you can see the damage values for Lex Prime. Lex Prime is one of the most strongest secondaries in game. It does unintended high shield and health damage at stock.
Aside from the high unintended damage. It's also very strong on paper compared to Lex.
Almost twice the fire rate of Lex, while having 75% of it's damage. It needs to be toned down a little.
Changes for Lex Prime:
Base damage decrease 78 > 70
b. Kraken
Kraken is the most underrated overpowered weapon in the game. Even though not many people use it, it's still very overpowered and benefits greatly from miscalc.
174 shield damage in one click. This weapon is enough to 2 click most warframes at a very high fire rate.
Changes for Kraken:
Base damage decrease 60 > 55
c. Sybaris series
Sybaris weapons are really solid on their own. Their fire rate of (Sybaris 3.98 - Dex Sybaris 4.17 - Sybaris Prime 4.72) is already solid. They shouldn't need "Sudden Justice" mod. That just takes them to a whole new level of broken.
Changes for Sybaris series:
Remove "Sudden Justice" mod.
d. Viper series
Viper is currently the most powerful weapon in the game. Insane accuracy, rifle levels of damage and insane fire rate. It's like a pocket gorgon with no spool up.
And the mod that just takes this weapon to a whole new level:
If you do the math for both vipers. If you land a headshot and trigger this mod you get:
Viper: 14 mag + (2second*14.38 fire rate) = 42 Mag
Viper Wraith: 20 mag + (2second*14.38) = 48 mag
That's absurd amounts of damage in a short amount of time. Also after the skull shots end, you can land another head to trigger.
Aside from that, they also have insanely low reload speed (0.8-0.7) and high accuracy.
Changes to Viper series
Viper Wraith
Base damage decrease 25 > 22
Viper
Base damage decrease 27 > 24
e. Daikyu
Recently the Daikyu got an unintentional buff to it's charge rate which carried over from PVE. The charge went from 1.75 to 1.00. A huge increase.
For this reason, it's become insanely powerful now specially since it takes advantage of this mod
For now, the Daikyu should either be unable to use this mod, have decreased over-all base damage, or get reduced fire rate with the use of "Spring-Loaded Broadhead" mod.
So far these are the changes I believe should be made. There are other weapons out there that also deserve a nerf/buff. But I'm unsure on how to balance those weapons. So far the weapons I talked about above are the weapons I believe that need to be looked at the most. -
I agree. We NEED a way to properly organize custom TAs. Also Spectator mode and map selection would be nice.
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Vauban is suppose to be limited to 2 teslas active at any time. But after some update (I think PoE) Vauban is somehow now capable of planting more than 6 teslas (maybe infinite or PvE limited).
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I agree Warframe PVP has the potential. It's a unique game mode that offers good freedom of movement.
But for PVP to really shine, it needs to be it's own thing. You can see that not many players are happy with it's existence as they come from PVE background. If there was a way to separate the two modes, that'd be the best.
And as someone who has been playing PVP only for 1600+ hours. No, PVP is not a bad game mode in general. It all depends on the preference of the player trying the game mode. I think DE has done a great job with the PVP overhaul (PVP 2.0) so far. It just lacks attention in basic weapon balancing and neutralizing changes carrying over from PVE over time. -
1 hour ago, rockscl said:
- "This mode is unbalanced and never will be balanced, theres no skill matching system."
People will flow into the servers and gamemodes that they prefer, not only based on ping affinity, but mainly based on the overall experience that they get on each server, what actually bothers them more, they will be able to dodge it, bad players will gather in a bunch of servers, try hards will gather in other servers, all by themselves, read a lesson about socialism vs free economy: the people knows better what they want, let them choose, and they will take the best option for themselves, that will increase the activity in pvp, and that will create more balanced lobbies, so everyone will get a better and clearer feel of what is going on around his own skill level, they will find less reasons to blame the arsenal and more reasons to blame themselves when they cant win.
Well I don't think it'll be balanced by itself. We still do need a match making system. But a server browser is definitely a step in the right direction.
If PVP does well with server browsers, then DE might think about a matchmaking system and overall direction of PVP in warframe.
Khora needs to be disabled in conclave, like many weapons already are
in Conclave
Posted
I know many people who play for fun. Playing conclave daily. But anyways,
I believe we should talk about balance regardless of the it's worth fullness. Lets focus on balancing the game mode first, then let the balance team decide if it's worth it or not, if not now, later at least it may be of use to them when they think about investing time in the game mode.
Ivara and Vauban are far from useless. Looks at their abilities here https://docs.google.com/document/d/12jStbAKL6PV5vDdlmMjav5_g8hY0pzmkUDuMVl2YqWk/edit?usp=sharing
Very solid kits if you ask me.
I don't think DE can only make frames useless or completely unbalanced. They have lots of room for change there.