Why Ember is only able to competitive with weapons, not warframes - just for reminder

[DroopingPuppy]

50 minutes ago, Legault said:

No, it didn't. Ember continues to be one of the best star chart clearing frames because she has high AOE damage that doesn't impede movement or has any other requirements (like Equinox and Saryn). Her base damage and multipliers are so high you can actually get away with running Overextended if you're just clearing trash. She also greatly benefits from every one of the situational Strength mods like Energy Conversion.  

For more defensive purposes her crowd control remains strong. Accelerant is a room-wide 1-2+ second stun, enemies targeted by WoF often die before they stop panicking and Firequake optionally makes you impervious to melee units or anything else that comes near you. 

Recasting WoF is quickly and easily done in any situations that ask for range. Accelerant significantly reduces the casting animation and both skills can be used while airborne. 

She achieves all this with two abilities. She could benefit from a (partially) reworked kit, but she's nowhere near a weak state unless you're going endless.

Not really sir. At first, for clearing star chart Equinox and Octavia are superior, for they don't lose the range. On the level that even abilities with Overextended can kill everything, they are even better with much longer range than Ember as well.

And I don't think that most warframes are not have a card such as doing as much as Accelerant's cc part does.

Also, recasting WoF is time-consuming job consider you need to do that for every 6 to 8 seconds. The casting time and recasting time itself is not so long, but you need to do that for every 6 to 8 seconds so it is quite problematic. Only if it is 'one handed' motion then I may consider recasting WoF, but no, it isn't either. Just for cast an area damage dealing ability then forget, there are much more superior choices.

Well, I agreed on Ember is the most 'cheap' star chart cleaner. But no, for now all she can is no more than that. And for my experience, even Volt does it quite well.

Edited April 2, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[Legault]

1 minute ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Not really sir. At first, for star chart cleaning Equinox and Octavia are superior, for they don't lose the range. With the level that even abilities with Overextended can kill anything, they are even better with much longer range than Ember as well.

And I don't think that most warframes are not have a card such as doing as much as Accelerant's cc part does.

Also, recasting WoF is time-consuming job consider you need to do that for every 6 to 8 seconds. The casting time and recasting time itself is not so long, but you need to do that for every 6 to 8 seconds so it is quite problematic.

Octavia... lol. And no, Equinox is not superior, just more situational, favoring large areas over tight corridors. You say recasting WoF is time consuming but then ignore the need to constantly recast Maim (which has a significantly longer animation even with the mandatory Natural Talent mod) and manually kill enemies to store damage. And no, you don't need to recast WoF every 6 seconds. It's completely dependent on enemy position, tileset and your own ability to maneuver around the map. Unless you're completely clueless what different tilesets look like.       

And no hardly any frame has CC as versatile as Accelerant when it comes to speedrunning. Most of them are not instant or limited by range and/or animations. 

 

[Solarsyphon]

I think they should give ember an over charge mechanic. It would basically just be combining the charge thing on her 4 with her passive. The higher the charge the more damage all her abilities do. It would actually be really simple to put in all it would take is triggering a fire proc on ember when she gets max charge on her 4, that would trigger her passive. 

[DroopingPuppy]

11 hours ago, Legault said:

Octavia... lol. And no, Equinox is not superior, just more situational, favoring large areas over tight corridors. You say recasting WoF is time consuming but then ignore the need to constantly recast Maim (which has a significantly longer animation even with the mandatory Natural Talent mod) and manually kill enemies to store damage. And no, you don't need to recast WoF every 6 seconds. It's completely dependent on enemy position, tileset and your own ability to maneuver around the map. Unless you're completely clueless what different tilesets look like.       

And no hardly any frame has CC as versatile as Accelerant when it comes to speedrunning. Most of them are not instant or limited by range and/or animations. 

 

Their basic area of effect is almost same, and only Ember is penalized to reduced range.

Also, Maim does not requires you to recast for every 6 to 8 seconds to utilize it. You can pop it when you want and even if you are sustain it longer it only consumes more energy, but nothing to do with the range.

And, no, she need to recast constantly in order to keep her barely enough range. Her range is already short enough and it is just enough to catch the enemy in WoF as well as shoot them, and hope for avoid enemy melees. If it is reduced she can't use it at all unless she is a tank frame.

 

Accelerant's CC is not so hard either, you know.

Edited April 3, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[Legault]

On 2019-04-03 at 6:47 AM, DroopingPuppy said:

Their basic area of effect is almost same, and only Ember is penalized to reduced range.

Also, Maim does not requires you to recast for every 6 to 8 seconds to utilize it. You can pop it when you want and even if you are sustain it longer it only consumes more energy, but nothing to do with the range.

And, no, she need to recast constantly in order to keep her barely enough range. Her range is already short enough and it is just enough to catch the enemy in WoF as well as shoot them, and hope for avoid enemy melees. If it is reduced she can't use it at all unless she is a tank frame.

 

Accelerant's CC is not so hard either, you know.

You ought to try playing Equinox and Octavia more, because your used percentage is leaking all over the place. 

[DroopingPuppy]

4 hours ago, Legault said:

You ought to try playing Equinox and Octavia more, because your used percentage is leaking all over the place. 

Well, but still I can see their stats and the fellow frames through my gameplay.

[HankHuley]

Energy Conversion....

Is now useless on Ember, since you need to cast and recast again and again for not loosing you'r range (this is the badest point here) and get every time a blue ball for +50% dmg...

 

And since she have not enough mod slot for have HP or Shield augment, i prefere remove it and win 1 précious mod slot for maximise the range since she will be recuced by half.

And you still need WoF augment that why range is also important, more you hit the enemy sooner (range) more they will stay on ground, and more the CC and little damage will be, and fire damage status will do the job, fire is really effective on every ennemy only a low % is resistant to fire.

 

And of course énergie cost reduction maximise too, since you will cast and recast and recast, but every cast cost you extra energy 12.5 if a remember well.

(and yes cast stop and recast stop and recast... is not fun at all, hum.. probably building a macro on it if it's not fobidden.)

So basically you will run out of energy with only WoF spell 0.75 energy per sec : 11 cast (11 x 12.5 = 125 energy + 11 x 7.5 sec/energy = 220 energy => 82.5 sec.)

 

And running slow with 300 HP and 375 shield and 125 armor in middle of lvl 90 - 100 ennemy is highly dangerous,

But this is also highly rewarding when you see them stuck on the ground, just too bad that hit only 5 target per sec, and you will sweep the ground as much as you'r ennemy if you are not cover, since you will be terribly slow in running...

 

Forget about power anyway 0 x 2 = 0 so this "up" is totaly uselesss and on high armored / lvl, enemy only the fire status will do damage.

And honestly you don't need power for clean trash since she does damage over time...

 

Augment of WoF for CC this is the only interesting thing she got, and when you need more power just use 2nd, and 3rd spell as well for more direct fire damage.

 

First spell is totaly useless too slow too weak, My weapon do better and free.

 

My weapon : I use Javlok in main weapon who throw fireball... ( so no need spell 1 if my weapon do it :/... ) for set myself on fire,

That put in use my useless passiv, who restore a little +35 % power, and regen my energy and you will need that A LOT !

But the bad news, i hurt myself hard so i need to be really carfull for not killing myself, i don't have all the % of status mod for riffle actually but i work on it.

 

I really think the worst thing for ember it's her lost of range, all the other stuff can be manageable with the good build, a little mod slot for more life will be good of course, but actually if you do you will sacrifice something more. You have to much stats to maximise, and too much to no go much down, and for that you will need to sacrifice A LOT of ability.

 

I sacrifice survavibility, running speed, and power.

For maximise Range (halfed), and energy cost reduction (doubled).

 

That put my range to 42 Meter (21 overheat) and my 'basic' damage to 340 (680 overheat), 29% status effect,

Armor 125

Shield 375 => not enough mod slot

PV 300 => not enough mod slot

Sprint 1.1 => not enough mod slot

Energy 225 => not enough mod slot

"spell time ?" 63 %  ==> You need to not going below if not you will use too much energy.

Efficacity 175%  ==> You need not going below if not you will use too much energy.

Range 280 % ==> make you choice damage or range. => (140 % overheat)

Power 85% ==> make you choice damage or range. => (190 % overheat)

 

But you can, make full damage and being a real barbarian... plus is you use spell 2 but, you will hit nobody cause to your non existant range.

 

I make a second build based on 2nd spell that work well in support based on "spell time" but you need fire weapon to work with it.

 

 

In my opinon ember could be really good, if WoF do more damage more the enemy are close to ember, and do less damage more far of ember, without destroying her range for free.

If the enemy are at 99% of her range so he will take 1% of her damage. Quite simple, and that not will clean all little trash along as you not run close to them

(depend of you'r power of course)

Like that a mélée build could be interesting...

Totaly change the first useless spell for something else, or at least make it charge ultra more fast, or put a 100% fire status effect or something like that.

Edited April 5, 2019 by HankHuley