The Market. And Why, In Its Current State, Will Be Warframe's Downfall.

[AkosAmun]

This doesn't really bother me because I never buy weapons, I craft them.

dude you don't need to buy the new weapons ever heard of a bp you can use little money cause all you need is a little plat for slots, potatoes, forma etc.

you only have to use small amounts of money for that and DE makes reasonable prices

edit:and colour packs and other items are easy to attain with little money or none

You guys are missing the whole point. Read the whole thread and see what the explanations are. I also craft everything. But DE would get more people to be excited about buying more plat as they use up what they have if it didn't cost $25 worth of plat for a warframe and $5 for a different warframe. They are unbalanced as far as cost/benefit ratios go. I have all the frames except Nekros, I use some more than others because my play style utilizes some abilities more than others. If I had wasted all my money on buying all of them to see what I liked and then got rid of them, that's ~$200+ on just the warframes not the slots or the reactors or cosmetics. And does it change the game that much?

Crafting is pretty easy to do, just time consuming. Buying them should be much easier than paying for the equivalent time it takes to farm them. they should be $5-$10 and weapons $2-$5. The weapons like the Soma ($17) cost more than most warframes! Why is it so expensive? Other games give you more bang for your buck, but on the other side, most games don't let you craft everything you want (if you have the months of available time to invest). I have played warframe daily since march, but for the last week.. I haven't logged in more than once. There's no joy in it anymore. I want to play through to get Nekros, but at an hour per boss fight, after countless nav farming missions, to MAYBE get the drop I need is not worth it to me with school and work and life. So instead, i'd like to buy it, but I won't.

Edited September 25, 2013 by AkosAmun

[Scheifen]

I'm just gonna toss this out here...

 

You know that "Every Warframe in the Game" Bundle that was 'on sale' the other day?

 

...I bought a new microscope for the price of that thing...

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I'm just gonna toss this out here...

 

You know that "Every Warframe in the Game" Bundle that was 'on sale' the other day?

 

...I bought a new microscope for the price of that thing...

True, but it was also a good deal (in warframe, 182 plat per frame when not on sale, 130 plat when on sale roughly)

[CapnFusterCluck]

It's all on perspective. 

Personally, I don't think Soma is worth 20 bucks. Yes. 20 bucks. I would much rather craft it. But there are some people out there who don't have the patience and the time to get all the materials. 
Soma is a purrrty OP weapon though. Crit chance, damage and elemental mods FTW

[BoompigXD]

The Market will be the downfall of this game? Not, the lack of challenge, or endgame, or good A.I. No. It's something, that, if you want to shell out the cash, to get it early you can, at a high cost, which is the cost of convience. That is going to be the downfall of this game?

 

 

 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

The Market will be the downfall of this game? Not, the lack of challenge, or endgame, or good A.I. No. It's something, that, if you want to shell out the cash, to get it early you can, at a high cost, which is the cost of convience. That is going to be the downfall of this game?

 

Eventually it would be. Right now? No. In the future if they don't fix the prices? Yeah. The cost of convenience is paying with real cash, instead of in game items. This doesn't mean they should charge a ridiculous amount for things though, speed has almost nothing to do with prices in a digital market (with the exception of acquiring new items as soon as the appear). Speed mostly applies to real life, i.e. overnight shipping compared to any other shipping.

[CapnFusterCluck]

What? More expensive items mean more in ONE purchase, but I don't see your point here.

 

There aren't many F2Ps that don't have big backing behind it, and SO WHAT? Even if they didn't have big backing behind it, why does that mean they only have reasonable prices because of the big backing? FFS man, make a real argument, or admit you're wrong. I gave F2Ps that do it right, and you come up with "but they have big backers!"? Try again with a REAL argument.

 

But... League does have a big backing with it's large international player base. Not many people are into the genre of gaming that Warframe is (dungeon-ing sort of game). 

Sure, Warframe and LoL are two F2P games, but they belong in completely different genres. LoL is a MOBA (a genre still widely popular today, thus explaining LoL's large backing) and Warframe is a dungeon game (not so popular for reasons unknown to me). Riot doesn't make the prices high for League champs because they have a large player base (in which many of their players are the ones who just outright buy the characers with RP), whereas Warframe has high prices because they have a lower player base. 

Another reason why Champs in League are cheap is because there are many champs which fit a variety of roles. Along with the champs, they have different skins that usually sell for the same price as the champ (975 RP and cheaper). Warframe lacks the variety (for now) because they can only come up with so many unique Warframes with unique abilities (honestly, we think of ideas for Warframes that essentially have the same skillset as another, but with different names and graphics). 

I don't see how you can compare the two. Their genres, their specific player base... It's completely different. Barely anyone likes dungeoning games, and everyone is into that MoBA genre anyways. 

[stVillain]

ya... i'm not so sure DOWNFALL is the right word to use.

 

but way to be melodramatic. thumbs UP

 

tl;dr

 

because honestly if you can't make a point without the melodrama maybe you should rework your point.

[IcyCold]

I'd say these prices are sticking until at the very least founder packs are gone (since those give you the best bang for your buck)

 

Also all those people hording that plat (from the founders for good reason)

[KvotheTheArcane1]

But... League does have a big backing with it's large international player base. Not many people are into the genre of gaming that Warframe is (dungeon-ing sort of game). 

Eh, warframe has 3-4 million players... That's pretty big.

 

Sure, Warframe and LoL are two F2P games, but they belong in completely different genres. LoL is a MOBA (a genre still widely popular today, thus explaining LoL's large backing) and Warframe is a dungeon game (not so popular for reasons unknown to me). Riot doesn't make the prices high for League champs because they have a large player base (in which many of their players are the ones who just outright buy the characers with RP), whereas Warframe has high prices because they have a lower player base. 

1. So what? Different genres mean nothing. F2P is F2P and the market works the same way.

 

2. WF isn't a "dungeon" game whatever you mean by that. It's a Fast Paced/Movement TPS, with some minor loot/craft mechanics (as in, resources drop, you use those to craft weapons/frames)

 

3. No, Riot makes prices affordable because they understand that's how to make lots of money. Warframe should do this too.

 

4. You've clearly never heard of price elasticity. It means Higher prices = fewer sales but more cash per sale regardless of how big your player base is, or what you're even selling. However, the opposite is also true, lower prices = more sales, but less cash per sale. Somewhere between free and $10,000,000 there is a magic price for items in warframe that makes them the most money.

[ArbitraryDemise]

The problem is that there is no pricing curve, only a pricing cliff.

 

Most games have some items that can be obtained cheaply, and then you have progressively more expensive options.

 

Whether or not it is better to sell a few expensive items, or many cheap items is extremely debatable; I personally know of no studies that look at this issue in this context.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

The problem is that there is no pricing curve, only a pricing cliff.

 

Most games have some items that can be obtained cheaply, and then you have progressively more expensive options.

 

Whether or not it is better to sell a few expensive items, or many cheap items is extremely debatable; I personally know of no studies that look at this issue in this context.

There's a "theory" (kinda like the theory of gravity,  it's not a "theory" as most people think of it) called price elasticity as I described above.

[ArbitraryDemise]

There's a "theory" (kinda like the theory of gravity,  it's not a "theory" as most people think of it) called price elasticity as I described above.

 

I see, and it is something that was worthwhile for me to do some reading about.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I see, and it is something that was worthwhile for me to do some reading about.

Yup, and it'd do DE some good (imo) to read up on it (if they don't know what it is) and then rework their market. Darvo is a step in the right direction, but at the same time, they kinda got a marathon to run here. (and the longer they delay it, the longer and harder it will be)

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

As far as weapon crafting is concerned, I feel there is something severely wrong with the fact that I can buy a weapon blueprint (obtain from alert, clan etc), rush it for around 25-50 plat, buy a potato for it, and then buy a slot if necessary for far less money than what it would cost in pure plat (IE Soma being 67 total compared to its 265 or whatever it is; ~5$ compared to a whopping 15$) . This *really* turns me away from actually buying a weapon with how much cheaper it is to just do it that way. 

[nekrojiji]

You can have all of those witout spending 1 platinum.

 

Platinum, in this game, is for when you don't want to wait. If you are willing to wait the game is totaly free.

[Luminati07]

You can have all of those witout spending 1 platinum.

 

Platinum, in this game, is for when you don't want to wait. If you are willing to wait the game is totaly free.

Just because you can acquire something for free doesn't give DE a pass when it comes to the real money portion of the market. It's irrelevant.

[Raidyr]

Earlier this week I bought Max Payne, Max Payne 2, and Max Payne 3 on Amazon for $15.

I could have spent that same amount on Warframe and gotten one Warframe, or one weapon.

There is a problem with this picture.

[Luminati07]

Earlier this week I bought Max Payne, Max Payne 2, and Max Payne 3 on Amazon for $15.

I could have spent that same amount on Warframe and gotten one Warframe, or one weapon.

There is a problem with this picture.

Many people will claim that comparing these kinds of purchases to F2P games is an unfair call, and they're right (to an extent).

 

But, despite people saying that, it just doesn't change the fact that the prices are a joke.

 

I don't like the comparison but, I bought BF4 for $60.

$60 would get me what, 1075 Platinum or so?

 

Now, what is more worthwhile, a game that can give me upwards of 200+ hours of playtime, or enough platinum to buy three Warframes?

 

Again, it's not a fair comparison, but that doesn't change the fact that the value to money ratio is utter garbage.

[Dtuck]

I'd prefer if the prices in the market stayed the same. If they were any lower it would feel as if there would be no point in playing a vast part of the game (farming materials and buying blueprints to craft new equipment). All it would do is appease the people that are extremely disappointed they cant quickly bypass an excellent part of the game with the wave of a piece of plastic. 

Edited October 31, 2013 by Dtuck

[Dtuck]

 

 

Now, what is more worthwhile, a game that can give me upwards of 200+ hours of playtime, or enough platinum to buy three Warframes?

 

 

 

It depends on how you play the game/if you enjoy playing it or not. For someone three wareframes might be 200+ hours of content, its completely dependent on the specific person.

 

My point is that the platinum route is optional, if you don't enjoy the game enough to actually play the game and farm the mats/craft via the foundry you should either do something else that brings you enjoyment or just fork over the cash.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Dtuck

[Wahooo]

Again, it's not a fair comparison, but that doesn't change the fact that the value to money ratio is utter garbage.

 

Also doesn't change the fact that everything usable in the game is attainable free.  You can't just blow that off.

 

It has everything to do with it.  Only slots, and maybe potatoes.  That is all that needs money.  Since this is the case it makes market pricing moot for anyone who doesn't want to spend that much money.

[SoulEchelon]

Notice how the main things that cost the highest in the marketplace are also things you can craft/farm: Weapons and Warframes.

 

Whereas items that can't be farmed cost far less. Alt helms are in the middle because the only way you can get them for "free" is through alerts.

 

There's a reason why they did it this way. The prices for farmable equipment is so high because they're targetting a particular audience with them. That audience is the people with jobs and money. Such people usually don't have enough time on their hands to farm certain items and materials. Thus, they check the marketplace and nab a few weapons, warframes, or materials from there, because for one reason or another they feel they don't have time to farm them normally.

 

The rest of the prices on the other hand, seem oddly cheap. This is because these items are targetted toward everyone, including people with time on their hands. Most of these items are cosmetic, or for convenience.

 

The fact of the matter, is that every single weapon or warframe in the game can be crafted and farmed. People with alot of time on their hands happily do so, and balk at how much they cost on the market. DE did this on purpose - these people are the backbone for the game. They continue to play for long periods of time farming these items and equipment. That means a larger playerbase and a ton of people constantly playing instead of people like our "rich" players only logging in for a few moments at a time thanks to their busy schedules.

 

It's hard to see what I'm talking about here, I know. It may not make much sense, but in the grand scheme of things...this particular system works. It gives incentive to the more "Well off" players to purchase items, while giving incentive to the more "Lots of time on my hands" players to farm it out and stay in game for long periods of time. If the prices were low, more people would buy these items, sure. But those same people will be angrily posting about how they have everything already and there's nothing to do.

[Luminati07]

Also doesn't change the fact that everything usable in the game is attainable free.  You can't just blow that off.

 

It has everything to do with it.  Only slots, and maybe potatoes.  That is all that needs money.  Since this is the case it makes market pricing moot for anyone who doesn't want to spend that much money.

The fact that things can be acquired for free means sweet F*** all (excuse my language).

People use that argument as if it just gives a pass for the horrible prices, which it does not. And should not.

 

It's not a matter of what "needs" money to obtain. It's a matter of simply unreasonable pricing.

[menolous]

if we all step back and look at this, we're spending real money on little 1's and 0's on the internet. so really when a weapon is over 300 plat i sort of go "oh... well i'm off to farm now" however to counterpoint this... we get these items FOREVER. as evidenced by the recent removal of a few weapons from the market eventually most of this stuff won't be in the game anymore except what player hold on to. my biggest issue with paying for the items isn't the prices... it's slots. with 50 free plat you can get a couple weapon slots and a warframe slot. done. which means that i can't hold on to my weapons when i want to upgrade. i JUST hit level 7 (last night actually) and i would have had WAY more issues getting there if i didn't happen to be a grand master who bought all the frames. if the slots were cheaper or even just costed a ridiculous amount of credits that would make the free to play a lot more interesting. e.g. 1 weapon slot= 1,000,000 credits (not that hard to save up if you run keys) 

 

sorry for the rambling...