Remove death animations or add innate punch through for weapons, enough to pierce any one enemy

[Basalto]

13 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Uhh, maybe try Split Chamber instead of using Hammer Shot.

The Head multiplier is x2 on crit no matter how high you boost the crit damage. Crit modding doesn't give exponential increases to headshot/weakspot damage.

Sacrificing 30% elemental to slot a 60/60 instead of a 90 and putting Multishot gives more damage PER CLICK and more status per click with your build.

Taiiat is absolutely correct here.

Taiiat is absolutely wrong, because removing Hammer Shot on my Tiberon for Split Chamber would trade a guaranteed 9,5x crit damage for a 10% chance of not registering a shot on, once again, semi-automatic fire. I have to apparently unnecessarily keep stressing this because not having 100% multishot on a semi-automatic weapon is painful and a gamble, as opposed to the crit damage already being inserted in the gamble of a crit. My semi-automatic fire is enough for a non-crit to not interfere, but not enough for Split Chamber to not interfere. I'm not using Split Chamber on Tiberon Prime because my experience with Split Chamber and semi-automatic weapons screams that it's a bad thing, period.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Basalto

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Basalto said:

Taiiat is absolutely wrong, because removing Hammer Shot on my Tiberon for Split Chamber would trade a guaranteed 9,5x crit damage for a 10% chance of not registering a shot on, one again, semi-automatic fire. I have to apparently unnecessarily keep stressing this because not having 100% multishot on a semi-automatic weapon is painful and a gamble, as opposed to the crit damage already being inserted in the gamble of a crit. My semi-automatic fire is enough for a non-crit to not interfere, but not enough for Split Chamber to not interfere. I'm not using Split Chamber on Tiberon Prime because my experience with Split Chamber and semi-automatic weapons screams that it's a bad thing, period.

The amount of wrong ... just ... wow. I don't even know what I am even reading here XD

Of course, if it floats your boat. good for ya. But I will just say, if you do the math, the chance of a non crit (leading to base damage as your 9.6 multi is irrelevant) is 25% (assuming only Pointstrike), higher than the chance of a non crit AND non split (again leading to base damage that is the SAME as a non crit since the 7.5% multi is irrelevant and you shoot one bullet, as aforementioned) of 2.5% (25% of 10%) (assuming only Pointstrike and Split Chamber) as these are independent events. The conclusion is that only one in 40 bullets doing base damage is definitely better and more consistent than 1 in 4 bullets doing base damage, which is the exact same in both cases.

Elemental mods or Heavy Caliber would give the consistency you want, not Hammer Shot.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Guest

[Basalto]

3 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

The amount of wrong ... just ... wow. I don't even know what I am even reading here XD

Of course, if it floats your boat. good for ya. But I will just say, if you do the math, the chance of a non crit (leading to base damage as your 9.6 multi is irrelevant) is 25% (assuming only Pointstrike), higher than the chance of a non crit AND non split (again leading to base damage that is the SAME as a non crit since the 7.5% multi is irrelevant and you shoot one bullet, as aforementioned) of 2.5% (25% of 10%) (assuming only Pointstrike and Split Chamber) as these are independent events. The conclusion is that only one in 40 bullets doing base damage is definitely better and more consistent than 1 in 4 bullets doing base damage, which is the exact same in both cases.

Elemental mods or Heavy Caliber would give the consistency you want, not Hammer Shot.

Heavy Caliber reduces accuracy; again, semi-automatic and headshots. And in case the native resolution picture was hard to read, I'm using three different elemental mods to get corrosive and cold. But hey, guess effortlessly downing level 100 eximi is just "wrong XD". It works, it works very well, I only have one gamble instead of two, and thus its consistency is way better than the "if u dont use split chamber ur rong lol" meme.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Basalto said:

Heavy Caliber reduces accuracy; again, semi-automatic and headshots. And in case the native resolution picture was hard to read, I'm using three different elemental mods to get corrosive and cold. But hey, guess effortlessly downing level 100 eximi is just "wrong XD". It works, it works very well, I only have one gamble instead of two, and thus its consistency is way better than the "if u dont use split chamber ur rong lol" meme.

As I said, did you even do the mathematics? If you can hit heads so consistently, Argon Scope would still give more of that consistency you insist on than Hammer Shot. Your argument is still a moot point either way.

I don't need to brag, but level 100 Eximi isn't anything to be proud about in WF.

[Basalto]

5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

As I said, did you even do the mathematics? If you can hit heads so consistently, Argon Scope would still give more of that consistency you insist on than Hammer Shot. Your argument is still a moot point either way.

I don't need to brag, but level 100 Eximi isn't anything to be proud about in WF.

I don't have Argon Scope. My argument didn't even need to exist because you people had to keep twisting and derailing the thread into anything but the actual topic. Kinda reminds me why I left this place all those years ago.

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, Basalto said:

I don't have Argon Scope. My argument didn't even need to exist because you people had to keep twisting and derailing the thread into anything but the actual topic. Kinda reminds me why I left this place all those years ago.

I kinda hate to say it, but the two builds you showed are kinda bad.  Well bad is somewhat strong. Let's say they aren't as efficient as they could be.  Sorry fellow Tenno, they are.  

[Basalto]

45 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I kinda hate to say it, but the two builds you showed are kinda bad.  Well bad is somewhat strong. Let's say they aren't as efficient as they could be.  Sorry fellow Tenno, they are.  

Of course they aren't as efficient as they could be. I never said they were some kind of ultimate badassery or the alpha and the omega of meta builds. I'm simply saying they work better for me than the dumb suggestions of putting Split Chamber on a semi-automatic weapon.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

I'm simply saying they work better for me than the dumb suggestions of putting Split Chamber on a semi-automatic weapon.

as we've been trying to explain to you, it's not dumb, because it's literally better.

the worst case scenario of trading Hammershot for Split Chamber would be that you sometimes deal ~27% less Damage, in trade for every Shot before and after it, dealing double Damage and having higher Status.
which considering in that when you're using Semi-Auto, your Fire Rate is 7.8 and.... well, you're not oneshotting Enemies consistently with Tiberon Primes' Semi-Auto anyways (it hits moderately hard but it's not a Sniper Rifle or anything). since you expect to take multiple Shots anyways.... that only reinforces the benefit of the stronger choice.

^{_{(there's also that technically Burst is objectively superior to Semi but that's more of a personal preference thing so i'm not going to push that)}}

we're not derailing, because we're identifying that your reasoning that the benefit of a Mod should be made innate to all Weapons, is because of you specifically forcing yourself to not have space to consider the Mod choices the game presents you. and because of that, you want it for free. even though you're literally hurting yourself.

 

i think i've tried to use enough factual information to explain it to you. if that's not enough, then i give up.

Edited April 1, 2019 by taiiat

[Basalto]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

i think i've tried to use enough factual information to explain it to you. if that's not enough, then i give up.

I believe you should've given up the moment you decided to derail the thread constantly with your apologism to laziness, but that's just my two cents. Good riddance, really. Maybe this can finally go back to being a feedback thread instead of "ur bad if u criticize game".

[Guest]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

as we've been trying to explain to you, it's not dumb, because it's literally better.

the worst case scenario of trading Hammershot for Split Chamber would be that you sometimes deal ~27% less Damage, in trade for every Shot before and after it, dealing double Damage and having higher Status.
which considering in that when you're using Semi-Auto, your Fire Rate is 7.8 and.... well, you're not oneshotting Enemies consistently with Tiberon Primes' Semi-Auto anyways (it hits moderately hard but it's not a Sniper Rifle or anything). since you expect to take multiple Shots anyways.... that only reinforces the benefit of the stronger choice.

^{_{(there's also that technically Burst is objectively superior to Semi but that's more of a personal preference thing so i'm not going to push that)}}

we're not derailing, because we're identifying that your reasoning that the benefit of a Mod should be made innate to all Weapons, is because of you specifically forcing yourself to not have space to consider the Mod choices the game presents you. and because of that, you want it for free. even though you're literally hurting yourself.

 

i think i've tried to use enough factual information to explain it to you. if that's not enough, then i give up.

He doesn't trust hard mathematics so...

[Basalto]

18 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

He doesn't trust hard mathematics so...

I deal with them weekly, but please, let's keep derailing.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Basalto said:

"ur bad if u criticize game".

only if you criticize having to make choices, while also wanting to make choices. only then.
_{especially since you imply that i don't criticize Warframe - you don't know me very well then. but that's of less importance.}

[Basalto]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

only if you criticize having to make choices, while also wanting to make choices. only then.
_{especially since you imply that i don't criticize Warframe - you don't know me very well then. but that's of less importance.}

I already repeated my point several times, which you quickly dismissed with derailing and unreasonable apologism. I do believe you'd do well going forward with that "giving up" thing you were talking about earlier. It'd do both of us a huge favour.

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, Basalto said:

And we finally reach the trolling phase.

Because at this point there is nothing left to discuss.  You've made that very clear.  

[Basalto]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Because at this point there is nothing left to discuss.  You've made that very clear.  

If there's nothing left to discuss, move on to another post instead of posting unnecessary provocative garbage. Just because you're here, it doesn't mean you are forced to answer literally everything.

[DatDarkOne]

15 minutes ago, Basalto said:

Just because you're here, it doesn't mean you are forced to answer literally everything.

This is the price you pay for posting your thoughts and comments on a PUBLIC forum.  This topic could have been a nice discussion.  One that could have possibly given the Devs some insight to something they might not have been aware of.  I only commented in this topic as Devil's Advocate to represent DE's possible viewpoint in reading your suggestion/theory. 

It was your attitude that every comment that wasn't automatically agreeing with you as derailing, is what prompted my posting of the memes.  

That said, so far you haven't given a valid or logical reason for the Devs to make a change.  

[Basalto]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

This is the price you pay for posting your thoughts and comments on a PUBLIC forum.  This topic could have been a nice discussion.  One that could have possibly given the Devs some insight to something they might not have been aware of.  I only commented in this topic as Devil's Advocate to represent DE's possible viewpoint in reading your suggestion/theory. 

It was your attitude that every comment that wasn't automatically agreeing with you as derailing, is what prompted my posting of the memes.  

That said, so far you haven't given a valid or logical reason for the Devs to make a change.  

I posted feedback on the feedback section to give feedback. As it can very clearly be seen on the initial replies, I was more than willing to properly explain why I believe that removing death animations is a good thing and provided examples, such as the blocking of bullets and the incoherence with the weapon's actual power. What was replied was basically "but it's fine because it is" and "you're just bad at the game", nothing that offered any sort of proper discussion. To top it off, you snobs kept derailing it with pointless subjects that had nothing to do with the topic, trying to demean my reasoning with the amazing logic of "if you don't do X well, you have no say on Y".

I also provided examples like holstering speed and weapons that don't trigger death animations to explain my point. You also tried to shut it down with more pointless garbage that had nothing to do with the actual topic.

Then there was the straw man about me claiming that my builds were factually better, which I never did. I simply said they were what worked better for me and I explained why. What I got in return was more insulting and getting accused in the most elitist way of not "trusting mathematics", which is an absolutely douchy and snob way to claim someone's wrong. There was no need for any of that insulting and there was no need for any of that S#&$storm that you people were adamant on creating. I wanted to send feedback about something I found important and what I got was a bunch of rabid fanboys that can't handle the minimal amount of change in a game and have to resort to insulting. Seriously, get a life and stop pestering people like that.

[DatDarkOne]

No one insulted or accosted you.  So stop overreacting to somethin that wasn't there in the first place.  I saw the other things mentioned as a way to try to try to help you with something that you failed to properly convey in the topic itself.  That was on you.  

On 2019-04-01 at 10:06 AM, Basalto said:

My argument didn't even need to exist because you people had to keep twisting and derailing the thread into anything but the actual topic. Kinda reminds me why I left this place all those years ago.

This wouldn't have happened if you had properly described with example of what you actually meant in the opening post.  Heck, I didn't even get a clue until you mentioned Killing Floor 2.

Which still left a bit of confusion because after directly comparing the two, the difference in enemy death/falling animations is so small as to be nonexistent.   

If anyone in this whole topic has come off as elitist, douchy, or snobbish it has been you.  Calling people fanboys for trying to help after possibly misunderstanding your issue in the first place.  Then this last sentence of yours....

55 minutes ago, Basalto said:

I wanted to send feedback about something I found important and what I got was a bunch of rabid fanboys that can't handle the minimal amount of change in a game and have to resort to insulting. Seriously, get a life and stop pestering people like that.

The level of entitlement in this statement shows that everyone that bothered to comment in this topic has wasted their time.  You get a life and stop wasting other peoples time with this mess which is nothing more than a want of your that was badly presented.  If you have properly presented or explained it greater detail in the first place, we all could have seen it for what it really is.  Basically a change that isn't worth the dev time to implement for the minimal benefit at the most.  One that no one else has even mentioned as an issue in 6 years.  Get real, and stop trying to claim everything as an attack, insult, etc when it's not the case at all. 

[Basalto]

12 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Basically a change that isn't worth the dev time to implement for the minimal benefit at the most.

Developer impersonation is a bannable offense, as far as I'm aware of. You don't speak for the developers because you are not one of them, however, unless they forgot to put a little "[DE]" by your name, which I seriously doubt. Let the devs have the final decision on whats worth it and what's not. You talk about my "level of entitlement", yet you're the one pretending to talk for everyone else.