Phorid's Attacks

[Draxxon]

DE often talks about how we should be utilizing agility to avoid things instead of cover. I know there's a lot of talk about how to make our agility more useful for this, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. I'm hear to talk about the way Phorid fights and why it's completely backwards as far as what DE wants us to do in this game.

I ignored Phorid for a while, still haven't finished Eris for that matter. I finally wanted to get Nyx a couple of weeks ago so I thought I'd finally start hunting Phorid. I've been doing it off an on with other random people and I noticed some really sudden deaths that seemed out of nowhere for my party but things generally worked out because of our numbers and I didn't think about it much.

Tonight I tried to fight him solo. The type of weapons and frame I brought aren't important to the general point here because this has to do with how we should be avoiding damage and not what frame/weapons work against him. Within the first minute of the fight I was fighting two ancients that I thought were far from where Phorid spawned, and my frame was knocked out from an attack I didn't even see hit me. I revived and figured I'd keep going.

I figure I should keep my distance and then I saw his prized death attack for the first time. I figured I could dodge it. Not only did these projectiles home, but they were faster than I could run. At this point I think I should mention the frame I was using because I was using Banshee which is supposed to be fairly fast. Not only does this attack violate the basic way we are supposed to be fighting, but this attack completely ignored my shields. You know what does work if you see his tell for the attack? Getting behind cover, wait a second...

Then there's his other attack, which is survivable if you have enough shields and health, but this howl also defies how we should be fighting. Not only is it instant and ranged, but this cannot be dodged reasonably while fighting him. I think I was about 50 feet away one of the times he used it and there was nothing I could do but sit there and take it. What's the point of this? What are all of our nimble skills worth if this boss can just wipe out our shields and some of our hp whenever he feels like it with no downside or any kind of tell that I could see?

I don't know if this was a bad timing issue on my part, but to top things off I went to use an emergency sound quake hoping to do some major damage and prevent a swipe at me, but he seemed completely unfazed by my ult. I don't remember seeing any damage numbers come off of him and he stood there and mauled me while I was casting it. Dead, all 4 revives gone in one fight, and not due to a lack of effort trying to avoid attacks.

[LegitGhosty]

And that kids, is how Frost and Rhino were born.

 

P.S : I support you sir! +1 !

[-Narauko-]

I find it quite funny how we're supposed to be ninjas and use our agility against homing weapons/attacks. Best thing to do against Phorid's opening volley is sit behind a crate or object...which is exactly what we're not supposed to be doing :s.

 

TBH I can't really understand such a hardline stance against taking cover.

[Silraed]

Completely agree.

 

+1

[Adagio]

agree ..

 

the howl is somewhat unavoidable for me .. or it really is unavoidable ? only by being in other room then i'm safe from it.

the homing mucus of death, even with Ash, doing a flying slide with Dual Zoren, they still hit me .. only by using Rhino's Iron Skin, Frost's Snow Globe or Ember's Overheat (not sure about now) i can survive the mucus .. not counting if it uses it more than once in case if it breaks the damage absorb / reduction and hits my HP tho.

back then when i was farming for my Nyx, if my cover isn't large enough the homing mucus could do a nearly 90 degree turn and hit me from the cover's side.

[LegitGhosty]

agree ..

 

the howl is somewhat unavoidable for me .. or it really is unavoidable ? only by being in other room then i'm safe from it.

the homing mucus of death, even with Ash, doing a flying slide with Dual Zoren, they still hit me .. only by using Rhino's Iron Skin, Frost's Snow Globe or Ember's Overheat (not sure about now) i can survive the mucus .. not counting if it uses it more than once in case if it breaks the damage absorb / reduction and hits my HP tho.

back then when i was farming for my Nyx, if my cover isn't large enough the homing mucus could do a nearly 90 degree turn and hit me from the cover's side.

Hehe, mucus. :p

[CaptainohCaptain]

As a ninja, we should use EVERYTHING to complete our mission. And we have fancy things: possibility to dodge 100% attacks of Corpus, 50% damage block on blocking, about 33% of misses of  OMGNOFUKKENAIMBOTUNFAIR Grineer Troopers on medium range, coming up to 60% on move (with rolls and stuff) and 81% behind cover, using right hand advantage to shoot at them. Enemies sucks at grenade throwing (300 damage on lvl 45? I catched only 3 of them in the whole playtime which is, according to Steam, 636 hours), you've got magic regenerating shield, loads of abilities to keep you unharmed (Either CC or damage reduction/Immunity/Zero aggro).

 

What comes to Phorid, his main attack is regular attack, with huge chances of stagger, high speed and nearly 300 per attack in solo. Homing projectile somewhat similar in behavior to leeching devices — has pretty low turn rate and can't turn more than 270 degrees, disappearing on turn limit.

 

What's wrong with you, people?

[Draxxon]

As a ninja, we should use EVERYTHING to complete our mission. And we have fancy things: possibility to dodge 100% attacks of Corpus, 50% damage block on blocking, about 33% of misses of  OMGNOFUKKENAIMBOTUNFAIR Grineer Troopers on medium range, coming up to 60% on move (with rolls and stuff) and 81% behind cover, using right hand advantage to shoot at them. Enemies sucks at grenade throwing (300 damage on lvl 45? I catched only 3 of them in the whole playtime which is, according to Steam, 636 hours), you've got magic regenerating shield, loads of abilities to keep you unharmed (Either CC or damage reduction/Immunity/Zero aggro).

 

What comes to Phorid, his main attack is regular attack, with huge chances of stagger, high speed and nearly 300 per attack in solo. Homing projectile somewhat similar in behavior to leeching devices — has pretty low turn rate and can't turn more than 270 degrees, disappearing on turn limit.

 

What's wrong with you, people?

Wow, way to hide behind a bunch of numbers and sound like a complete elitist. Get off your high horse and maybe I'll take you seriously.

[-Kittens-]

Point is they can still be avoided cleanly and come with a dopplerized sound effect, and you are allowed to get up after the scream with no D mods installed and as Rhino or Frost.

 

It's the same basic timing as any other seeking missile; wait until it's about 4 meters out and then move forward and into the trail of the projectile, once you're inside turn radius ratio, you literally cannot be hit.

 

Running away from it will get you hit every time.

Edited September 9, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Draxxon]

Point is they can still be avoided cleanly and come with a dopplerized sound effect, and you are allowed to get up after the scream with no D mods installed and as Rhino or Frost.

 

It's the same basic timing as any other seeking missile; wait until it's about 4 meters out and then move forward and into the trail of the projectile, once you're inside turn radius ratio, you literally cannot be hit.

 

Running away from it will get you hit every time.

First off, thank you for being a voice of reason in the opposition. I find that rare on these forums.

I see what you're saying about the turning to avoid, but I don't see this as being an intuitive solution or being a great one unless you've run this several times by yourself. I had to use cover to dodge this homing attack, and using our frame's agility to avoid attacks is something I do often. With the playstyle of the game and considering these are things launched from a living organism, wouldn't it just make sense to at least give them a dropoff. I'm not even going to go into how a living organism could launch homing spikes because this game already breaks a lot of logic, so there's not much point going deeply there.

I guess my overall point of this is Phorid's attacks seem like gotcha's. One is long ranged, fast, homing and ignores our primary form of defense, the other is instant, and comes close to killing most but the heaviest of frames. I'm all for a good challenging fight, but nearly unavoidable attacks that are very lethal don't seem like challenge so much as gotcha's. That's not what good game design is to me. Players of any game can argue some specific strategy that has to be used every time against gotcha's but I don't see that as an excuse for bad game design. If they want us to have agility as our primary defense, they need to build the enemies around that. Even the most devastating bosses in Demon's Souls can be avoided by a good player. When I die to a boss in Demon's Souls I generally feel like it's my fault. I didn't feel that against Phorid.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Draxxon

[-Kittens-]

If you can dodge Onionstern and Smough throughout their tradeoff mode, then I don't have any inkling how you can be hit by Phorid's attacks ->once you know the pattern<- or even simply the methods by which single attacks take place as thery are pre-existing entities with slight cosmetic changes.

 

Your slide will outrun his pursuit (and "missiles", if you turn in) and the scream is not enough to hold even the slowest frame in place.

 

Now a case for ignorance can be made, much as it is for Raptor's mid barrage pause and then even more missile appear with literally no telegraph for the second barrage unless you know in advance it's coming, but once the attacks are seen, they are literally copy pasta of existing attacks with very clear and rote rules.

 

Phorid is also THE infested capo di tuti capi.

 

He's also going to change.

Edited September 9, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Draxxon]

Well I'm glad he's being changed. I kind of figured he's a placeholder boss, as many are. I just don't want them making the same mistakes with a revamp considering he's unique compared to most of the bosses.

Once I realized I could use cover against his barrage, I did the same thing I do against raptor, which is make sure something is in the way of it. Which led to a game of ring around the rosie under the platform.

The scream is still seems like mostly unavoidable high damage, though not as deadly as the barrage.

Ultimately I was taken down the final time due to my mistake in thinking my ult would not allow him to maul me to death and get in some good damage. My akbolto's had him down to about half health.

[MECT_HET]

Excuse me!

 

But what happend with an old good combat roll! It saved my life more time I could count, and ulike some games where roll exists for no reason, in warframe every single roll you could do, is helping. So, once again: seeing phorid's missiles incoming, pressing aim, when direction key and hitting the shift.

 

Not a big deal after some practice. And of course, you're unable to dodge missiles just by running, eg, you're unable to run away from the missiles.

[Destro6677]

With the playstyle of the game and considering these are things launched from a living organism, wouldn't it just make sense to at least give them a dropoff. I'm not even going to go into how a living organism could launch homing spikes because this game already breaks a lot of logic, so there's not much point going deeply there.

 

I just had to say this. Tyranids.

[blackstraykitten]

well, well, well
i just killed phorid by myself
thanks for the raptor tip guys

now ill tell you what i did

the terrain is very similar to vor's place so
before you meet him there is a corner room where a console is located in that room is a stair case where phorid is having a hard time to climb also phorid is having a hard tim to pass that door
i just camped in a giant box near the door eliminating all mobs then despaired the hell out of that upsidedown face and viola!

i was online waiting for someone to pug in but then i think ill just go in solo hehehe

[Hayden11121]

Just like Raptor and Vor. Pre Vor newbies had it a bit too easy, just kite him easily and be done with it, but now you just sit there and take his damn pistol shot with no real way to avoid it without getting behind a crate.

 

And Raptor's god damn speed rockets...

[Revel72]

Just like Raptor and Vor. Pre Vor newbies had it a bit too easy, just kite him easily and be done with it, but now you just sit there and take his damn pistol shot with no real way to avoid it without getting behind a crate.

 

And Raptor's god damn speed rockets...

 

My full tank Frost with fully modded Despairs says "Airspace belongs to us mother #@*&amp;&#036;@!" before casting a Snow Globe.

[Draxxon]

well, well, well

i just killed phorid by myself

thanks for the raptor tip guys

now ill tell you what i did

the terrain is very similar to vor's place so

before you meet him there is a corner room where a console is located in that room is a stair case where phorid is having a hard time to climb also phorid is having a hard tim to pass that door

i just camped in a giant box near the door eliminating all mobs then despaired the hell out of that upsidedown face and viola!

i was online waiting for someone to pug in but then i think ill just go in solo hehehe

You and a couple others missed the point of this conversation that's pretty much already over anyways. This wasn't about whether he's soloable or not, it was about good game design. The fact that you mention the use of camping to beat him only furthers my original point.

I could bring up other points, but it really doesn't matter now. What I've needed to say has been said, my point has been made and kittens made the best arguments on the opposite side.

[SoanoS]

There is a non-camping way to defeat Phorid. Yuu need to run up close and avoid and dodge his melee attacks while unloading your weapons into his ugly face. When you are within certain distance of him, he will rather chase and take swings at you, rather than scream and launch psychic bolts.

 

A good way to get close is to use containers in the boss room for cover from those psychic bolts while you make your approach, while being wary of the scream that can stagger you out of cover.

 

And if you get a salvo of his psychic bolts zeroing down at you from high above, run/slide/roll towards the direction they come from and under them, and they will most likely end up hitting the ground behind you.

 

Please note that this tactic may not always work, so it is always a good idea to grab a friend or two to assist you. Phorid is supposed to be a difficult opponent to fight, after all.

[Hayden11121]

Please note that this tactic may not always work, so it is always a good idea to grab a friend or two to assist you. Phorid is supposed to be a difficult opponent to fight, after all.

 

So difficult is supposed to mean "Unavoidable and unsightable attacks that mean insta death in most scenerios"? 

[Dasmir]

Phorid use Poison daggers !

"you take cover"

 

Phorid use Scream !

"You start to stagger everywhere "

 

Poisong dagger hits you for 999999999 direct life damage.

 

EVERY FUKING TIME.

[CaptainohCaptain]

So difficult is supposed to mean "Unavoidable and unsightable attacks that mean insta death in most scenerios"? 

They are avoidable even in the open. Stop with this S#&amp;&#036; at once.

[Madotsuki]

I agree with the OP, Phorid is just a horribly designed boss that needs to be re-designed, probably as much of a priority as Nef Anyo. The homing spikes are bollocks considering how perfectly they home and how fast they are, and the scream is outright unavoidable, frustrating if you don't have the shields to tank it all, and plain annoying even if you do.

Though for now, I would suggest using Frost to fight Phorid. Since Phorid is a charger, it also takes 3x damage from sharp melee. Use a heavy sharp melee like the Hate, throw down a Snowglobe on Phorid and cut away. From personal experience it also seems that it rarely uses the spikes if you're close enough to it, so circle-strafing it up close with a shotty does wonders for keeping you alive, simply because it keeps it from triggering the damn spikes in the first place. Make sure to put Ice mods on your main weapon too. For the scream attack, the only thing you can do is get enough shields to tank it, which is easily achievable with Frost, because the scream is completely unavoidable.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Madotsuki