F2P And Game Difficulty

[wkfire]

F2P newbies can only get their first new Warframe (not countng the starter) after unlocking 6 planets, specifically, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Jupiter, Saturn and Europa?

Venus is the first planet a player unlocks to get their first Warframe parts, aka the Rhino parts.

These are from the wiki:

Rhino Helm Alloy Plate 150 Neural Sensors 1 Polymer Bundle 150 Rubedo 500 Credits 15,000

Rhino Chassis Morphics 1 Ferrite 1,000 Rubedo 300 Credits

15,000

Rhino Systems Control Module 1 Morphics 1 Salvage 500 Plastids 600 Credits 15,000

Rhino Warframe Rhino Helmet 1 Rhino Chassis 1 Rhino Systems 1 Orokin Cell 1 Credits 25,000

Plastids come from Saturn. Salvage and Neural Sensors come from Jupiter. Control Module is from Europa (closer compared to Neptune), which is like 4 planets away from Venus. Orokin cell comes from any bosses but Saturn drops them too.

Now lets say we include the Earth boss drops, Trinity. The only resource difference will be the Trinity systems Control Module 1 Morphics 1 Salvage 500 Plastids 220 Credits 15,000

Again, Plastids, one of the rarest drops in the game.

Back to my point, should the first Warframe be obtainable only after unlocking 6 planets? Because thats like half the planets gone with 13 (+1 when Necro comes) more other frames to acquire.

And once you unlocked these 6 planets, you can farm easily for any other frames, which I find illogical because difficulty should be from easy to hard and not hard to easy. It is hard to get a new frame even after your starter frame hits level 30. However, once you get your first new frame, it gets easier and easier to get the other frames, because the resource requirements for each warframe part is very similar.

If I were to plot a graph, the difficulty of this game is decreasing at an increasing rate, which is why many are complaining that the game is too hard for beginners but too easy for veterans. Difficulty in this case refers to the time and effort needed to farm for a new Warframe.

What I would suggest:

Change the resource requirements for each WF parts, so that even after unlocking 6 planets the others would not be easier to acquire. (I know it should not be easy to acquire a new frame because DE also needs to earn money from the non-F2P players)

Scale the resources required according to the planets unlocked.

Eg. Resources for Rhino parts can be found on Mercury, Venus and Earth only. Resources for Trinity parts can be found on Mercury, Venus, Earth and Jupiter/Mars/Saturn.

Of course, these are just my observations and viewpoints, which could be wrong. DE might want players to play it differently, unlock planets, before unlocking new frames. But yeah, just my 2-cents :)

Edit: Okay, Plastids might not be rare, but thats not the point. The point is about the rate we obtain a new frame vs the rate we unlock the contents (aka the planets). It is too slow at the start but too fast at the end.

Edited September 10, 2013 by wkfire

[-Narauko-]

Plastids is rare? News to me.

 

I would agree the warframe resources should come from the planet the BP comes from.

[Xaaz]

It's fine the way it is. You don't need a new frame that early, you need to learn the game. No new player will have a maxed frame by the time they get to the planets you listed to farm materials. If people want a frame earlier, they can buy one. That's the whole point.

[Rapxtor]

I agreed with you, that is something that i also felt when i start to play warframe, changing that, may make the game more interesting for new players, since farming is the main purpose, leave only the orokin cell that can be obtain from bosses.

[Rapxtor]

It's fine the way it is. You don't need a new frame that early, you need to learn the game. No new player will have a maxed frame by the time they get to the planets you listed to farm materials. If people want a frame earlier, they can buy one. That's the whole point.

 

Sorry but when i reached earth, i already had my loki maxed, only if you dont like defense missions, and besides 4 planets is more than enough to "learn the game".

I have nothing on this, got all warframes, was the first thing i did and farmed after, but that doesnt change the fact that some early requirement are hard, and some later very easy.

[J.C.Santos]

Agreed. Ember was the first Warframe I wanted to get and I was really excited about it. Turns out I was only able to make Ember weeks after actually getting all her parts because of the ridiculous material distribution. I ended up using Loki (my starter Warframe) through half of my Warframe career. When I finally was able to make the Warframes I wanted, it became partially pontless because I had already unlocked and done the majority of the planets available.

'Till this day, my most played Warframe is Loki and I sold it like a month ago. This shows that you are forced to stick to your starter Warframe for way too long. I would like to see a better material distribution in the future.

Edited September 10, 2013 by J.C.Santos

[Xenogelion]

I both agree and disagree. Where as it's nice to actually get a good frame you can easily fall in love with early on it's also the case from the get go. I chose Loki and even though I love him to bits I can't play anything but Nova now because of the damage output, she's stupidly powerful. Regardless of this I feel that it would be nice to complete a frame earlier on but at the same time you're not just limited to farming a frame slowly or flat out buying it. One of our Clan members was taken straight to get Ash and we helped him grind it, after he just played the game as normal but with Ash instead of Excalibur.

 

Friends help friends ;)

[low1991]

just no, go farm plastid if u want clan weapon just like all of us doing the same.

[wkfire]

It's fine the way it is. You don't need a new frame that early, you need to learn the game. No new player will have a maxed frame by the time they get to the planets you listed to farm materials. If people want a frame earlier, they can buy one. That's the whole point.

 

I tested it for myself. Created an alternate account and played with PUGs. I did repeat missions like Tolstoj and Fossa and by the time I unlocked Everest, I'm almost at 30. Also, I did not specially grind for resources for new weapons. I stuck with using the starter weapons so I did not have to farm and gain additional exp .

This pace, might even be slower than most beginner players. Rank 2 with Mercury to Earth all unlocked. Maxed Mag, lvl 25+ for the starter weapons. No help from clannies at Xini or Kappa. Simply through unlocking Mercury, Venus and Earth, and the boss fights. 

 

By the time I unlock Europa, Jupiter and Saturn, I could have a maxed Rhino or Trinity. 

 

My point is, yes it should be slow, but this seem a very long time for newbies, so long that the time for other frames become very short. Meaning you will spend the most time with your starter until you unlock every other frame and play your favourite one. 

[wkfire]

Agreed. Ember was the first Warframe I wanted to get and I was really excited about it. Turns out I was only able to make Ember weeks after actually getting all her parts because of the ridiculous material distribution. I ended up using Loki (my starter Warframe) through half of my Warframe career. When I finally was able to make the Warframes I wanted, it became partially pontless because I had already unlocked and done the majority of the planets available.

'Till this day, my most played Warframe is Loki and I sold it like a month ago. This shows that you are forced to stick to your starter Warframe for way too long. I would like to see a better material distribution in the future.

 

This is a good summary of what I'm talking about :)

[Mainabi]

wait a second, almost all of my frames were farmed without plat at all o.O I started the game with no plat at all and got my saryn without any plat at all (in very short time since the wf community is nice enough to carry people)

Edited September 10, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[wkfire]

just no, go farm plastid if u want clan weapon just like all of us doing the same.

 

What.

 

I'm talking about new players, not plastids, and not even clan weapons when new players are only ranked 0 to 2. 

[wkfire]

wait a second, almost all of my frames were farmed without plat at all o.O I started the game with no plat at all and got my saryn without any plat at all (in very short time since the wf community is nice enough to carry people)

 

Yep, me too. I only use plats for slots. The most logical answer to my thread would be to seek help from friends, clannies and Wf community in farming the locked resources. I'm only putting myself in the shoes of starters, mainly solo players because most newbies do not seek help nor join a clan (either too shy or don't know how). 

 

Another point is that, once you have the ability to farm these resources on your own, you only need to unlock the planets just for the boss to get the frame parts. The rest is really a piece of cake, which should not be the case because usually difficulty increases as you play. The high level stuffs (Nyx from Eris, Excal from Pluto, Frost from Ceres) should be the hardest to get, hardest to farm but yet they all feel the same to me because the parts require similar resources. 

[Mainabi]

Yep, me too. I only use plats for slots. The most logical answer to my thread would be to seek help from friends, clannies and Wf community in farming the locked resources. I'm only putting myself in the shoes of starters, mainly solo players because most newbies do not seek help nor join a clan (either too shy or don't know how). 

 

Another point is that, once you have the ability to farm these resources on your own, you only need to unlock the planets just for the boss to get the frame parts. The rest is really a piece of cake, which should not be the case because usually difficulty increases as you play. The high level stuffs (Nyx from Eris, Excal from Pluto, Frost from Ceres) should be the hardest to get, hardest to farm but yet they all feel the same to me because the parts require similar resources. 

I don't know game is designed for coop (yup coop is lacking but whatever) isn't it natural that you try to do it with other people? solo players will and have always a higher difficulty compared to coop players

[wkfire]

I don't know game is designed for coop (yup coop is lacking but whatever) isn't it natural that you try to do it with other people? solo players will and have always a higher difficulty compared to coop players

 

Yes I agree, But what about after you get your help and is able to do it alone from then on? Like I've mentioned, the rate of getting new frames is from too slow to too fast. After you get your first frame you will notice that there are times when 1 or 2 frames are sitting in your foundry waiting for the current frame to be maxed and then sold. (assuming the player has limited slots cos he's F2P) 

 

Edit: By that time, you usually have most contents unlocked but have not tried most of the warframes. Then you will only be playing missions like kappa or surivival for exp, and the grind fest begins, instead of unlocking contents while unlocking frames. 

Edited September 10, 2013 by wkfire

[CaptainohCaptain]

As a matter of fact, it should be like this. And it's more than easy considering the fact that I had harder time on Lua (Was pushed to join PUG) than making it to Raptor. Still, I'm far from being pro, I can't beat Hard in SS3.

[Mainabi]

Yes I agree, But what about after you get your help and is able to do it alone from then on? Like I've mentioned, the rate of getting new frames is from too slow to too fast. After you get your first frame you will notice that there are times when 1 or 2 frames are sitting in your foundry waiting for the current frame to be maxed and then sold. (assuming the player has limited slots cos he's F2P) 

 

Edit: By that time, you usually have most contents unlocked but have not tried most of the warframes. Then you will only be playing missions like kappa or surivival for exp, and the grind fest begins, instead of unlocking contents while unlocking frames. 

I agree to the point the difference between the last and first frame is pretty big, but instead of just lowering mats and make the last frame a grindfest there should be other ways for that,

 

and btw the overall problem isn't the difference in mats, the overall problem is just: it's not fun

Edited September 10, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[wkfire]

I agree to the point the difference between the last and first frame is pretty big, but instead of just lowering mats and make the last frame a grindfest there should be other ways for that,

 

and btw the overall problem isn't the difference in mats, the overall problem is just: it's not fun

Yeah because it is repetitive. You get frames from bosses, materials from farming. Then you make the frame, the same way for each and every frame. 

 

This might sound childish but, in pokemon, Articuno is from an ice cave, Moltres is from a volcano and Zapdos is from some electric plant (forgot xD). You can feel their uniqueness. 

 

Well, talking about pokemons, I realised both games allow players to choose 1 starter from 3. Lol. RNG in capturing wild pokemons too I guess. 

Anyway, the difference between the rate whereby you catch new pokemons vs the rate you unlock the content is not too big. I don't feel too difficult when I catch my first pokemon. And I don't feel too easy when I try to catch the higher level ones. 

 

Yeah I know WF is different from pokemon, but the concept of unlocking contents vs unlocking frames in WF doesn't seem quite right to me, especially after midgame (specifically after you get your first new frame)

Edited September 10, 2013 by wkfire

[Mainabi]

Yeah because it is repetitive. You get frames from bosses, materials from farming. Then you make the frame, the same way for each and every frame. 

 

This might sound childish but, in pokemon, Articuno is from an ice cave, Moltres is from a volcano and Zapdos is from some electric plant (forgot xD). You can feel their uniqueness. 

 

Well, talking about pokemons, I realised both games allow players to choose 1 starter from 3. Lol. RNG in capturing wild pokemons too I guess. 

Anyway, the difference between the rate whereby you catch new pokemons vs the rate you unlock the content is not too big. I don't feel too difficult when I catch my first pokemon. And I don't feel too easy when I try to catch the higher level ones. 

 

Yeah I know WF is different from pokemon, but the concept of unlocking contents vs unlocking frames in WF doesn't seem quite right to me, especially after midgame (specifically after you get your first new frame)

oh no no pokemon has pretty much content, for example if you want everything shiny (i'd say it's prime in wf) or some special mixes etc, pokemon has a different feel in grind 

[Inberun]

Let resource drop stick on faction instead of planet.

[Archistopheles]

Eris, Ceres, and Pluto are the only tough planets.

 

Granted I haven't tried to progress in some time, but an un-potatoed Braton can clear tier 2 planets.

[wkfire]

Eris, Ceres, and Pluto are the only tough planets.

 

Granted I haven't tried to progress in some time, but an un-potatoed Braton can clear tier 2 planets.

But we are talking about newbies here, first time experiencing warframe gameplay. Given the skills and experience of a veteran player, farming in any planet with low level weapons or frames won't be much of a problem.

[Archistopheles]

But we are talking about newbies here, first time experiencing warframe gameplay. Given the skills and experience of a veteran player, farming in any planet with low level weapons or frames won't be much of a problem.

 

With that philosophy, then the game is too hard no matter what you do because Jimmy 10 thumbs can't shoot straight.

[ThePresident777]

When I first started playing Warframe months ago, sometime before update 8, I didn't have this problem.  I would level up Warframes while hunting the next.  But, since then, the planets have been shuffled around and I'm not sure the Warframe components have been looked at.   So, it would not surprise me if the components are jumbled around and suddenly you have what you need to make something that you accumulated all the BPs for weeks ago and that you have a bunch of Warframe BPs ready to make as soon as you get the mats.  Then you start making them and you end up with a bunch of Warframes ready to go before you can level the second one.  You can get a lot more play time on your starter Warframe than you would have otherwise and you might not get enough time on each Warframe to really try them all out and compare them all.

[SoanoS]

Let's think about this for a moment... If you changed, let's say, control module out of the systems and neural sensors from the helmet, then the frame would be clumsy, have no shields, be manually operated and none of the abilities would work because there is no control module to run any of the associated sub-systems, and the frame would be blind as a bat because there is no neural sensors to give any data from outside world. You would have to cut eye-holes into the helmet and...

 

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee159/lintpicker/WW/man-robot.jpg

Edited September 10, 2013 by SoanoS