This Game Is Extremely Unrewarding At Times, And I Hope Things Change For The Better. I've Reached My Limit.

[demontrace]

I find myself at the last hours of my affinity booster. It was the only thing keeping me going. I find myself now wanting to quit, without even using up the last 4 hours. It's because of the nature of the game.

You find yourself compelled to craft new warframes, and new weapons, unfortunately the process is EXTREMELY unrewarding.

You really never know if when you kill a boss, if you'll get a blueprint. On top of that, you are expected to acquire 3 blueprints to make the warframe you desire. So basically, when you kill a boss, you MIGHT get a blueprint, and if you DO get a blueprint, you MIGHT get the one you actually need. Very often it comes down to farming a boss just to get that ONE final blueprint. The game comes down to chance to such a degree that it becomes EXTREMELY demoralizing. I have reached that point. My personal morale is SO LOW, I don't even care about the remaining 4 hours on my affinity booster. The game has stopped being a game, and is just work, with no reward. I can't play a game like that, I HAVE to quit. I might check in every now and then to see the state of the game, but the current boss/blueprint system seriously needs an overhaul. It doesn't suck player in, it just crushes their spirit.

I hear from people, oh I did a boss run 25 times to get my 3 blueprints, and those are the guys on the lucky end. One guy claims to have done a run almost 100 times to get his 3 blueprints. What about this seems acceptable to you DE? Do you not think your RNG percentages are a little low? Anyone with a life simply isn't going to have the time for this. You are competing against a number of games, and F2P is ALSO competing against a number of games. I feel the game needs to be more rewarding.

Now THAT is just the blueprints/boss system. You compound that against the resource acquisition part of the game. As it currently is, IF a resource drops, everybody has to run to that one point to acquire said resource. What if the player runs there, only to find no resource? Some kind of timer has ticked down, or maybe a bug, maybe lag, maybe anything, but the resource isn't acquired now. The player feels irritated because now they have been cheated out of the resource, when the ultimate in reward would be just 1 player grabbing the resource, maybe even the host, since he won't be facing the lag errors other players do, and ALL players acquiring the benefit of the resource.

This doesn't even take into consideration the fact that the most valuable resources, rubedo and alloy plate, have simply too low of drop rates.

Nothing like running to a resource you really need, and 1 second before you pick it up, it disappears, to give you no credit.

Another unrewarding feature, is if there is some kind of bug towards the end of the mission, or at any point during the mission, upon which your connection is lost somehow. Or a crash to desktop. You have now lost all progress made during the mission. I currently have the Frost systems, and the helmet. I have been trying to get the Frost chassis for some time. Irregardless of the terrible blueprint drop system, at one point I ACTUALLY won the Frost Chassis blueprint. Unfortunately at the end of the mission there was an error. The connection to the server/host was lost. Because of that, my Frost chassis blueprint was lost. After an unacceptable amount of runs, I had finally got my chassis blueprint, only to have it lost because of an error.

I would add to this, I have followed all guides to open ports, both on my windows 7 firewall, and my router itself. I am not on a wireless connection, but a wired one. I am the one who set up my network, and at the time, no one was connected to it, other than myself. I also have an Internet connection that would be considered fast, regardless of the fact that is a subjective term.

One more: The leveling of the mastery rank. Simply put, many of the weapons you have available are REALLY BAD. The burston, the lex, the mk1 braton, the lato, the skana, the dual skana, the strum, the furax, the sicarus, and the bolto. I understand those are MY opinions, but many of those weapons simply pale in comparison to other weapons. I personally find the AKlato to be godly. They are better than many pistols. Why bother with sicarus, or lato, when the AKlato is available? The Akbolto is better than the bolto. I find the Akfuris to be amazing even if they are an ammo hog. Then you take into consideration the primary weapons, and the melee weapons. There are so many superior choices over the inferior choices that you have to ask yourself, "Why do the inferior weapons exist, and why would I bother to level them?" Well for mastery of course!

Perhaps it was a mistake, but I decided to level the terrible weapons first, to leave myself the better weapons for later leveling. Some weapons are so fun to use, that it's a shame I left them for last, when my interest was finally fading. The Hek is an amazing gun. The gorgon is really fun. Many heavy melee weapons are quite enjoyable, including other melee weapons like Cronus, Scindo, Fragor, even Gram to a certain degree. The bronco was actually a surprise, and turned out quite good. Already mentioned, the Aklato, GREAT WEAPON. AKbolto has potential, same with Akfuris. So many well designed weapons, hampered by the terrible weapons. All for a mastery system.

It's understood you need to master weapons, and frames, to achieve a mastery ranking, but many of those weapons are SO tedious, that it sucks the fun out of the game. Now I am someone who leveled up many of those tedious weapons with an affinity booster. Imagine someone without the booster doing the same thing. It would take TWICE as long. I petered out on enthusiasm before the booster could run out, and I also consider myself someone with a decent amount of patience. Not record setting, but not abyssmal either. I couldn't hang with the current system. Imagine someone with less patience.

Now you may wonder why am I writing all this, when I'm clearly throwing in the towel? Because I liked this game so much initially, and find so much potential in the game. This game could be one of the top games. It has the makings of a game people would love to sink time into. Even after acquiring every weapon and frame you wanted, leveling them up to their max level, and achieving the cap on mastery, the game has the potential to be one that you return to, just because you enjoy the combat, and the people you group with. Unfortunately I don't feel the game has reached that point. So many systems are simply unrewarding, that spending more time with the game, leaves you with this feeling that you're being cheated out of you time. That you aren't being rewarded enough.

Granted, I've reached this point after the umpteenth boss run. The fact that bosses are so important to your continued progress is an obvious flaw in the system. To sum it up, boss drop rates need to be increased SUBSTANTIALLY. Terrible weapons need to be reevaluated and buffed up. Resource and mod acquisition needs to be reevalutated. Convenience, and rewards need to be at the forfront. A game of grinding gets old eventually, sooner for some, and later for others, but eventually, everyone reaches their grinding limit.

Why make a game about grind? Make a game about rewards, and fun.

I'm sure this post is too long for many to read, and will be lost in the flood of posts, but I wanted to at least make my point clear. I like the game, it has much potential, but the negative aspects have finally reached their limit. I simply do not have any more patience, nor morale to endure the continuous unrewarding aspects of the game. As I said, I'll check in every now and then to see how the game progresses, and I wish this game the best of luck.

Farewell.

[gell]

I agree, although I'm still hanging in here. While the game has fun mechanics, it's mostly wrapped up in a lot of grinding or farming, and none of that is really suitable for a fun game, just a game that will retain players who don't value their own time, or new players still enjoying the combat mechanics.

This game has a lot of potential, but unfortunately, I see it easily going the way of every F2P (or near F2P) co-op game, which means a ton of grinding, waiting for more content, which leads to more grinding because apparently only about 1 in 100 games figures out that the key to keep content moving is not to make it, but to allow others to make it.

No dev will be fast enough to put out enough content alone, not even Blizzard can with their 500 people on WoW alone. And so, the most uncreative and simple thing to do is to make players farm. Too bad that while this may generate enough money to keep things going, it doesn't really respect players at all and treats them as roving wallets. Look around, find the games that don't rely on endless farming for player experiences, and start straight up copying, because traditional farming doesn't keep interest, it only keeps players in a turnstile.

Some things will be ironed out and improved over time, such as lack of content, or bugs, crashes, glitches. Those are easily forgivable. But some things are designed, and will likely mean the end of, if not the game, then at least, the end of anything original to the game world and ultimately forgettable.

Of course no dev working hard hours wants to hear that. Maybe DE staff can give the designers some stern looks before this game turns into farmfest #6000.

Edited February 12, 2013 by gell

[CamoPsycho]

i read the whole post and you do have some pionts but its still beta so yes there is going to be that down side but thats the whole point of beta to get everyones opion bcouse if no one posted the above than they wouldnt know what peaple like or didnt like.

[G3rman]

It's not the devs fault you did too much playing and burnt yourself out. Sure their system isn't perfect, but the point is testing it and not necessarily having fun in the process. The beta is to find the fun and make it better.

If this is your attitude then there really isn't anything to say.

[demontrace]

Thank you for your response gell, nice to see someone who also sees the game as I do.

I would draw an example of Guild Wars 2.

Now MMOs in general are all about the farm, as you mention with WoW. Yet Guild Wars 2 makes almost every aspect of the game rewarding. Even the grinding, is rewarding. There is ALWAYS a tangible reward for ANYTHING you do. You can set your sights on something, and achieve it. Thing is, there are SO MANY things to achieve, that you don't get bored. If for some reason you achieve all you can with 1 character, you have multiple other character classes to choose from, or even different races to approach the same class, but from a different angle.

Guild Wars 2 pretty much hit the nail on the head, and on top of all that, it's an MMO with no monthly fee. They are the standard by which other MMOs should follow, in my opinion.

Now I understand Warframe is not an MMO in the direction of Guild Wars 2. It is admittedly a very different game, yet you find some of the worst aspects of the grind in this game. That simply shouldn't be. More content in the form of new frames, and new weapons simply isn't good enough, if the fundamental system is flawed. More frames, and more weapons are supposed to be the icing on the cake, in a game that is simply fun to play.

I could design a game that forces you to log in 100 times to get a reward, but such a game wouldn't necessarily be fun, typing in your password 100 times to get somewhere. You need to keep the process engaging. Monotony is not the basis upon which fun is found.

I already summed up everything I felt in my original post. I'm not just hating on the game. I am criticizing it's unfun aspects. I very much want the best for the game. DE has the potential to strike gold. They even got a quicklook out of Giantbomb, which is one of my favorite websites. Jeff, one of the main guys there thought it was alright, but it didn't really win him over. Many users on the site went on to defend the game, and point out aspects of the game that Jeff had simply missed. Was that Jeff's fault for not agonizing over the game trying to figure out everything it had to offer? Not really. The game should let you know what it has to offer. There should be SOME exploration, but the mechanics of the game should be spelled out in an easy to take in way. Days after playing, I'd be finding aspects that would have added to fun, yet it was never informed to me by the game. I'd have to hunt down information. That's not acceptable. And this is besides the unrewarding aspects of loot acquistion, and leveling your character in a number of ways.

[R4YCH40S]

I agree,to those stuff....but Im still hanging on due to it being CBT,and Im a solo-er(no choice cause all my buddies appear offline bug)....

So much for an online game indeed yet I can't see anyone in it,for what....

Should quickly fix those up.

Grinding point:Yes,its heavy in here,and I think it shall be buffed abiet,especially those people that badly wanted that specific frame part and got nothg....I dont mean buff it to the point where those plat loaders feel its unfair or what,but really,not everyone HAD THE TIME TO SIT IN FRONT OF SCREEN IN FRUSTATION OF GETTING NOTHG.

Also,the point where its so unconvienient:THE AMMO.Literally.

When you wanted [A weapon's] Ammo,all those [X,Y,B,D weapon's ]Ammo comes out (Im currently saving credits for somethg else dont ask me why should I buy some ammo boxes,and besides I think health kits are more better)

Some frame and weapon's skills are bugged alot too,I agree....

Since this is CBT,Why not allow users more freedom of Warframe selection?Two slots total isn't convienient for testing(including the starter frame you chose at beginning its one already),maybe 3-4 would do.

[Disthe]

I read the whole article and have the same feeling - my enthusiasm is fading as well.

Just to hope the horrible grinding is due to beta testing, the game flow may change through enriched game content.

DE will tune on the drop rate but temporary no news about changing game flow.

Let's talk about 'what are we playing'.

The only way to make your game processing and proof to your gameplay time is mastery system. Too bad! You are wasting time on your favorite set of weapons and warframe cuz they are maximum leveled. Why can't I enjoy my favorite? You start to hate this attitude added on you.

You have to use a new and inferior set to play like never did no process to the game except the mastery, suffer?

Don't force player to 'play' different contents.

Players are willing to play other contents if they are interested to explore the world of game.

In GW2, you will have a tons of fun and rewards even playing a maximum leveled character that max level is only a beginning.

You can always keep process going and have fun.

Anyway, I keep playing since there is a beta excuse. I still believe Warframe can be a classic forever!

Edited February 12, 2013 by Disthe

[Zakalwe]

Yet Guild Wars 2 makes almost every aspect of the game rewarding. Even the grinding, is rewarding.

Sorry, but I disagree with this. Guild Wars 2 did nothing but sugar coat the grind. It's a very unrewarding game, unless you feel rewarded by xp pop ups every few minutes for finding a new area/vista/etc... a real rewards.

It promised a lot, didn't deliver, and is now trending into just another wow clone.

-

Warframe is never going to move away from the grind philosophy. If you're hoping for that and you don't want to take platinum shortcuts, then you'll be hoping for a long time. The game will get better, no doubt, but it is always going to rely on grind vs money , for better or worse that's the path they've chosen.

Saying that, for the ype of design, I think the game is very fair to F2Pers. The time it takes to get new gear is currently much less than most other F2P and MMO types that rely on similar unlock systems, and the amount of content on offer for free relative to the amount of overall content currently available is very good.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Zakalwe

[KnaveSkye]

I read most of this thread, and while beta is beta, this is also a game that doesnt want to shut down 2 months after it releases. A lot of the complaints in this thread can be bypassed by actually spending money. Otherwise you accept being at the mercy of the RNG for blueprints and Alerts. The balance still has to be found and it may be skewed too far in one direction at the moment, but dont expect them to give you everything free and easy and still keep the servers running.

[Feindfeuer]

It's not the devs fault you did too much playing and burnt yourself out. Sure their system isn't perfect, but the point is testing it and not necessarily having fun in the process. The beta is to find the fun and make it better.

If this is your attitude then there really isn't anything to say.

Though i realy enjoy the game, the Thread Starter has a very valid point. Boss drops are too random and often very unrewarding. And this is the Devs fault, cause the player can certainly not adjust the loot table or the drop rate. Don't get me wrong, i don't want to get the complete set of Blueprints in one run, but a Boss should always drop something valuable... and if you murder one and he only drops some ferrite, it's rather frustrating. There should always be a blueprint, rare mode or rare resource in the Boss drop, it should never consist only of 'trash' resources that you always have enough of anyway.

Also posting threads about what makes you frustrated and what you don't like about the current state of the game are vital for the Devs, so they know what the current playing community feels are the weak points of the game. Sure, quitting is kind of an overreacting, especially during a closed beta where you're not supposed to play a finnished product anyway. But communicating points of frustrating are a very valid reason to post a thread and well worth a discussion.

[sambarpowder]

Essentially, DE has made a fun game and then bogged it down with cash-grubbing and annoying contrivances that ultimately limit what the game does for you. I've had my fill of this game, I'm not done yet but I've reached the F2P cap. It's fun, but I really don't agree with some principles the devs have pushed, and that's keeping me from paying.

While they do need money, it is my belief that DE is charging for all the wrong things. The point of the game is to be fun, and if you're making a game free, but charging for the fun, then, well... Meh. I'm still watching the game closely, but I'm not seeing many changes.

[FreshJB2]

Shameless plug aside, check out this thread. I think these ideas would help add more fun and extend the life of Warframe for players. By joining the conversation,you will let the devs know that not only is this an issue, there is an agreed upon solution.

Edited February 12, 2013 by FreshJB2

[Cakes]

Well, to draw off the GW2 example, the blueprints are more akin to mystic forging 4 rares/exotics for a precursor. A gamble-ish farm at the mercy of the RNG gods.

Bosses should confer some sort of reward for beating them. But on the other hand, if the assassination missions are just throwing rare things at you at a relatively high rate just for killing the boss, the rarity/achievement value of those things just get diminished over time. However, I can definitely see how a guaranteed quality of drops for killing the boss can help to alleviate the frustration. Downing a boss and getting ferrite just reminds me of the WoW raids where I kept rolling the wrong numbers and getting nothing, or the ~5k mystic forge attempts to reach legendary status.

I can sort of see the resource issue, especially given the limiting factor in foundry recipes isn't so much the rarity of the materials, but the universal use of a select few materials in the majority of recipes players would craft. Not a good design in my eyes. But how knows, maybe the next wave of weapons/warframes won't need rubedo/alloy plate? Heh. The looting system is also a bit weird since credits are shared, but everything else depends on individual pickup. The mods I can sort of see to allow for individual random mod generation upon pickup, but not so much the red cube drops. The time-out also doesn't make quite sense, unless DE forgot to mention that resources degrade when exposed to light.

I also did what you're doing, ranking what I see as "less fun" weapons to 30 before selling them and making room for the "more fun" weapons just because I'm a completionist. And I quite agree, some weapons are simply "meh", and others like the Burston actually got a "well that's a letdown" out of me. I kept all my frames and weapons uncharged to maintain the perspective of a F2P player in terms of combat capability, and only recently supercharged a warframe (Trinity) given the recent bonanza of orokin blueprints. But you're right, the grind for xp/materials/drops/grind/stuffs really detracts from the whole space ninja slash and shoot theme. One can argue that the F2P must grind to match the Pay with Platinum button, but with the trend in foundry recipes it's getting to be a Free to Grind game.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Cakes

[Mak_Gohae]

You find yourself compelled to craft new warframes, and new weapons, unfortunately the process is EXTREMELY unrewarding.

You dont find it rewarding getting to play a new warframe?

I hear from people, oh I did a boss run 25 times to get my 3 blueprints, and those are the guys on the lucky end. One guy claims to have done a run almost 100 times to get his 3 blueprints. What about this seems acceptable to you DE? Do you not think your RNG percentages are a little low? Anyone with a life simply isn't going to have the time for this. You are competing against a number of games, and F2P is ALSO competing against a number of games. I feel the game needs to be more rewarding.

I think DE needs to add somewhere that the game has RPG elements so stuff like this doesnt happen.

Any RPG game has stuff like this.

Now THAT is just the blueprints/boss system. You compound that against the resource acquisition part of the game. As it currently is, IF a resource drops, everybody has to run to that one point to acquire said resource. What if the player runs there, only to find no resource? Some kind of timer has ticked down, or maybe a bug, maybe lag, maybe anything, but the resource isn't acquired now. The player feels irritated because now they have been cheated out of the resource, when the ultimate in reward would be just 1 player grabbing the resource, maybe even the host, since he won't be facing the lag errors other players do, and ALL players acquiring the benefit of the resource.

This doesn't even take into consideration the fact that the most valuable resources, rubedo and alloy plate, have simply too low of drop rates

Nothing like running to a resource you really need, and 1 second before you pick it up, it disappears, to give you no credit.

This is more of a player problem if you/they/them, for some reason, are running all over the place and are not in a group.

And the drop rates are pretty random and so is the ammount. I gotten a 48 drop of rub once. Not that i kept it because i lost the connection but there you go.

Another unrewarding feature, is if there is some kind of bug towards the end of the mission, or at any point during the mission, upon which your connection is lost somehow. Or a crash to desktop. You have now lost all progress made during the mission. I currently have the Frost systems, and the helmet. I have been trying to get the Frost chassis for some time. Irregardless of the terrible blueprint drop system, at one point I ACTUALLY won the Frost Chassis blueprint. Unfortunately at the end of the mission there was an error. The connection to the server/host was lost. Because of that, my Frost chassis blueprint was lost. After an unacceptable amount of runs, I had finally got my chassis blueprint, only to have it lost because of an error.

I would add to this, I have followed all guides to open ports, both on my windows 7 firewall, and my router itself. I am not on a wireless connection, but a wired one. I am the one who set up my network, and at the time, no one was connected to it, other than myself. I also have an Internet connection that would be considered fast, regardless of the fact that is a subjective term.

Like i just said above... this has happened to me too.

The game is in beta, stuff like this happens. Hopefully are the game develops this will lessen and probably disappear.

One more: The leveling of the mastery rank. Simply put, many of the weapons you have available are REALLY BAD. The burston, the lex, the mk1 braton, the lato, the skana, the dual skana, the strum, the furax, the sicarus, and the bolto.

Jebus, dude, you dont like anything?

First, MK1, Skana, Lato are starter weapons which you should drop ASAP. Your first boss fight gives up a better sword to craft.

The Burston is more of a "pinpoint" shotgun, it's mid range and it generaly hits where you put the dot. You can take the knees out of infested and get headshot.

I have no idea what you think the Strum sucks. I have one with puncture and multishot and in Infested defense missions no one touches my cryopod! It's MY CRYOPOD! Im like, BLAKA, BLAKA, BLAKA! You can look but not touch! Apparently, i havent reached the required level yet, the Hek is the upgrade but since it takes a bit..... the Strum should do you fine for a long time.

I understand those are MY opinions, but many of those weapons simply pale in comparison to other weapons. I personally find the AKlato to be godly. They are better than many pistols. Why bother with sicarus, or lato, when the AKlato is available? The Akbolto is better than the bolto. I find the Akfuris to be amazing even if they are an ammo hog. Then you take into consideration the primary weapons, and the melee weapons. There are so many superior choices over the inferior choices that you have to ask yourself, "Why do the inferior weapons exist, and why would I bother to level them?" Well for mastery of course!

Like you said.... your personal opinion.

Perhaps it was a mistake, but I decided to level the terrible weapons first, to leave myself the better weapons for later leveling. Some weapons are so fun to use, that it's a shame I left them for last, when my interest was finally fading. The Hek is an amazing gun. The gorgon is really fun. Many heavy melee weapons are quite enjoyable, including other melee weapons like Cronus, Scindo, Fragor, even Gram to a certain degree. The bronco was actually a surprise, and turned out quite good. Already mentioned, the Aklato, GREAT WEAPON. AKbolto has potential, same with Akfuris. So many well designed weapons, hampered by the terrible weapons. All for a mastery system.

Learning curve, my man.

If you want kick &#! weapons from the start you are going to have to face kick butt enemies and that is not a good way to introduce people. So you get trash first then upgrade this is... this is standard RPG stuff. Hell this is done in a whole mess of shooters. Crappy weapons first that lead to better.

It's understood you need to master weapons, and frames, to achieve a mastery ranking, but many of those weapons are SO tedious, that it sucks the fun out of the game. Now I am someone who leveled up many of those tedious weapons with an affinity booster. Imagine someone without the booster doing the same thing. It would take TWICE as long. I petered out on enthusiasm before the booster could run out, and I also consider myself someone with a decent amount of patience. Not record setting, but not abyssmal either. I couldn't hang with the current system. Imagine someone with less patience.

You didnt need to level the starter weapons to max, i didnt and i am close to getting the Hek. And i didnt use any boosters. And one tip for folks out there.... level them sucky weapons when farming for stuff in lower level areas so they dont become a hindrance.

Now you may wonder why am I writing all this, when I'm clearly throwing in the towel? Because I liked this game so much initially, and find so much potential in the game. This game could be one of the top games. It has the makings of a game people would love to sink time into. Even after acquiring every weapon and frame you wanted, leveling them up to their max level, and achieving the cap on mastery, the game has the potential to be one that you return to, just because you enjoy the combat, and the people you group with. Unfortunately I don't feel the game has reached that point. So many systems are simply unrewarding, that spending more time with the game, leaves you with this feeling that you're being cheated out of you time. That you aren't being rewarded enough.

So you never played an RPG in your life?

Granted, I've reached this point after the umpteenth boss run. The fact that bosses are so important to your continued progress is an obvious flaw in the system. To sum it up, boss drop rates need to be increased SUBSTANTIALLY. Terrible weapons need to be reevaluated and buffed up. Resource and mod acquisition needs to be reevalutated. Convenience, and rewards need to be at the forfront. A game of grinding gets old eventually, sooner for some, and later for others, but eventually, everyone reaches their grinding limit.

Why make a game about grind? Make a game about rewards, and fun.

I'm sure this post is too long for many to read, and will be lost in the flood of posts, but I wanted to at least make my point clear. I like the game, it has much potential, but the negative aspects have finally reached their limit. I simply do not have any more patience, nor morale to endure the continuous unrewarding aspects of the game. As I said, I'll check in every now and then to see how the game progresses, and I wish this game the best of luck.

Farewell.

If this stuff was handed to you quicker you would have wrote this post a long time ago.

[Automatia]

OP makes a good point, game is terribly grindy.

[ShadowNetBG]

Think of an acceptable and profitable way to monetize the game, then they can ditch the grinding and the unrewarding part.

As for suggestions:

Create minibosses all over the map, each dropping different parts for a warframe. That will also provide incentive to do all missions, instead of going for the main bosses only.

[Archade]

-

Hes complaining that the current system requires you to level up those bad weapons. Yeah, the smart thing to do is to throw out the bad weapons as soon as you can, but that caps your rank. The game is telling you to max out every weapon, even the terrible starting ones. Thats not a good system.

They need to unlink rank to weapon/frame levels and just have it be based on exp

[Mak_Gohae]

Hes complaining that the current system requires you to level up those bad weapons. Yeah, the smart thing to do is to throw out the bad weapons as soon as you can, but that caps your rank. The game is telling you to max out every weapon, even the terrible starting ones. Thats not a good system.

They need to unlink rank to weapon/frame levels and just have it be based on exp

The only mastery rank you really need to get is 4 to get the Hek and you can get that by with the slots you have. I've sold the MK1,Lato, and Snaka asap and the Cronus which got high into the levels to make some space and i'm about the get level 4. If you want to get pass rank 4 now.... well, yeah, you need to level everything but there is no reason to do that at the moment.

[lohntron39]

I'd like to mention here that I'm a leader in a clan of....*checks*...three hundred and nineteen, currently. There are fifteen on. That spikes to twentyfive when a "?" alert comes on. This game has good appeal at the start, it has a fun mechanic, but it has almost no retention. The reason for that is all the forced caps put in place on the free-to-play player; you don't get the feeling you can enhance your game by spending money, you feel you are forced to spend money to get the whole experience, which you are. And that drives people away.

The combat might be fun the first dozen or so hours, but slamming into that progress wall with the alternative being many dozens of hours of grinding is not acceptable to the majority of players, and they simply quit the game. Most every game in development is lauded as "having potential", but from the responses and actions we're seeing so far it's gonna be just another corpse on the pile if it even makes it to launch. I'd love for that to not happen though.

Edited February 13, 2013 by JayWalker
Removed insult.

[demontrace]

I would like to add something to this post. To the people that basically give a response of, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out.", I would state, we, as beta testers, should feel obligated to give a response to the developers.

They have invited us in to check out the game, and give feedback. This isn't just a free game, regardless of the free to play moniker, it's a beta test. With every complaint I make, including the ones others make, the response of, "it's a beta test," isn't good enough to explain away the flaws. We are SUPPOSED to point out the aspects that don't work. It may be personal opinion, but that's one more opinion that needs to be taken into consideration. If DE keeps hearing the same opinions about what doesn't work, it's in their best interests to fix that portion before the game is finally released. To keep silent is to doom the game into failure, and I'm sure none of us want that. DE is basically paying for this beta test to happen, regardless of the options for founders packages, or platinum purchases, as many people will NOT put money into the beta test.

I forked out $20 in a basic founders package. I liked the game enough to support it with 20 of my dollars, however this does not make me any better than the players that didn't put in any money yet, or never will. Everyone's opinion is valid.

For those that would endlessly defend, and attack the opinions of others, do you really think you're helping the game? I'm sure the developers behind DE have thick skins. Someone saying, I don't like grinding isn't going to cause the lead developer to break down in a fit of misery and despair, and lock himself in his bedroom for a week, crying himself to sleep every night. It's only feedback. We owe it to the developers to let them know about this stuff. I'm sure they're expecting this stuff. Sure it might hurt to have an idea crushed, but being able to accept criticism is an important skill. The best designers/developers know this.

As I've already said, I actually like the game quite a bit, it's just the unfun aspects really suck the life out of it. I'm trying to bring my criticisms to light, to let DE know what didn't work. I see this constantly with other posters as well. They aren't being inflammatory, they aren't trying to speak for others, they're just giving feedback.

If you feel so passionately about the game to attack others, why not direct that in a DIFFERENT way? Single out what you love so much about the game, and make a post about that. Positive feedback is important, just like negative feedback.

[MJ12]

Hes complaining that the current system requires you to level up those bad weapons. Yeah, the smart thing to do is to throw out the bad weapons as soon as you can, but that caps your rank. The game is telling you to max out every weapon, even the terrible starting ones. Thats not a good system.

They need to unlink rank to weapon/frame levels and just have it be based on exp

Devs have confirmed some form of Prestige/reset to Rank 1 system will exist in the future. That will eliminate these problems.

[Disthe]

-

Many truth.

"To keep silent is to doom the game into failure, and I'm sure none of us want that."

Advice whispered is worthless but it depends on how much attention it can gain.

We are here both contribute to beta test, don't treat the negative feedback like the haters.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Disthe

[Madotsuki]

I'd have to agree, i'm getting pretty sick of the game, though not completely for grindy reasons.

While i don't have much to say on blueprint grinding since i doubt i'll ever switch from my Volt, the one grind feature i do really hate is the Mastery Rank system. For a long while i didn't know how to raise the Mastery Rank. I had every single planet unlocked and had beaten 5 of the bosses, my Volt was level 30 and all 3 of my weapons (not the starters) were 20+, and yet my Rank is just 2? And then i found out the Rank raises not by exp but by leveling warframes and weapons.....Why? This practically forces you to use weapons that you do not want to use, or buy multiple instances of the same weapon just to get more Rank. That's just stupid. And worse, the Gorgon and the Hek, rank 3 and rank 4 required respectively, are almost objectively the best primary weapons in the game. It's not just an alternative or a side-grade, it's a direct upgrade from things like the Braton, or Strun, and thus you are obligated to farm for those mastery ranks, and you are forced to switch away from your favourite weapons or even your main warframe and use something that you are not interested in at all. And once you do unlock Gorgon/Hek, they'll replace your current weapons anyway by being simply better. All those hours leveling different weapons and restarting from level 1 repeatedly simply lead up to acquiring the Gorgon and the Hek, and then you have to level those two up again from scratch. That's just lazy design.

Quite frankly the Mastery Rank system should be based on exp/kills and not level ups, like what Archade said. Then at least you can just stick to your favourite loadout and not have to worry about wasting xp or intentionally farming levels for a bad weapon.

[Erotikus]

Hello, I'm just gonna add my 2 cents. Normaly I dont play any game that has any type of grind in it, I find the skinner box principle used in such games not ethical and disrespectful of the players time, with that said i gave Warframe a pass due solely on the DE past games and Warframes own visual design.

That being said i was quite psyched when i got in the beta after 2-3 games I did some reasearch on where to get specific warframes and wepons, so I targeted at getting ash as my first warframe also figured I would by some stuff from the store once I get him like reactors and catalysts/ash helm etc. even had some vague ideas to buy new warframe slots after finishing ash so i could get more of them.

After 12 hours of total game time I am nowhere near close to complete the 1st thing I set out to do, curently im bored out of my skull with this game, been farming titania for the last ash bp not to mention I have yet to farm some other components to actually make the ash parts, I even supercharged volt (my 1st warframe) so I wouldnt quit the game halfway through, even after that all my plans of getting other warframes and weapons have faded leaving me thinking I might just quit this game and check it after a few months.

THIS IS NOT COMPELING GAMEPLAY, its the worst kind of monotones grind after 12 hours of grinding I have nothing to show for it.

Would laso like to point out to DE that of the the most idiotic thing currently in the game is the fact that u have only 1 warframe at your disposal, why dont we have the starting 3 Loki, Excalibur and Volt? Once this game goes live whats to stop people from creating multiple accounts and having all those 3 warframes, might aswell reach out to the players and let them be able to switch between those 3 warframes form the get go, that might actually resolve some of the boredom problems I've been having, thats the way Dice did it in Battlefield heroes, you have 4 starting slots there and 3 classes yet you can buy more slots, once you get bored playing with 1 class u switch it up a bit, these warframes aint mmorpg characters you have 4 skills tops with them, that gets boring really fast, like playing any dota, lol, hon game with only 1 hero. I gladly spend money on dota 2 store yet here I aint gonna spend a dime until they fix this moronic grinding system which is an insult to me as a player. look at the aformentioned games as to how to add value through your market and dont try tu bully me into buying stuff by making me bored and exausted.

p.s. yes i know its a beta as some people stated but tahts the very reason for us to point out the flaws in the game

[Archade]

Devs have confirmed some form of Prestige/reset to Rank 1 system will exist in the future. That will eliminate these problems.

Thats not a good system either, since its basically forcing you to take your good gun and make it bad again.

That sort of system would never be used on your good weapons, if anything it would be used on the fodder weapons that you never use but carry around in your least used weapon slot to leech exp while your main weapons do the work.

I can see it now, people farming infested with good melee weapons so their useless fodder guns rank up to 30 for the hundredth time.

Just make it be based on total exp. Its simple, look at all the warframe exp you have ever earned, work out rank based on that. Problem solved, no issues.