Can we get an Auction House, Please?

[Zi-Sui]

On 2018-10-16 at 11:35 PM, GnarlsDarkley said:

Imagine you set up 20 items. They are all sold over night. You claim your Plat. You spend it. 2 weeks later you are banned for negative plat.

If you are smart enough to not spend it, you still would have no proof where and when you got it from and what items you are missing. 

With its current method you can file a ticket and get at least your items back

This has got to be the best reason to not implement auction house I've seen, and I don't think I have a good counter for that. You could always stop people from refunding, that would be both good and bad since refunding is known to be used for scams, but it would be bad for those who honestly suddenly need a refund. But there's insurance for things suddenly breaking up so I don't see why we have a refund mechanism in the first place, other than being able to try something out and then discarding it and getting refunded because you didn't like it.

So if it's not something legal, I'd want to hear reasons why there needs to be a refunding system in place.

[(PSN)kurokuma80]

6 hours ago, (PS4)calvin_0 said:

no..

 

The statement "No" doesn't make a proper counter argument.

[Fenrir121]

I'm really surprised by the amount of negative response to this idea. Its already basically implemented by various websites and features its just a colossal pain in the ass that discourages people playing long term. I'm tired of spending more time farming for plat than anything else in this game.

[Cuchullin]

It's not so much the negative content as the one word answers with no context on their reasoning. As for the websites I think the original intent of this post was to suggest an actual auction house type deal into the game itself or an auto sell for plat function. It's not that I disagree with the original statement of the trade chat text flying by almost too fast to read it's the implementation and regulation that would be problematic.

To be honest it can be  problem in the current setup too although with Warframe being a free to play game with a massive player base I can understand that it's the best that could have been come up with at the time, to say nothing of the business side of this where the company would prefer the player to invest as much money as possible. Personally I'm just glad DE has a means of getting plat in game without having to buy it every time.

[Fenrir121]

The thing is someone still has to buy plat. No matter what system is implemented. There are very few ways to get plat without trading or buying and that means that someone, somewhere, has to buy the plat that exists.

[Cuchullin]

True but I imagine that a lot of people will invest at least a little in the beginning when their starting out an as they progress and get more familiar with the game will use the discount parts to top up what they need. I'm not saying it's a perfect system by any means but it could be a lot worse. And I've heard players in the community have bought plat in support of FE's work, I know I have.

[Wind_Blade]

It's dons't work because if the website work it's because they work only when players are ingame and open the website .. if the auction house allow to put oofer when the player are online even when he do mission or even worse offlin every prices will fall (so no even in online only it's will suck)

[Fenrir121]

2 minutes ago, Wind_Blade said:

It's dons't work because if the website work it's because they work only when players are ingame and open the website .. if the auction house allow to put oofer when the player are online even when he do mission or even worse offlin every prices will fall (so no even in online only it's will suck)

Not even remotely true. Purchase prices for plat don't change on either end.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Fenrir121
clarification

[Wind_Blade]

il y a 4 minutes, Fenrir121 a dit :

Not even remotely true. Purchase prices for plat don't change on either end.

Whut .. did you know something called supplies and demans.. if auction house is comming the supplies will go higher than the demans and naturaly every prices will fall down, newbie will have no way to gain platinum and rich players will make even more platinum because they will monopolise the entre are items auction

It's not a speculation we already come into this conclusion like 10k of time in each auction house topic.
It's not for nothing that DE still don't have implements an Auction house in  5 years, it's because they know it's will destroy the economy (and no it's not my arguments or way of thinking it's literraly what EVERY conclusion of theses auctions house topics.. just search "Auction House" in the research topics and you can find youserlf)

[Fenrir121]

Just now, Wind_Blade said:

Whut .. did you know something called supplies and demans.. if auction house is comming the supplies will go higher than the demans and naturaly every prices will fall down, newbie will have no way to gain platinum and rich players will make even more platinum because they will monopolise the entre are items auction

It's not a speculation we already come into this conclusion like 10k of time in each auction house topic.
It's not for nothing that DE still don't have implements an Auction house in  5 years, it's because they know it's will destroy the economy (and no it's not my arguments or way of thinking it's literraly what EVERY conclusion of theses auctions house topics.. just search "Auction House" in the research topics and you can find youserlf)

Other games have already done this. The supply or the demand doesn't change. All this does is facilitate easier access. DE doesn't change plat prices nor do they change the purchase prices of plat items. Your argument is invalid.

[Wind_Blade]

Lol my arguments is not invalid i litteraly say it's was not my arguments but lol

 

And the economy of warframe is really special it's not because it's work in another game it's will work here ... And no DE donesn't change plat prices .. so yea it's will be player.. What happend if actual 100 connected in website players sell ammo drum for 50-150 pl (yea it's just for the exemple) .. It's will stay arround the price because people will get offline and need to get the website on.

now if they are an auction house.. people will not need to open the website so they will more people that sell ammo drum.. and his price will go down because people will put the lower price to sell it faster and because their are more player that sell it it's will go down.. Without speaking that everyone that don't brother to sell little thing that newbie can sell to gain like 20 pl because it's anoying to use the website just for that will do it because it's will be more easy so the supplie wil increase and the price will drop again and newbie will have no chance against the veterans that have already everything and sell the same thing but in 10 exemplery and will have not their warframe/weapons slots.

 

Now imagine you can put your order offline ... NIGHTMARE

 

It's simple economy

[Fenrir121]

This is false. As DE sets the value of plat and it has a real world component plat prices do not change. This example literally means nothing. No warframes economy is not special. You can't claim its unique then say its simple. Someone has to buy that plat it doesn't generate in the game its supply does not change. If anything it would drive the demand for plat UP not down as it would be spent at a higher rate. Again someone has to buy that platinum and once its spent its gone it doesn't circulate. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Fenrir121

[Cuchullin]

@ Fenrir121 I think what you're talking about is the real world money to plat. What Wind_Blade is talking about is the use of plat in game to actually buy things. So if an item's (e.g. a Ash prime blueprint) asking price on trade chat was about 370 plat (guessing). A player can get that reasonably easily due to set plat prices with real world money. With an auction house a veteran can sell 10 Ash prime blueprints for cheaper because there can be several others doing the same thing. The real world money price of plat won't' change but the internal game price of the item in terms of plat will giving new players less chance to earn decent plat in game. This will require players to buy plat more which costs money and drive more people away then it will bring in in my opinion. Besides even in the trade chat we have now we have people willing to screw others over in trades and I imagine it'll be just as bad in an auction house.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Cuchullin

[Fenrir121]

There are still services in game that plat is purchased with and that plat is used up. As you said people already screw eachother over on trade and the websites. My point is an auction house does not add these problems because they already exist. All it does is speed up the process and make it less painful to farm for an almost required currency. I haven't played more than an hour of Fortuna honestly because I'm tired of spending more time trading than playing. I've been around since launch and every time something is added I have to buy more inventory slots and I'd imagine that as players get older this problem is going to start to magnify not everyone wants to grind then grind what they grinded so they can grind more.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Fenrir121

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

You think prices for rare stuff is high NOW and you want an auction house??  Who's got the Bingo card.....

[Fenrir121]

I'm really surprised at how many times I have to repeat the same information. People acting like this hasn't been done in any other game to give examples off of.

[Rakosta_Kai]

25 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

I'm really surprised at how many times I have to repeat the same information. People acting like this hasn't been done in any other game to give examples off of.

What game allowed players to barter with a premium currency in an auction house?

[KiraCastle]

This would literally bring me back to this game.

[Fenrir121]

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

What game allowed players to barter with a premium currency in an auction house?

https://www.gamesparks.com/blog/looking-at-in-game-currencies/

Has a few sources for some ingame trading.

https://hackernoon.com/real-money-trading-in-games-a-cryptocurrency-solution-5fdc719cc4f6

Mostly fluff but has some examples. Eve is a big example. I mean take your pick man a quick google search might help answer that question for you. There's a few Reddit posts that go into deep analysis on it. Either way. No argument has really been presented that proves this would be a bad thing.

 

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

https://www.gamesparks.com/blog/looking-at-in-game-currencies/

Doesn't address this economy at all.

5 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

Has a few sources for some ingame trading.

https://hackernoon.com/real-money-trading-in-games-a-cryptocurrency-solution-5fdc719cc4f6

I don't play TF2 but my understanding was they removed this option due to unwelcome scrutiny...Still wasn't that skins and what not sold on the steam market?...Or was that DOTA2?

...I seem to recall Diablo trying it and quitting the process as well.

Eve definitely didn't used to allow this officially...perhaps something has changed here.

The rest of this article makes mention of games that clearly do not allow this and edges itself into black market discussions on how it could.

In fact, most of the stuff you mentioned that I could "just look up" actually references examples that would likely be against the games TOS.

...So my question still stands.

"What game allowed players to barter with a premium currency in an auction house?"

The closest I've ever seen come (up to Warframe) to this is allowing players to exchange premium currency for in-game currencies. 

For my part, I can think of a few good reasons for why I would think it's a bad idea...But anything I can think up runs a distant second to relevant examples and working models from games that actually did it.

That said, if you know the name of a game that actually did this and is still doing so I'd be obliged to know it because one doesn't come to mind.

 

[Fenrir121]

5 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Doesn't address this economy at all.

I don't play TF2 but my understanding was they removed this option due to unwelcome scrutiny...Still wasn't that skins and what not sold on the steam market?...Or was that DOTA2?

...I seem to recall Diablo trying it and quitting the process as well.

Eve definitely didn't used to allow this officially...perhaps something has changed here.

The rest of this article makes mention of games that clearly do not allow this and edges itself into black market discussions on how it could.

In fact, most of the stuff you mentioned that I could "just look up" actually references examples that would likely be against the games TOS.

...So my question still stands.

"What game allowed players to barter with a premium currency in an auction house?"

The closest I've ever seen come (up to Warframe) to this is allowing players to exchange premium currency for in-game currencies. 

For my part, I can think of a few good reasons for why I would think it's a bad idea...But anything I can think up runs a distant second to relevant examples and working models from games that actually did it.

That said, if you know the name of a game that actually did this and is still doing so I'd be obliged to know it because one doesn't come to mind.

 

You didn't actually read the articles and sources then. Eve definitely allows it by the way. Diablo did a "Real money" auction house. There was no premium currency and not applicable anyway warframe doesn't use generated loot and Diablo doesn't have ingame services requiring real money.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Fenrir121

[Rakosta_Kai]

8 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

You didn't actually read the articles and sources then. Eve definitely allows it by the way. Diablo did a "Real money" auction house. There was no premium currency and not applicable anyway warframe doesn't use generated loot and Diablo doesn't have ingame services requiring real money.

Nope, if fact, I did read both articles...

They don't address this economy... Neither of them did.

In fact, the second article was so borderline shady I'm surprised you included it...No offense.

This game allows players to trade a "hard currency"(money) for a "soft" currency (plat), has no relevant in-game currency(w00t credits), and little in the way of measures to remove that soft currency(plat) from the game aside from slot costs and sporadic cosmetics.

Diablo nixed their program not long after they added the option to begin with.

Warframe has no relevant in-game currency to trade for as it has no value....Which leads me back to my question.

You say "Take your pick" which suggests there are many so name two.

25 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

"What game allowed players to barter with a premium currency in an auction house?"

By that I mean directly.

The closest I have seen is the Steam Community Market stuff...But that's not in-game.

Perhaps SWToR? been a minute since i played that game and last I recall it was CM loot boxes and items in the AH (or w/e it was called)...Essentially laundering real money for in-game acquirable currency (EVE, SWToR, WoW, GW2 are all doing this) letting players spend that premium currency on cosmetics, game time.

None of these fit Warframe though because they all have in-game currencies that are relevant. 

[Fenrir121]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

Nope, if fact, I did read both articles...

They don't address this economy... Neither of them did.

In fact, the second article was so borderline shady I'm surprised you included it...No offense.

This game allows players to trade a "hard currency"(money) for a "soft" currency (plat), has no relevant in-game currency(w00t credits), and little in the way of measures to remove that soft currency(plat) from the game aside from slot costs and sporadic cosmetics.

Diablo nixed their program not long after they added the option to begin with.

Warframe has no relevant in-game currency to trade for as it has no value....Which leads me back to my question.

You say "Take your pick" which suggests there are many so name two.

By that I mean directly.

The closest I have seen is the Steam Community Market stuff...But that's not in-game.

Perhaps SWToR? been a minute since i played that game and last I recall it was CM loot boxes and items in the AH (or w/e it was called)...Essentially laundering real money for in-game acquirable currency (EVE, SWToR, WoW, GW2 are all doing this) letting players spend that premium currency on cosmetics, game time.

None of these fit Warframe though because they all have in-game currencies that are relevant. 

"Can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

[Cuchullin]

From what I've read of your posts you've you've been saying that at least some people will have to buy the plat with real world money to get/keep the in game economy going. Fair enough this is a true point however the posts against the idea of an auction house are like this is because not every player can afford or want to spend massive amounts of real world money on a regular basis. This brings us to the actual use of plat in-game, not buying plat with real world money. With the trading system in place now there is a way for players to get plat without having to spend actual money, which while not ideal in it's execution allows for newer players to start earning reasonable amounts of plat.

If an auction house was put in place using and a veteran player has some prime parts to sell. If traditional auction house rules then newer players will quickly be out bid by players with more plat forcing the newer players to buy the plat they need (to say nothing of those players who will deliberately drive up the price). On the other end of the spectrum there will be players who see a demand for certain types of gear/parts will farm like crazy then flood the market driving down the price across the board or end up cornering the market.

11 hours ago, Fenrir121 said:

My point is an auction house does not add these problems because they already exist.

Yes this is true and by and large the community is pretty decent in my experience however if you provide an easier means for access to trading unless it's done in a way that doesn't make it worse it'll get easier to rip people off and the trading will in all likelihood go the way of Conclave where a few die hards will hang around.

It's all a moot point anyway seeing as DE is unlikely to go a full auction house anyway. I mean they pulled a micro-transaction because one player used it 200 times because it's unhealthy for players to play like this. If DE did that then you know they're going to be extremely careful with player money and the an auction house seems like a tricky system to balance, to say nothing of coding and implementing it.

[Rakosta_Kai]

8 hours ago, Fenrir121 said:

"Can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

Yes...Only the horse in this case (of course of course)...is you.

You said I could "take my pick" of games with an economy like ours that allowed premium currency trading via an auction house.

....Yet you can't name one.

You can't name one because there isn't one.

You say Warframe's economy isn't special or unique...Yet, you can't name an economy that mirrors it.

10 hours ago, Fenrir121 said:

I'm really surprised at how many times I have to repeat the same information. People acting like this hasn't been done in any other game to give examples off of.

Cool story bro...Name some games.

You gonna name Wildstar? wouldn't fit.

How 'bout Tera?...Nope.

Aion?...uh uh.

You want one reason why an Auction House won't work here?

I'll give you two....

1. Abandons the pretense of actual trade (items that aren't plat) as an option to barter and sidesteps daily trade limitations.

2. DE loses control over their own premium currency due to speculation...The exchange rate to purchase their currency doesn't actually fluctuate but it's value in-game does.

This is because there are limited methods of removing it from the economy (which is how value is assured)

Your idea de-values it long term.

So why would a player buy plat if the amount needed was astronomical? ...Short answer? They wouldn't. (cost to purchase plat never changed)

 

Now, I've no doubt you will say something to the effect of, "But this is already happening..." And you would be right.

...The problem is that your idea makes the issue worse.

At the end of the day, DE wants you buying plat as that's how they earn revenue...Your idea makes doing so the worst possible option.

So, unless your idea involves trade with Ducats or credits only, your idea is bad for this game.

 

...Enjoy your water.