Why Does It Matter If Power Nerfs Make Endless Defense A Little Harder?

[Zakalwe]

Ok, so I think we can all agree the standard content (ie: the majority of this game) is ridiculously easy once you reach a certain power threshold?

Cool.

So, the only real place where the content becomes too hard to push forward is Endless Defense. And this is where certain powers make it possible to go further than our equipment would alone.

Apologies for brining up Bastille again, but it make a good example here.

Let's say for the sake of the argument, that the old Bastille let the average ED player reach Wave 50 on Xini before it became too hard.

Now, let's just say the new Bastille only let's the average player reach wave 35 before it gets to hard.

These numbers are not accurate, but that's not the point.

If the goalpost has been moved for everyone, why does it matter?

Wave 35 or ave 50, the rewards are random anyway.

And if the goalpost is moved for everyone, then the records will begin to reflect that too.

And won't players find new ways to keep pushing the goalpost anyway?

Edited September 10, 2013 by Zakalwe

[PsychedelicSnake]

I will not state my opinion on this matter because...

 

...I'm putting on a flame retardant suit.

[WhiteNekophus]

Because we have nothing to do than Defence mission

 

 

 

I think it doesn't really matter though, I just hate doing defences anymore.

(If you can't spam bastiles, then bring ogris and vortex... now game's piece of cake, you'll just have to look at your energy)

Edited September 10, 2013 by WhiteNekophus

[GIMO]

*read post topic*

 

[General_Krull]

12 enemies is too few, they need to raise the amount and fix the bastille because currently enemies not affected by it count toward its limit. 

[honeybadger]

12 enemies is too few, they need to raise the amount and fix the bastille because currently enemies not affected by it count toward its limit.

I think the unit count is fine, however, the unaffected mobs counting toward the cap is not ok.

[Archistopheles]

People don't like change, and hate having their crutches taken away.

[Zakalwe]

People don't like change, and hate having their crutches taken away.

 

 Judging by almost every discussion I've had since the changes, I think this is true.

[Relkin]

People don't like change, and hate having their crutches taken away.

This more or less sums up 90% of the BS.

[General_Krull]

People don't like change, and hate having their crutches taken away.

Change is not always good, why do people think it is? Unquestioning sheeple will be the death of this game.

[Dracosaber]

This more or less sums up 90% of the BS.

Truth.

 

This thread is perfect, it's exactly what I was thinking.

 

In any other mission, 12 units is more than fine. In Endless defense is the only time it matters, and Bastille still does it's job perfectly, to CC and relieve pressure. It just means now that it'll be more challenging to reach higher waves. How is that bad? Don't like the challenge? Don't try to reach so high. Want to reach higher and love challenge? You should be rejoicing for the change.

 

Honestly, some people are just never satisfied...

[General_Krull]

Truth.

 

This thread is perfect, it's exactly what I was thinking.

 

In any other mission, 12 units is more than fine. In Endless defense is the only time it matters, and Bastille still does it's job perfectly, to CC and relieve pressure. It just means now that it'll be more challenging to reach higher waves. How is that bad? Don't like the challenge? Don't try to reach so high. Want to reach higher and love challenge? You should be rejoicing for the change.

 

Honestly, some people are just never satisfied...

The limit wouldn't be so bad if it prioritized targets. Only reason people use bastille is to keep toxic ancients away, and now we can't even do that. I'm all for challenge but having too tough enemies capable of killing the pod by just standing there (and dying near it) is not good challenge, it's BS. 

Also 12 units is not nearly enough to justify it's cost. They really need to increase the amount.

[Wellwisher]

Just here to point out that bastille didn allow the average playr to go on to wave 50 on xini, but rather until he/she fell asleep of boredom.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Wellwisher

[merryfistmas]

People don't like change, and hate having their crutches taken away.

Yep, pretty much. I actually find Vauban more fun now since I have to use all my skills to get to higher waves (well I don't have to use bounce pads or teslas vs infested but they still can be useful).

[Zakalwe]

The limit wouldn't be so bad if it prioritized targets. Only reason people use bastille is to keep toxic ancients away, and now we can't even do that. I'm all for challenge but having too tough enemies capable of killing the pod by just standing there (and dying near it) is not good challenge, it's BS. 

Also 12 units is not nearly enough to justify it's cost. They really need to increase the amount.

You do realise, that at the point that it becomes too difficult to keep toic ancients away, you have reached the "end" of endless defense, right?

 

You do realise that Endless Defense is not Endless, and that even if you had unlimited Bastille, there would be a point that you couldn't progress past because the enemies were too strong.

Right?

[Archistopheles]

Change is not always good, why do people think it is? Unquestioning sheeple will be the death of this game.

 

It's lucky, then, that we have a plethora of players willing to speak out against obvious concerns.

[General_Krull]

You do realise, that at the point that it becomes too difficult to keep toic ancients away, you have reached the "end" of endless defense, right?

 

You do realise that Endless Defense is not Endless, and that even if you had unlimited Bastille, there would be a point that you couldn't progress past because the enemies were too strong.

Right?

That's not the point, the point is we should have skills to counter them, especially with the way armor works. And never mind the fact the ancients bug when they catch on fire and slide at the speed of sound towards you. 

Also, as I said before, bastille is broken now, it counts enemies immune to it as affected by it reducing its effectiveness. It has to be a bug.

[HomeyCDawg]

Most of the changes I've seen make me think that DE is slowly trying to move away from powers that allow endless CC and damage buffing to make endless defense less endless. In all the time I've been playing, the right group with the right frames can literally go for as long as they can sit at their computers because there are powers that allow endless exploitation of the enemy. Unlike the playerbase, I'm pretty sure DE doesn't want that.

 

Also I think with the upcoming survival missions we will soon have another mission to push us.

[Zakalwe]

That's not the point, the point is we should have skills to counter them, especially with the way armor works. And never mind the fact the ancients bug when they catch on fire and slide at the speed of sound towards you. 

Also, as I said before, bastille is broken now, it counts enemies immune to it as affected by it reducing its effectiveness. It has to be a bug.

It is the point though, we have skills to counter them until they get too strong... That point will always come, unless you just want wave after wave of enemies of the same strength?

[General_Krull]

It is the point though, we have skills to counter them until they get too strong... That point will always come, unless you just want wave after wave of enemies of the same strength?

To be honest I would like having wave after wave of enemies of the same strength if they had better AI and actually used different tactics to take out the pod. As it stands there's no reason to go more waves than 10 or 15. 

 

And I like it how you completely ignored my comment on how Bastille is broken.

[syle]

currently im split in my opinions about this game tbh

on one hand its awesome to play with op frames with maxed mods maxed weapon destroying rooms of enemies while doing wall jumps etc

on the other hand I just had a kappa game where I took my newly made banshee (we she was lvl 11 or so non potato just all spells and a aura) and bunch of new weapons since I figured ill just leech exp - so I took my new unranked unpotatoed lanka , dual zorens and I think dual bronco , well rng gods were cruel and have put me in a group with no godly frame or ppl with op weapons (or at least fully modded/potatoed) , and I had a fricking blast in that game , taking cover , trying to get all the mobs away from the console , sniping sonar points , ressing teammates etc

it was an awesome game

 

now the problem is that I enjoy both sides of the this coin

so I think it should stay as it is just new harder lvl content should be introduced - even just hp increase for the mobs - like making them lvl 150-200 would make it fine - especially with the new dmg remake

[Zakalwe]

To be honest I would like having wave after wave of enemies of the same strength if they had better AI and actually used different tactics to take out the pod. As it stands there's no reason to go more waves than 10 or 15. 

 

And I like it how you completely ignored my comment on how Bastille is broken.

Of course, intelligent gameplay design would be preferential. But then the difficulty wouldn't be artificial and we wouldn't need endless defense...

As for your comment on Bastille, do you mean it counts flying enemies?

[slappy330]

I will not state my opinion on this matter because...

 

...I'm putting on a flame retardant suit.

GIVE ME ONE