Tie MR to solo spawn numbers

[tastic]

With a high MR we pretty much have a powerful frame when its level 0 with 40+ points to use and can steam roll over most content since you made solo easier for lower MR's and new players its now painfully easy for anyone with a high MR in missions due to lack of spawns when trying to farm resources or level weapons with a booster running.

eg atm i am levelling a few AW weapons and run either the corpus sabotage on Jupiter or Grineer extermination on Mars,  both previously had significant more mobs spawn than they do currently in there nurfed state.  Now with the changes I am lucky to get more than 2 weapon levels if I focus on either melee or ranged kills and can at times go a full minute flying looking for a mob to kill

/food bowl held out "more please"

[Guest]

I don't know. MR doesn't mean skill.

Warframe's always played more efficiently in a team, and I think that's a good thing. Also, Mobile Defense (in Neptune or Pluto) is much better to level AW gear.

[Spac3Ac3]

Actually defense on Ceris or Luna moon is really good xp and no shortage of NPCs. And you get way more levels than two. 

 

SPAC3AC3 

[Himenoinu]

The spawn numbers in solo missions is pathetic indeed. I get anywhere between 25 and 60 in capture missions. Mobs just stop spawning 1 room past the target and target no longer runs away, but rather spins around like a fart in the pants. Under 60 mobs in spy missions, under 100 (not counting the lucky runs) 80 in sabotage... What's this supposed to mean?! Did the tennos scared all the factions beyond the point where they'd at least pretend to put up a fight?

Bad for leveling anything, bad for syndicate missions (when you actually work on more than a pair), bad for pretty much anything and everything... 're we supposed to just cheese the life out of ESO and Hydron for leveling gear?! Can't we... like... not treadmill everything in the same areas and still enjoy the random other stuff that there could be done?

I ran with my Nekros around 40+ missions - incursions, syndicate missions, alerts, invasions and void fissures and, if it wasn't for the fissures, he would not have been higher than lvl 15. So I guess level 22 is quite an achievement for playing the game, innit?! Why DE?! Why 20 minutes in SO is more rewarding than actually playing the game? ._.

[peterc3]

24 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

The spawn numbers in solo missions is pathetic indeed. I get anywhere between 25 and 60 in capture missions. Mobs just stop spawning 1 room past the target and target no longer runs away, but rather spins around like a fart in the pants.

Then there appears to be a problem with what you're playing, because I have never once seen a Capture target not run. The point of Capture is to capture the target, not be an endless exterminate mission with a choose-your-own extract time.

26 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

Under 60 mobs in spy missions

Again, not the point of the mode. Kill everything in stealth and not trip any of the vault alarms and these should be pretty good XP.

29 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

bad for syndicate missions

The point of Syndicate missions is really the medallions. Beyond that, how is it bad for them to not have tons of spawns in Solo?

This is, first and foremost, a co-op game. You will get the best experience in a squad with other players.

[Himenoinu]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Then there appears to be a problem with what you're playing, because I have never once seen a Capture target not run.

3 syndicate capture missions today, 2 grineer and 1 corpus. The npcs were headless chicken'ing around their spawning room long enough to wear them down by just shouting at them. And no, I wasn't using abilities nor a Plasmor or similar murderous weapons. I was pokin' them with a Rakta Ballistica without aiming.

I remember my first few lith capture missions. The npc was quite agile running away from me and the amount of enemies spawning was way higher than 25. Actually, before taking a lil break a couple of months ago, I was able to balance out Perrin/Hexis capture missions from the kills alone (those and literally everything except the defense/interception), to the point where all syndicates were on +1k standings at the end.

8 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The point of Capture is to capture the target, not be an endless exterminate mission with a choose-your-own extract time.

Then they should just put the target at extraction and call it a mission. Also.. "endless exterminate?!" bwuhahahah! You cannot be referencing that mission type that has you run all the way to extraction before spawning some mobs for you to meet your quota...

Also also, maybe. But after you capture the target running through the remaining of the mission area without even catching a fly is downright stupid. Especially when your target spawns 100m away from insertion and extraction is at some 4-500m. You see no flaw there, right?! 'Cause the sole purpose of any professional WF player is to get every mission done in under 15".

12 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Kill everything in stealth and not trip any of the vault alarms and these should be pretty good XP.

It isn't. I'm not comparing it with not sitting in my orbiter, otherwise it would be. I'm also not comparing it with doing 1 zone of SO, 'cause then it definitely wouldn't be. I'm comparing it with running the same mission type a while ago.

 

9 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Again, not the point of the mode.

I forgot to mention that I always trigger the alarms on all missions that have one available to be triggered, precisely for this purpose of having more enemies spawn.

 

14 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The point of Syndicate missions is really the medallions.

The point of missions are the missions, not reaching extraction. If there's absolutely no challenge to be had, because solo mode is too dangerous to spawn mobs, then there's no point.

15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This is, first and foremost, a co-op game. You will get the best experience in a squad with other players.

I will, right?! When some just rush the extraction before we find the medallions. When some just aoe the map so I can just tag alone like a tin can behind a newly-wed couple's car. Wait! You were talking about affinity, not experience as "enjoying the game". Got it!

Also, if this is what you call a co-op game... I'd like to ask you, in particularly which way are you cooperating with a Saryn in ESO, or with a Volt. Or with an Equinox or Ember in run-of-the-mill missions? I see... HAHA! I'm guessing you're gonna invite me to play solo if I don't like that, right?! 😄

This is a looter-shooter game too. It's not much of a shooter if there's nothing to shoot at. Not that much of a looter either, for the very same reason - maybe at best a "smash the crate" simulator.

Mobs that don't spawn on alarms, mobs that spawn and stay put in their room when an alarm is raised, mobs that just don't spawn at all, making the whole map deserted and mobs that run away, take cover and forget why they're there. On top of that, a bloody faction that has its strength in its numbers that wiped a whole corpus ship with 40 chargers and runners. Mhm. Much danger, very infested!

Hell! even survival missions barely generate enough enemies to keep the life support stable while playing solo on Nekros. I literally don't understand neither why you would defend this game setting or how are you imagining it to be fun at all. And btw, survival in a pug is not even in the same zip code as co-op, when every player is in one random corner of the map, getting zilch affinity and - in syndicate missions - forgetting to mark the medallions.

Meh... DE probably won't make any changes to this setting, so as to not make the life of all the Lato Vandal fans miserable. All them trailers though, with the warframes going against impossible odds... (and no, not the Valkyr trailer that actually has a whole team in it). Hydroid prime trailer should contain no enemies at all, if the frame is shown alone. Just beaches, waves crashing against the shore... Serenity!

[Zyneris]

Let's take the entire MR discussion out of this and I'll agree that spawn rates should be increased just a twinge for solo play. That being said, it is a team game so I can't argue with facts.

In that idea, just go Hydron, Sedna and get max rank after 20 waves. That, Mot, or any Axi/Neo endless fissure are great places to level up. Even ESO if you don't mind Saryn.

Plenty of options for leveling without much frustration worries from teammates.

[Himenoinu]

13 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

Plenty of options for leveling without much frustration worries from teammates.

Because the whole purpose of Warframe is to have you sit on your buttocks and see the progress bar of your frame/weapon filling up 30 times. Such excitement to be had.

Also, you know that usually you look for a team when the difficulty is too high for you to solo, not too low. There isn't a single instance or dungeon in any game that I can think of that worked like that. Every difficult team-mission though was a challenge for veterans trying to beat it in the shortest time possible or with the smallest, highly specialized team.

Empty hallways take the fun out of speed-clearing anything.

Also, your suggestion shrinks down a huge map to a handful of locations (obviously going to ignore the ESO suggestion for the obvious reason of not being a fun place to go to when you're not lookin' to just max out your frame or focus for the day). Based on it, I'd say DE should just remove everything with the exception of Hydron, Mot and ESO. Seeing the first 2 are endless missions, there's always going to be a fissure there.

Plenty of options for playing Warframe, wouldn't you agree?! And guess what! you wouldn't need to worry about frustration caused by teammates either, because no one would be all that thrilled by this plethora of options 😉

Edit: I do agree with your initial statement, that MR has nothing to do with mobs count. They should overwhelm us regardless of MR. MR should maybe just dictate their level - to the point where MR 25 would have Mercury missions filled with level 150 grineer, all armed to the teeth.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Himenoinu

[Zyneris]

2 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

Because the whole purpose of Warframe is to have you sit on your buttocks and see the progress bar of your frame/weapon filling up 30 times. Such excitement to be had.

Also, you know that usually you look for a team when the difficulty is too high for you to solo, not too low. There isn't a single instance or dungeon in any game that I can think of that worked like that. Every difficult team-mission though was a challenge for veterans trying to beat it in the shortest time possible or with the smallest, highly specialized team.

Empty hallways take the fun out of speed-clearing anything.

Also, your suggestion shrinks down a huge map to a handful of locations (obviously going to ignore the ESO suggestion for the obvious reason of not being a fun place to go to when you're not lookin' to just max out your frame or focus for the day). Based on it, I'd say DE should just remove everything with the exception of Hydron, Mot and ESO. Seeing the first 2 are endless missions, there's always going to be a fissure there.

Plenty of options for playing Warframe, wouldn't you agree?! And guess what! you wouldn't need to worry about frustration caused by teammates either, because no one would be all that thrilled by this plethora of options 😉

 

Are you ok?

The first line of post agrees with OP on the point of not including MR as a baseline. Yes, I'd be perfectly happy with the increase of spawns of ANY mission type (does this clarify my agreement enough?)

That being said, I further mention the examples of ways OP can level up quickly without much headache as they clearly would rather solo missions than play with others. It's an acceptable viewpoint, but in the current state of the game if OP is looking for quick ways to level, I'm going offer so they aren't having the run the same exterminate mission over and over.

And yes, there are plenty of options depending on what you want to do and how much time you're willing to put in. 

And if you have such an issue with Warframe, why play? It's a grind regardless if it's for levels or resources. Even the Devs have admitted to that. It's an MMO version of a collectathon. You can't expected to be wowed every time you go and perform that grind, let's be reasonable here. I've agreed more than once that we need true endgame because the grind isn't enough. But I don't expect the grind to wow me each time I go and do it.

[Himenoinu]

14 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

I further mention the examples of ways OP can level up quickly without much headache as they clearly would rather solo missions than play with others. It's an acceptable viewpoint, but in the current state of the game if OP is looking for quick ways to level, I'm going offer so they aren't having the run the same exterminate mission over and over.

It doesn't really look like the OP is just getting his/her feet wet with WF, but rather look for alternative ways of grinding that don't include the usual spots. The options for just leveling are obvious. The ones for doing it with a lil added benefit on the side are also obviously the ones you mentioned. Now, to ignore the grind a bit, people that don't have everything maxed and built might try to mix&match - e.g. running sabotage on corpus planets looking for caches and reinforced containers too.

27 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

And yes, there are plenty of options depending on what you want to do and how much time you're willing to put in.

Not here there aren't:

56 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

just go Hydron, Sedna and get max rank after 20 waves. That, Mot, or any Axi/Neo endless fissure are great places to level up. Even ESO if you don't mind Saryn.

Plenty of options for leveling without much frustration worries from teammates. 

"Plenty of options" boil down to 3: Hydron, Mot and ESO (if you don't mind Saryn) - as both Hydron and Mot are fissure-able endless missions 😄

 

Options for playing the game however are countless, but without the need to level something or farm for something, there's virtually no point going anywhere more than 1 time.

As it is, farming something is what you do in syndicate missions - both standings and medallions. As it is, leveling more weapons after you unlocked all is "something to do in the game" when game offers nothing to do. I'd rather not run the same ol' 3 "plenty of options" options some more after I chewed through every piece of gear I could get my hand on, wouldn't you agree?! That is, I'd rather do something else, that is - after all - marginally more fun than the 3 "plenty of options" 😄

 

26 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

And if you have such an issue with Warframe, why play?

My issue is not with the game itself, I think. And I definitely don't have an issue with its grindiness. I'd say my issue has to do with how people see the game and - as a result - the things DE seems to focus on. Each time anything related to affinity is brought up, the answers feel almost automated: Hydron or ESO. And the topic doesn't always have to do with pure efficiency.

Another example: I can run one ESO with a sigil on and max out my syndicate standings for the day. But I want to actually feel... let's say I would like to roleplay a bit, to feel like I'm trying to keep a balance between the syndicates I'm currently aligned with - and it wasn't impossible before, keepin' them all on positive standings at the end of a mission, because there was enough affinity to be gained through a solo run (at my own pace).

Long story short, I don't like the direction the players are seemingly aiming at: "Gib more gear to level up and gib places to do it faster and effortlessly"

[Zyneris]

24 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

-snip-

Examples are not synonymous with options. I GAVE examples, however, there are other options should OP like to pursue them. Akkad, Hieracon (get endo AND cryoptic), Ophelia (farm that CO while you're at it), Gabii (need orokin cells but don't want to do a lot of work for them, no problem), Io (Meso relics can be in short supply sometimes), Ani (low level void if you don't like Mot), do I need to go on? 

Until OP steps in and corrects, don't speak for them. I've given some ideas based on what I read, you can't auto assume for OP. If the OP isn't looking for that info, great they will bypass me and move on to the next comment. Easy enough. Just because YOU don't find it helpful, doesn't mean others don't as well.

And finally your last part is another assumption. I'm not using an automated response because I feel DE shouldn't address this. I'm giving OP solutions to address their dissent with trying to level being solo as it would seem they don't enjoy running with others for one reason or another - all of my examples can be run solo and/or with a group without much headache. Again, if OP doesn't like those options, no problem. For the 3rd time, I agree. Spawns should be updated so other missions can be run instead of the same usual spots. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Zyneris

[tastic]

Its simple the number of mobs in solo missions have been dumbed down to the point its almost not worth bothering with them, then why have them remove them.  This change is fairly recent to cater for the casual player, I am not a casual player but I also do not follow the party line you will leech affinity on X defence node, I work for my affinity as its boring otherwise.

Now this change would not affect the casual player at all, as they gain MR levels they also gain the better mods and weapons to make the missions a breeze solo, but to the point of boring that it has become

[Himenoinu]

3 minutes ago, tastic said:

This change is fairly recent to cater for the casual player,

Who will get taxi'ed to Hydron or wherever else anyway as it seems that following the normal, long route is not cool. So this change is benefiting no one. Casuals and new players will usually want to catch up with the rest in the shortest time frame possible.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most players - be they casuals, new or with some time spent in the Origin System - walking 1 km through a completely deserted facility is a thrilling experience, one that they'll be looking forward to repeat.

I completely understand that not all missions are supposed to behave as a Survival one, with a constant flow of enemies (which, btw, does not really provide that - and in this case it's actually not helping anyone, with them life supports being few and far between), but there's absolutely no logic behind having nothing between the point where the objective has been completed all the way to extraction. As a really fresh example, the only 3 enemies I've met in that kilometer mentioned above from the room I captured a target in were 3 arc traps.

I propose - you know, to make things more smooth and more obviously dumb - to just extract the player on the spot where he or she has completed the mission's goal. Save everyone the boredom of navigating through a whole lot of nothing.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

3 syndicate capture missions today, 2 grineer and 1 corpus. The npcs were headless chicken'ing around their spawning room long enough to wear them down by just shouting at them. And no, I wasn't using abilities nor a Plasmor or similar murderous weapons. I was pokin' them with a Rakta Ballistica without aiming.

I remember my first few lith capture missions. The npc was quite agile running away from me and the amount of enemies spawning was way higher than 25. Actually, before taking a lil break a couple of months ago, I was able to balance out Perrin/Hexis capture missions from the kills alone (those and literally everything except the defense/interception), to the point where all syndicates were on +1k standings at the end.

Capture missions were adjusted a few weeks ago to spawn a limited amount of enemies, since Capture missions are not supposed to be played as an endless mission.

18 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

Why 20 minutes in SO is more rewarding than actually playing the game?

SO is part of the game .-.
The problem with SO is that (for some reason) DE didn't balance efficiency drain/enemy spawning in it to different numbers of players in the match, like they do in any other mission. So, a 1-man squad gets the same amount of enemies as a 4-man squad there.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Guest

[Himenoinu]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)iQuedas said:

Capture missions were adjusted a few weeks ago to spawn a limited amount of enemies, since Capture missions are not supposed to be played as an endless mission.

SO is part of the game .-.
The problem with SO is that (for some reason) DE didn't balance efficiency drain/enemy spawning in it to different numbers of players in the match, like they do in any other mission. So, a 1-man squad gets the same amount of enemies as a 4-man squad there.

For the former. They weren't adjusted, but drained. Not a single enemy spawning past the capture room is not "adjustment". Not when you'd still have medallions to look for, or maybe reinforced containers, sculptures or whatnot. From actually having a whole base with some form of patrols or guards to having a deserted facility there's quite a leap. And the difference between the moments right before the capture and what happens in the next room is... silly to put it mildly.

SO is tacked on to the game to cater to focus farming needs of some of us, nothing else. If that would've been either the DS or the trails replacement as they were hinting at some point, there would not have been enough rotten tomatoes in the world to toss at it.

DE didn't balance jack-poop in SO. from how efficiency drains regardless of the # of players to how out of 30+ frames a few can /faceroll it. To the basic "story" behind it and the mechanics used!...wait. what mechanics?!

Oh and the godly rewards you get from there, all the 100001 copies of a captura scene and the godly Lato Vandal. Nothing regarding it is balanced or well thought of, but the biggest issue I have is how it has become the go-to spot for everything affinity related.

Like I was saying earlier, if that's what both DE and the community wants, then DE should just remove every other mission outpost and mission type, and just leave Hydron and ESO and call it a game. Both parties' focus on efficiency at the cost of fun baffles me. And while Skinner Boxes are the go-to mechanic when you don't know what to do, I don't really like to look in the mirror and see a pigeon there...