Spyke2009

True. It COULD have been worse which is another issue I've heard talked about and justifiable potentially if they're correct, also. It's not like SOME of the things being said by people defending EDA are incorrect. A flex slot approach and foregoing the full research points, can make all the difference in giving you a fighting chance at not being a drag and a drain on the team, which is rarely a full team from my experience. The issue isn't in its "challenge" is my point, I think it's sufficiently challenging enough and enjoyable (imho) with the enemy modifiers added alone. It has been a mainstay of games in terms of ARPGS for a while and it does work and help break the player out of monotonous behaviour and, reliance on the same tried and tested meta solutions. I'm not against wanting to mix it up. The RNG loadout aspect however, just seems silly to me and not that big of a challenge that I enjoy unless, they make duviri esque concessions and tweaks along those lines in mitigating that part. I find it tends to pigeonhole me more than it encourages me to use something different because it would be fun to see it turbocharged or giving me some utility I overlooked when building the weapon and building towards higher MR. I think, the mode HALF succeeds at what it's intended to do. To make you THINK outside the box and use your non meta stuff to approach interesting curve balls thrown at you via the modifiers given to enemies. I'm ok with this being the goal, it's just I don't think the motive is purely and honestly, what they say it is. It really is "Evil duviri" to me lol... All the bad aspects of duviri content and modes, with none of the mitigating factors against the RNG. Don't know why a developer would push it and think it's something that would be appreciated by the majority of the playerbase. Who want challenging endgame content, just not driven by systems that end up as pigeonholing you. Then again, I'm more a fan of repeatable content that has constant rewards with some nice rare nuggets, weekly lockouts and such though another mainstay. Tend to irk me, I'm just used to it in Warframe more than anything else as there is PLENTY of fun repeateable content to engage with that isn't current. For me at least.

Just an update for those trying to get cute and quaint, I completed the EDA this week in spite of the terrible RNG loadout choices. One "flex slot" for the frame as I wasn't looking for the max rank is all I really needed. It wasn't in ANY way anything beyond me it was just ANNOYING and, my output was less than great for the team, which is the irksome part. I actually like to perform and play well in teams and contribute. gimping my choices with RNG loadout stuff, doesn't really help that much and limits me a lot and... stupidly so imho. I can EASILY play around some of the modifiers. In fact I do enjoy that part of the challenge of the game mode. It's not ALL bad. I really cannot fathom, why you lot seem to want to imply that I want the rewards, without doing anything. Did... did you think that it was in some silly way that I couldn't do it or something? lol... Yeahhhh... I just don't want to be forced to use S#&$ I don't want to. It's taking away my choice, my agency, pigeonholing me and calling it a challenge. In order to artificially inflate a system in terms of so called "difficulty" when all it actually ends up doing, is being irksome and unfun, though as I keep saying, it's far from irredeemable. Also nobody here at least, has claimed that anything in warframe is mandatory. Playing warframe itself, is not in any way mandatory if you want to go down that route. If someone is holding a gun to your head and doing so. You've bigger problems than people disagreeing on the systems of EDA. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. But it's like the old joke and it's a joke because it's LITERAL absurdist comedy. "Went to the doctor the other day, told him I had my arm broken in three places. He told me to stay away from those places" Stop being absurd.

Isn't EVERY piece of content in a video game optional, there's nobody holding a gun to our heads telling us to warframe faster, at least I hope not. Do you need help friend, blink twice to signal maybe? 🙄 "This content SUCKS" "Well... it's optional" Nobody said it was mandatory, they're saying it SUCKS. Because it SUCKS... and people are working around the primary aspect of it, which people are saying is directly WHY, that it SUCKS. Negating the whole intended POINT of the so called "challenge" aspect of the system. Good point on the netracel drop table aspect though, perhaps that's ANOTHER aspect which should be addressed if that's correct.

None of those are all that bad and CAN EASILY be built around. They offer some nice challenges in of themselves in doing so. However, being stuck using S#&$frames and awful weapons that are insanely outdated, or have only VERY niche builds that even then barely work. Then even with a "flex" slot by not going for the final EDA vosfor reward, which is totally fine as it's an insanely CRAP reward. It's STILL gonna be hampered, by the RNG loadout crap with no mitigation of it outside of carries. Here's my viewpoint, my take on this, in a nutshell. I want to push to completion, right up to the hardest content. As much as I can in a day. I no-life this game regularly as I have the time free to do so, right now. EDA is basically: "Use these negative modifiers, against enemies, who have their postive own modifiers. These are new increasingly dangerous aspects you have to play around and adapt to" I think THAT is good challenge, in of itself. Cool. Nice challenge against tough unique enemies with fun modifiers I have to play around. I can even repeat it if I want the challenge after getting the weekly rewards. Challenge enjoyers rejoice! Here's where it goes utterly wrong: "Do as above, but also for worthwhile rewards for beating this challenge, you have to ALSO use randomly assigned S#&$frames and weapons, from a massive pool of weapons most of which are "mastery fodder" unless you go absolutely nuts. Building around them in particular. Praying to RNGesus, that you don't get screwed over making the weekly run useless or tedious. Unless you of course, you... just get a carry. Which is what people are doing... Finding the obvious workaround and carrying each other for maximal rewards. Wanna pug it? Yer gonna have a BAD time. Here's my options this week: Loki, ember, valkyr. = Guess that's my flex slot, this week... Only have loki anyways, the others are dog muck essentially. Onos, angrtrum, strug = Onos isn't that bad I guess. Secondary focus it is. Nikana, obex, ghoulsaw. = I have dex nikana at least. Won't be using melee though. Now, let's see what might be useful as the flex, perhaps dante like last week? Overguard is great and all tha... oh... Commanding culverins... 5x damage to overguard... I'll find a workaround or just carry and get carried bypassing the system that IS actually challenging to me and interesting, but the RNG loadout stuff? it's not a challenge to me. It's just a dismal pain in the backside that is being directly circuvented. Fuggin ghoulsaw... Valkyr... Ember... what awful crap this is. Oh I can use a kuva ogris, that I haven't finished building. You know... in the post aoe ammo nerf meta... It's just ALL so stupid. Duviri should have shown them if they want this RNG loadout stuff, then there's concessions they have to make to stop it being anti-fun nonsense. It doesn't fit a "weekly activity you do" it fits a spammable game-mode with elevated constant rewards that you can increase, by adding modifiers. Shortening your time invested. Also, if you waste your charges, you're down 2 netracell runs which are themselves, a doddle. So you WILL look for a carry. That can lead to some interesting issues in a game, which is NOTHING new to mmo's. Then, you get people... BAFFLINGLY coming on here and such. Stating "No one is holding a gun to your head to do it" as if that was ever the case in ANY video game I don't have to log on and play at all either. That doesn't exactly say or mean much at all of substance in regards the contentious issues of the game-mode. Is this to be, considered perhaps an RNG based "treat" in terms of content? One that MIGHT be acceptable to run legitimately, every few weeks? That is IF the RNG gods smile on you? Don't you think that's a bit... pointless... Meanwhile, because people like me, think this RNG loadout stuff is merely a bad part of a mode, on top of what has some great aspects in terms of challenge and difficulty. Considering it easily salvageable as a game-mode IF you remove that part OR alter the way it works as a weekly. Those same people, that claim to be "all about that challenge" come out with THAT sort of borderline trolling nonsense. "It's infantile greed" REALLY? It's infantile, to point out flaws in heavily RNG based systems when it comes to content. You don't see people complaining all that much about RNG loot tables (though they do a little). You don't see them complaining about crit chance (except we can never have enough lol), hell even duviri while annoying can be easily mitigated with some banging your head off of the RNG wall. Bypassing the S#&$ty loadouts of the loaners. So what's different here? I'll tell you what, It's the games weekly current progression, is tied to this RNG aspect of a system that's just NOT that popular. Optimising getting those rewards, is 90% of warframe. That's PART of the challenge. Then, they introduce "challenging" content. But stupidly force you into using crap gear, you don't want to or miss out because what's the point if you're NEVER progressing optimally? The point of the game. You'd almost be probably better off running netracells, but the rewards ARE worth it. Particularly IF you play AROUND the system by using carries. Then when OP suggests moving the rewards away because it's "all about that challenge" as some keep coping with as a response. people accuse them of infantile greed... on PROGRESSION content. Methinks, you're talking nonsense out of self interest yourself mate. Selling carries or something? lol...

Agreed 100% I want this change, because it will force, once and for all. Those that claim to do this for what they nebulously claim to be driven by as you've noted, an insanely ill or not at all defined claim of having subjective "fun" and that. coming out with weird statements such as "the gameplay itself IS the reward" and such. To put their money where their mouth is. I want the gauntlet thrown at their feet and to prove it. About these sorts of claims though. I'll state fairly, if they are being made HONESTLY, then I consider them to be fine. However if they are NOT being made honestly, it seems to me at least like they're being made out of wilful blindness and amounts to nothing more. Than pure and utter cope, fanboyism towards the devs seeing them as infallible and running defence for the flawed system which mimicks flawed another system, which I'll get to in a bit, but without the obviously intended mitigating factors AGAINST the RNG elements, that often prove to be time wastes and not much else... Duviri. So, like you. I want them to prove it, I will NOT begrudge them having this fun little challenge mode in the game on any level in of itself. Thus, with this well proposed change. It will give them the direct opportunity to... Put their preferences for challenge and their popularity, to a real acid test. To forego power progression in the pursuit of "prestige among their fellow players" to seek "personal fun derived from "challenging" content and the bragging rights" of completing it etc. IF that's truly their thing then I have no problem then. After all, who am I to tell them that they can't enjoy that? The grinch that tried to steal challenge mode from those seeking it? Would be a bit silly to be honest. I think that it's ok to have a niche or less than widespread agreed upon reason to play Warframe and an optional game mode for that. Fashionframe is endgame for a lot of people after all. It's not just a meme, or a joke. It simply IS for a lot of players. So, if they want their niche catered to, let's do it properly. By removing the contentious element, driven by the power progression based rewards. the point of contention that exists clearly between the types of players seeking progression and personal power and efficacy increases and, the (RNG) challenge/difficulty seekers. Then I think it's the correct way to go about this. We're only in disagreement, because of the carrot vs the stick element. the carrot is nice and it's the kind of things we're after more readily now, the stick however. Is ridiculous and RNG reliant trash to me. Eggregrious reliance on RNG related "difficulty" when it comes to progression rewarding content, is NOT good gameplay design in my opinion and it's not a lone sentiment or stance. I don't think it ever will be considered by many, to be anything other than a poor usage of RNG by many, it's simply a design crutch when it gets taken too far. Also, don't in any way expect me to think you're a badass, because you rolled better on your "lot in the system" this week and got something workable with what you have. That's the ILLUSION of overcoming a challenge, not an ACTUAL well designed challenge. It's not without ANY merit, granted. However, it's simply not as amazing afeat, as some seem to like and want others to think it is. The RNG aspect DIMINISHES the accomplishment, by virtue of luck. Not skill and, to be blunt. I respect skill, NOT luck. I guarantee you however, that IF you remove the aspect of progression rewards, which is a HUGE factor in the core aspects of all games, particularly warframe. Because it's literally BUILT around it. That an already niche and growingly unpopular, deeply flawed game mode, that is basically as I've pointed out "duviri circuit" only with even more unique issues and one hilarious obvious workaround in terms of teamplay if you coordinate with carries. One that also suffers, from being sans the ANOTHER intended mitigating factor of Duviri, such as failure or completion and quitting after one round, resetting the randomised loadouts... an aspect of which is a saving grace of sorts but a sign that the system had limitations and, that they already KNEW that it did... This change, will actually afford the game mode and claims about its popularity. To be given the chance, to show it's ACTUAL value and do so, beyond ALL reasonable doubt. Let's actually put this to the test properly... I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong if it turns out other than I expect. I honestly believe, that though I and others could indeed be wrong, that the game mode minus the progression rewards. Will no longer have any kind of draw to it for most progress oriented players, it won't have anything to offer, nothing to entice players onto the weekly locked, RNG torture rack along with the challenge seekers. I predict personally, it will be, just not only as unpopular and complained about as it is by a large amount of players. But instead, dead within let's say... a month or, considered on life support. Another system, that failed as current content, due to an over-reliance on time gates, limitations or RNG. All of which are fine, in moderation. But again, HAVE their limitations. At that point. It will perhaps be realistically. Something you might see ONLY see, being popularly revisited later on, when we have some other way to supercharge our power output in a way that interacts with the system and, in a mitigating fashion that combats the RNG element retroactively. For example: New mods or types of mods, augments or even mechanics and such. Basically the power creep will retroactively "fix" the flawed game mode. But long after it's really relevant content for progression...