How To Make Shotgun Crit Mods Viable Without Changing The Damage Output Of The Strun Wraith

[Kinethia]

It's not even as high priority as anti faction mods are...

 

That is incorrect. Anti-faction mods are only additive with other base damage mods like Blaze and Point blank. Critical mods are multiplicative with all other damage types.

 

EDIT: to clarify:

 

Cleanse Infested adds +30% damage.

 

Point blank and Blaze add a total of +150% damage.

 

Combining the two results in +180% damage. (for a total base damage of 280%)

 

Critical mods multiply base damage by 1.46

 

250% (base 100% + 150% for Point Blank and Blaze) x 1.46 = 365% (base 100% + 265%)

 

So the two critical mods combined add +115% more base damage in total, which in turn increases the damage dealt by all the elemental bonuses and multishot.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kinethia

[Tyrian3k]

That is incorrect. Anti-faction mods are only additive with other base damage mods like Blaze and Point blank. Critical mods are multiplicative with all other damage types.

 

Just ried that and I deal 154 damage with a latron prime with maxed serration and maxed bane of grineer against a medium grineer with a headshot.

45*2.65*1.3= 155

 

If it was additive, it would deal a maximum of 133 damage.

 

My point still stands.

[Kinethia]

Just ried that and I deal 154 damage with a latron prime with maxed serration and maxed bane of grineer against a medium grineer with a headshot.

45*2.65*1.3= 155

 

If it was additive, it would deal a maximum of 133 damage.

 

My point still stands.

 

Were you accounting for the fact that headshots have an extra damage multiplier?

 

If your calculation is correct, then the anti-faction mods are much more effective than I thought, and are worth equipping whenever possible, or at least are almost always superior to a second elemental damage mod (even one which deals +90%). Luckily, there was one more slot left on that shotgun build above.

 

Even so, best to double check your math by using the same build without the bane mod. (should deal 119 damage without it)

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kinethia

[Tyrian3k]

The damage without the bane mod is 119.

119*1.3=154.7

 

Sadly, you will likely want to add an elemental mod to your build after the armor change, so if that slot will stay free is not certain.

[Kinethia]

Sadly, you will likely want to add an elemental mod to your build after the armor change, so if that slot will stay free is not certain.

 

Blaze, Flechette, and Accelerated Blast are already dealing +210% elemental damage. A 30% increase which multiplies both augmented base damage and elemental damage would give a bigger boost than another +90% elemental damage possibly could, even on unarmoured targets.

 

For a total breakdown on the damage for this build:

 

22 (10 + 120%) pellets per shot, 61.75 (19 x 1.3 + 150%) base damage per pellet + 92.625 Armour Piercing + 37.05 Fire

 

38% crit chance, +180% damage on critical hit

 

Average total damage per shot 2287.714 base + 3431.571 Armour Piercing + 1372.6284 fire, or 7091.9134 damage altogether

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kinethia

[Tyrian3k]

Blaze, Flechette, and Accelerated Blast are already dealing +210% elemental damage. A 30% increase which multiplies both augmented base damage and elemental damage would give a bigger boost than another +90% elemental damage possibly could, even on unarmoured targets.

 

We'll have to wait for DE to change armor before we can say that for sure.

[Kinethia]

We'll have to wait for DE to change armor before we can say that for sure.

 

The faction mod boost works out to +93%, compared with an elemental mod's +90%. Unless the elemental damages are somehow amplified by armour after the update, it's pretty safe to say the faction mod wins.

[Tyrian3k]

The faction mod boost works out to +93%, compared with an elemental mod's +90%. Unless the elemental damages are somehow amplified by armour after the update, it's pretty safe to say the faction mod wins.

 

Did you account for the applied element having a multiplier of *2 (or maybe higher) on the enemy you use it against?

[Kinethia]

Did you account for the applied element having a multiplier of *2 (or maybe higher) on the enemy you use it against?

 

If an element deals more damage to the faction than armour piercing, it should replace the Flechette which was already in the build. In which case, the faction mod would deal even more damage (multiplicative, remember) meaning Flechette's +90% would no longer even come close to competing with it. In the extreme possiblity that armour piercing and another element (or any combination of two elements) both deal double damage to the faction, then the critical mods may lose their shine, but the faction mod still wouldn't.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kinethia

[taiiat]

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get into my bunker to escape the flamethrowers.

nah. your suggestion is very fireproof, because it's a real suggestion.

 

honestly, Strun Wraith already IS a crit shotgun. so further increasing this feature makes sense.

(if people don't want to use Strun Wraith for crits - well... that's what it's for.....already...)

 

 

I like yellow numbers so I'm up for that

lol'd

 

 

 

some people HATE weapon that can only do damage if and when they critical.

but they do exist, and those weapons all have extremely high Crit Chances (and damage) compared to their other counterparts.

if someone wants to use say, Lex or Vasto, but doesn't want to use them for crits, that's fine, it's their choice. but both of those weapons are clearly Crit weapons. 15% is massively higher than any other weapons in their categories. 

there are people that use Vasto and think they would prefer to not use Crit mods on it. *shrugs* that's fine, it's their choice. but honestly, Vasto is 'most effective' using Crit mods.

 

that being said, i'm not sure reducing SWraiths' damage is the best function of this. i do see that the Crit mods are oddly low compared to the other classes, but Shotguns can just have higher innate Crit stats, can't they?

it's another option.

Edited September 12, 2013 by taiiat

[LazyKnight]

 

but they do exist, and those weapons all have extremely high Crit Chances (and damage) compared to their other counterparts.

I was thinking of Grakata that can only* do damage when it critical and all other hits are weak damage. My issues is the fact that it takes 2 mod card slots and 18 points are required just to make critical builds viable. I really would prefer if DE axe the common version of the critical cards(blunderbuss, point strike, etc.) and roll the chance mod into the critical damage mod(ravage giving 90% chance and 60% damage for 12-18 points).

 

Multi shots mods costing 15 mods points are a far better deal for damage than critical mods are for anything other than sniper weapon. It is terrible that critical mods takes 2 slots and this makes something like a bane + random damage more economically viable for even weapons that have 10-15% critical chance.

Edited September 12, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Tyrian3k]

but they do exist, and those weapons all have extremely high Crit Chances (and damage) compared to their other counterparts.

if someone wants to use say, Lex or Vasto, but doesn't want to use them for crits, that's fine, it's their choice. but both of those weapons are clearly Crit weapons. 15% is massively higher than any other weapons in their categories. 

there are people that use Vasto and think they would prefer to not use Crit mods on it. *shrugs* that's fine, it's their choice. but honestly, Vasto is 'most effective' using Crit mods.

 

Well, applying both mods on the Vasto is a 36% damage difference. Barely more than using a faction mod.

 

that being said, i'm not sure reducing SWraiths' damage is the best function of this. i do see that the Crit mods are oddly low compared to the other classes, but Shotguns can just have higher innate Crit stats, can't they?

it's another option.

 

Among all primary and secondary weapons, the SW already has the second highest base crit stats.

 

Even if you push the crit chance and crit damage, the real point of this thread is buffing the mods so they make a good difference.