Patience > Skill

[ShatteringSkies]

¿Is it just me or this game becomes more and more boring the more you play? I don't think it's just me. And the way the game is designed, I think this should not be happening. 

¿How many of you guys have been playing for like an hour and then said "Men, I really don't know what to do. Everything is just too easy and boring"? I could bet it's not just me. And I think there is a really simple reason for that. 

In Warframe, patience beats skill. Think about this. I'll describe my situation: I've been playing since august, I'm MR16 and I've got almost every warframe in the game (this of course doesn't mean I've mastered them all, of course I have my own favourites). I've completed the system like, three months ago. I can easily defeat Hydrolists, but I can't do more than 1 per night because I'm lacking focus. I'm leveling up Fortuna's rep so I can also fight Profit Takers. But except for that... what else can I do? I mean... what can I do to make the game fun, worth of playing hours like I did a couple of months in the past? The game is just... monotonous. I mean, there are not real challenges. What can you do when you want real challenges? Maybe you can recruit a good squad, organize it and then go to Mot for, like, 2 hours and then suffer like hell. Of course, that means you have to just wait 40 or 50 minutes before it gets actually challenging. So, it's really a matter of patience instead of gaming skill. They added Arbitrations not so long before, that was an improvement. But Arbitrations have the same issue: defenses are way harder than survivals or interceptions, so nobody plays them; survivals are so damn easy that if you have a decent squad you can play for an hour without even sweating. And there are some broken nodes too, of course: Xini's infested interception can be 'hacked' by picking 4 Limbos (I made up to 12 rounds when I was still MR6, with a decent team with two Limbos, and end up quitting because we were all bored). 

What I'm trying to say is, the game doesn't provide real difficulty, it just tests the player's patience. That's not right. Wouldn't be better, for example, being able to play survivals with level>200 enemies, where is difficult to survive even 5 minutes? I personally think it would, and I think most of the long term players will agree. 

Another topic to discuss are the rewards, of course. It just doesn't seem right to me that the game allows you to play 100 Belenus defense rounds if you want it, with the enemies getting stronger but the rewards being the same. At the end of the day, high level games are just not worth to be played. 

I'm not proposing to make the game so impossible that new players can't do anything, but just stating the obvious: high level players should be allowed to have real challenges. Put your head on it and you will come with some easy and possible solutions. One, for example, could be choosing the difficulty of the mission on every node between three or four possible nodes. This could even allow some interesting possibilities, like having to complete the system in different levels of difficulty (something like old-school Diablo II gameplay). Or there can be better options, I don't know, but I'm sure the game could become a lot more challenging and fun with some minor addings like this. Please consider it.

Merry Christmas

[Fishyflakes]

I think it's been said a bajillion times.

In PvE games, challenges added to the game will just entice players to form hyper efficient metas (5x Tridolons?) and remove any challenge they just added.

If anything, it will just cause some frames or items to become nerfed i.e Banshee, Ember, Ash, Chroma, etc.

Even if there are level 200 enemies it's going to be the same mechanics.

You should be asking or thinking of new mechanics for the game, like how they started and have been working on Railjack.
Conservation, Fishing, open world exploration (K-drives, fragment hunting), Atmosphere arch-weapons, melee 3.0, relics....
All of these things come from ideas people have when they realize that Void Keys and long missions are fking boring as hell.

But no.

Thanks to players like you they still attempt to appease you guys with sleep-inducing modes like Arbitrations and Sanctuary Onslaught.

SIGH oh well at least they're good EXP and have some unique rewards. (Fashionframe endgame bub)

Edited December 24, 2018 by Fishyflakes

[Syasob]

Removing mods works wonders, you know?

Go kill tridolons with MK-1 Braton, you suddenly get too much challenge to handle for an average player.

[Daviodraan]

hace 1 hora, Fishyflakes dijo:

I think it's been said a bajillion times.

In PvE games, challenges added to the game will just entice players to form hyper efficient metas (5x Tridolons?) and remove any challenge they just added.

If anything, it will just cause some frames or items to become nerfed i.e Banshee, Ember, Ash, Chroma, etc.

Even if there are level 200 enemies it's going to be the same mechanics.

You should be asking or thinking of new mechanics for the game, like how they started and have been working on Railjack.
Conservation, Fishing, open world exploration (K-drives, fragment hunting), Atmosphere arch-weapons, melee 3.0, relics....
All of these things come from ideas people have when they realize that Void Keys and long missions are fking boring as hell.

But no.

Thanks to players like you they still attempt to appease you guys with sleep-inducing modes like Arbitrations and Sanctuary Onslaught.

SIGH oh well at least they're good EXP and have some unique rewards. (Fashionframe endgame bub)

Endurance runs don't hurt the game half as bad as you say.

There's a reason D.E gave us endless missions, even though rewards don't scale, and enemy scaling is broken, fixing that would improve the game for everyone.

Giving enemies new mechanics is a great idea, i agree, but the last time they did that, not to long ago, we ended up with a glass canon faction (corpus) that is totally capable of stunlocking you AND one shot you, which forces you to: 

a. Use a tank frame with invulnerability (rhino, nezha, valkyr)
b. Use a stealth frame (ignore me on this one if you want to go spider hunting -They see you-)

c. Use a few, top tier control frame 

d. Roll like freaking Sonic every second (metal Sonic i guess? jk)

The game is already forcing you into a meta if you want to go past early/midgame, or else you'll have an unfairly hard time.

And that's exactly why most people, just don't do that, they don't go past 20, they don't go past objective completion to,farm drops or resources or something like that, they rarely repeat bounties, they don't go 1h survival, and never go to any boss fight once they got the frame, cause there is no reward, mid to late game (cause there is no late/endgame) is already meta af, and it's way easier to farm the first 20 minutes or rounds and extract.

 

From everything you just said, only railjack and melee 3.0 are actually doing something to improve the game or give us something new.

We got fishing and mining back in poe, conservation is another boring activity that loses all meaning once you got like, 10 rewards, and now they want you to search for the lore in fragments, again, which is an easier and lazy way to tell a story instead of giving us the oportunity to, idk, enjoy a LONG, open world, cinematic quest, with actual Deep info on the lore and stuff. ( OR, here is an idea, do like some rpgs, and make us fight super hard bosses to get that sweet, Deep, magical lore, like, retrieving data from the base they defend, or something like that, but hey, don't make the boss invincible every 10 seconds or have cheap one shots if above lvl 80)

Also, K-drives are useless, just look cool, and arch weapons were already in the game.

 

You know what would help the game?
More challenges, and rewards, on modes and maps we already have, instead of releasing more and more new stuff, while at least 70% of the game needs some serious polish.

 

I love Warframe, 2.5 k hours and I plan to keep it up, but there is one huge mistake they make every time: they ignore what they already have to work with (current or, older, now gone, modes), and take to long to fix what is broken (pretty much all of the dmg and time investment / reward balance in the game)

 

Thanks to players like him, that keep asking for improvement, polish, and better rewards, D.E is actually changing for the better now, although really slowly (making the game slightly less grindy in fortuna, but way harder and longer,and with more variety than poe, for example)

And arbitrations? you mean the mode that suffers from artificial difficulty ( more invincibility, like most bosses) and poor scaling? yeah, it's because it's literally a normal mission with annoying drones and worse scaling but better base lvl, kinda like e.s.o too.

Fix the base game, fix the rest of the game, it's that easy

We don't need more, we need better. 

Better A.I, better rewards, better ways to tell the lore, better scaling.

They need to work with what they have.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Daviodraan

[Daviodraan]

hace 50 minutos, Syasob dijo:

Removing mods works wonders, you know?

Go kill tridolons with MK-1 Braton, you suddenly get too much challenge to handle for an average player.

Sure, let D.E keep enjoying the comunity doing it's job at making the game enjoyable in the long run, even slightly hard, or interesting after a few months.

That Will help the game grow.

 

-Trading Sarcasm (I hope)- 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Daviodraan

[Ekemeister]

On 2018-12-23 at 9:50 PM, Fishyflakes said:

I think it's been said a bajillion times.

In PvE games, challenges added to the game will just entice players to form hyper efficient metas (5x Tridolons?) and remove any challenge they just added.

If anything, it will just cause some frames or items to become nerfed i.e Banshee, Ember, Ash, Chroma, etc.

Even if there are level 200 enemies it's going to be the same mechanics.

You should be asking or thinking of new mechanics for the game, like how they started and have been working on Railjack.
Conservation, Fishing, open world exploration (K-drives, fragment hunting), Atmosphere arch-weapons, melee 3.0, relics....
All of these things come from ideas people have when they realize that Void Keys and long missions are fking boring as hell.

But no.

Thanks to players like you they still attempt to appease you guys with sleep-inducing modes like Arbitrations and Sanctuary Onslaught.

SIGH oh well at least they're good EXP and have some unique rewards. (Fashionframe endgame bub)

In service / industrial "CPI" (continual process improvement), there's a concept that customer feedback is not always articulate. A customer will ask for something that doesn't fulfill that customer's desire due to inarticulation.

How does this apply here? Boring dog show game modes where the player is a fox hound. Player feedback becomes a request for higher enemy stat numbers and new locales... Despite the fact that the player desires to make decesions like an operator, the player / customer generated feedback requests for more dogshows.

@ shatteringskies you might think endless runs are particularly fun. Yes and for some, they are. Mostly, it's the same game with a smaller margin for error. Great for the hardcore, improving skill, and stress testing builds, but not all that fun. Just the same game with possible instagibs out of your blindspot and plateauing spawn count.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Ekemeister