Feedback for Arbitration and Bugs

[Neonite]

I was always a person who likes to run hours of survivals so might be biased to like this but here it is anyhow: the changes are good. Still need more work though, but giving something for people like me to do apart from pointlessly grinding kuva or relics is great (atleast for the moment). Arbitrations in general are definitely a step in the right direction in terms of game design for veterans but it's important to not stop improving it. Here's the mode's current state's perks in tandem:

 

The Good

-New revive mechanic does a great job of relieving stress and necessity of cheese in the gameplay but still keeps a threat that needs you to be cautious. Has some problems (pointed below)

-Archgun Rivens

-Power bonuses randomize half of your loadout which incentivizes fresh experience without forcing it (although Strength on Hydroid, Loki Trinity, etc aren't quite amazing)

-The only Ayatan farm, pretty good at that anyhow

-One of few proper endgame activities

 

The Bad

-Shield drones are a bit of a pain to hit. It's probably intentional they zip around so much but it ends up being impossible to hit them with bows even at short ranges (although this is more of a sign that bows need faster projectiles)

-Pretty buggy

-Revival mechanic is a bit clunky due to points splitting among teammates easily and they can claim them by accident too

-Still lacking in rewards, both what you can buy and earn

-Cheesable thanks to Warframe's imbalance

-The lately common challenge design of 'ability immune' is challenging but in a very unfair way, making caster and cc frames much weaker than just invisible / facetanking ones

-Archgun Rivens (well... Archguns are not good)

-Pets still have permadeath

-Rewards Ayatans which is good for decoration but cannot justify itself as an Endo farm because there are way more effective ways to farm that. Needs more varied rewards

 

The Bugs

-The 'magenta' colored effect drones give often becomes invisible which confused me a lot as to why enemies ignore my damage, even worse if drone is unnoticable in a crows or tight corridors

-Enemies often become immune to abilities after losing the aura (identical to the nullifier bug that made enemies that exited the bubble immune to abilities)

-Sometimes possible to damage through drones aura, even with abilities.

 

Suggestions

-Add more Vitus essence rewards. I've seen the rest of riven mods thrown around as an idea, perhaps. Definitely not Kuva, reserve it for Taveuni (and make it scale at last, please). Designing cosmetics or other things is more of a backseat thing especially considering how busy devs are right now but it can be some generic things:

Relic Pack

Mod Pack

Slots ((frame, weapon, etc.) Would be a nice platinum alternative)

-Droptables need more things, rare mods perhaps (Condition Overload, etc.), Kuva (2k), etc.

-Incentive for people who want to stay for a REALLY long time. Perhaps a special reward every 1 hour? Like a doubled / tripled droptable drop at the mark or a specific reward like Anasa / Riven etc.

-Revives need to be improved - it's understandable devs wanted us to risk to revive a teammate but it ends up being clunky like mentioned above. What would fix it is that we could revive the teammate collectively, aka if we all stand at the station and we got 5 'rezz tokens' in total (even if between us) it would count. Also pet permadeath is pretty lame, perhaps make them exempt from the rule or allow us to revive them for 1 / 2 tokens?

-Increase drones' health from 35 to 90 and shields from 50 to 100 and instead reduce the power of aura to be a hybrid of Ancient Disruptor and Ancient Healer instead of complete immunity. Maybe make the drones even a bit more tanky.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by SubExodus

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, SubExodus said:

Suggestions

 

Relic Pack

Mod Pack

Slots ((frame, weapon, etc.) Would be a nice platinum alternative)

-Droptables need more things, rare mods perhaps (Condition Overload, etc.), Kuva (2k), etc.

-Incentive for people who want to stay for a REALLY long time. Perhaps a special reward every 1 hour? Like a doubled / tripled droptable drop at the mark or a specific reward like Anasa / Riven etc.

we do not need dilution of the drop table. if people want relics SO/ESO is the hotspot for that. if people want mod packs, you can get them from syndicate (thats why they put them there)

endo rewards need an increase period. enemies should be dropping 400 endo orbs when they drop and only high tier ayatan should be the ayatan rewards.

[Neonite]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

we do not need dilution of the drop table. if people want relics SO/ESO is the hotspot for that. if people want mod packs, you can get them from syndicate (thats why they put them there)

endo rewards need an increase period. enemies should be dropping 400 endo orbs when they drop and only high tier ayatan should be the ayatan rewards.

There are already Endo farming spots though, that was my point

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, SubExodus said:

There are already Endo farming spots though, that was my point

arbitration was made to offer an alternative and its a good one but it can be better. i personally dont like Rathuum and spamming bounties.

[Neonite]

9 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

arbitration was made to offer an alternative and its a good one but it can be better. i personally dont like Rathuum and spamming bounties.

Yeah, it is good to have alternatives. However i felt like for an endgame activity, rewarding Endo is a bit odd and perhaps bonus Endo can just be purchased for Vitus by those who need it as ayatans or just pure Endo packaging perhaps. Goes more to point that we need more things to buy for Vitus.

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

Yeah, it is good to have alternatives. However i felt like for an endgame activity, rewarding Endo is a bit odd and perhaps bonus Endo can just be purchased for Vitus by those who need it as ayatans or just pure Endo packaging perhaps. Goes more to point that we need more things to buy for Vitus.

i agree with this statement.

most end game builds will use R10 mods which take 30k+ endo. endo is good for everyone no matter which end of the spectrum you are on.

Edited April 25, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Neonite]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i agree with this statement.

most end game builds will use R10 mods which take 30k+ endo. endo is good for everyone no matter which end of the spectrum you are on.

Endo would be better as purely a purchase thing and the Arbitrations dropped something more universally needed. New players who manage to reach Arbitrations and still need Endo would just outright buy it. Ta-da!

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

Endo would be better as purely a purchase thing and the Arbitrations dropped something more universally needed. New players who manage to reach Arbitrations and still need Endo would just outright buy it. Ta-da!

but endo IS universally needed. instead of diluting the table though all those things like relics and mod packs could be added to be bought with the Vitus.

i mean i agree with you we need more things to buy with Vitus but not endo. i wouldnt mind drop tables having increasing amounts of vitus like 1 for Rot A 2 for Rot B and 3 for Rot C

[Neonite]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

but endo IS universally needed. instead of diluting the table though all those things like relics and mod packs could be added to be bought with the Vitus.

i mean i agree with you we need more things to buy with Vitus but not endo. i wouldnt mind drop tables having increasing amounts of vitus like 1 for Rot A 2 for Rot B and 3 for Rot C

We certainly need more Vitus especially since joke like Archgun rivens is TWENTY FIVE? Perhaps give it every one normal rotation (so twice as much for arb rot)

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, SubExodus said:

We certainly need more Vitus especially since joke like Archgun rivens is TWENTY FIVE? Perhaps give it every one normal rotation (so twice as much for arb rot)

i laughed when i saw archgun rivens. like why even?

[Neonite]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i laughed when i saw archgun rivens. like why even?

I think they want to make them matter more cause now they're actually weaker than our normal guns. The problem is that they're not for this game by design. In Destiny, power weapons are good cause you see a tough guy come out once in a few minutes. In this game having limited ammo on a stronger gun while being endlessly swarmed with enemies that also steadily get stronger over time is not good. But if the guns were atleast any better i wouldn't mind. Problem is, it's not worth investing into a gun with weaker mods and worse stats with limited ammo. They just need to buff them.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, SubExodus said:

I think they want to make them matter more cause now they're actually weaker than our normal guns. The problem is that they're not for this game by design. In Destiny, power weapons are good cause you see a tough guy come out once in a few minutes. In this game having limited ammo on a stronger gun while being endlessly swarmed with enemies that also steadily get stronger over time is not good. But if the guns were atleast any better i wouldn't mind. Problem is, it's not worth investing into a gun with weaker mods and worse stats with limited ammo. They just need to buff them.

agreed. they should have just buffed them.

[Jazz-deft]

Sorry in advance that I can not write in the right topic, but I noticed a flaw in the characters that sit by the sea in the level of "Tsedos" (Earth).
 Pay attention to their heads - they disappear when I turn the camera away from them a little, but it’s too soon than I’ll see them because they’ll go beyond the screen.
(I understand that this is done in order to relieve the computers of users, but heads disappear too early)

Here is the video file

[Slimspadey101]

14 hours ago, SubExodus said:

There are already Endo farming spots though, that was my point

Are you saying reward redundancy is an issue in and of itself? It appears consistently throughout the game. Profit-Taker vs Index for example.

[Neonite]

8 hours ago, Slimspadey101 said:

Are you saying reward redundancy is an issue in and of itself? It appears consistently throughout the game. Profit-Taker vs Index for example.

I said alternatives are good but they should prioritize rewarding more universally needed things. Veterans won't care about Endo

[CryptonicLove]

For me personally i think they definitely need to tweak the revive mechanic, this is by far my biggest disappointment with the update. Now i like that you can revive team mates but at the same time there are a few things i would like to see changed.

1: Cap on the number of points you can pick up when a team mate is downed: As it stands you can pick up more than 5 points when a team mate is downed, I would really like to see a cap on this since its not the index and you are not trying to score the most points you are going to pickup 5 and revive your team mate. I think a cap on how many you can pickup is a good thing since we cannot choose how many we want to pick and can pickup more than intended and reduce our health even further and with arbritrations having infested and grineer those toxin or slash procs could prove lethal if a player doesnt keep track of how many points they have picked up again since we dont have the option to limit the number of points we collect

2: Penalty for dying a lot/ Cap on the number of times you can be revived: Now as i have said i like the revive mechanic but i would also like to see a hard cap on the number of times you can be revived. Atm a player can die as many times as they can as long as they are revived by their team mates but i would like to see more penalty being imposed on the player dying each time rather than on the other team mates who are trying to revive him/her. As we know when we pick up points we get a health reduction and after we revive the dead player we do not recover that health back yet the player who is revived can come back at full health and shield with no penalty for dying. IMO i feel its very poorly designed on one hand they want to encourage team mates reviving dead players but at the same time actively punish them for doing so and not penalize the player who dies but the player/players who try and revive them.

Also a cap on the number of times they can die, i've had a few runs where a player keeps dying again and again and from what i've seen atleast there is no hard cap on the number of times you can as long as your team mates can revive you which again goes back to the point we need a hard cap so players who die can actually be penalized for not bringing the right frame or playing poorly. A penalty timer of some sort of debuff might work? or dying within a set timer after being revived means perma death?

3: Give surviving team mates more power/choices: Surviving players should have the option of not reviving the dead person. If a person keeps dying more than he/she should be then the others should have more the ability to not revive them (give a timer of some sort or vote?). As it is if say my team decides that a person is dying way too much and we choose not to revive, the other person could just sit there and force the arbritration drones to drop points and give us the debuff opening a whole new world of trolls and griefers. I feel after a certain period surviving players should have more option than be at the mercy of the dead team mate (aka kill drones pick up points and have to sit with the debuff) 

Now i would like to see these changes but this is only me tbh i definitely would like to see some changes to this. If a player is not prepared for arbritrations then they should be penalized for dying, before that meant perma death aka game over but with this update that sense of danger is no longer there which opens up a wide range of issues. AKA people dying then waiting to be revived and then bam leave game and the rest are stucked with the debuff. If you want players to revive fallen team mates you need to give them an incentive to do so and not the opposite.

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by CryptonicLove

[_Blackwatch_]

If DE wanted to give us an "ENDGAME" mode where we can push our skills and have fun while doing it, they would give us something else not the previous or the current arbritation mode. DE is more than capable of delivering an "ENDGAME" mode, they have proven time and again they are competent in giving us magnificent content but when it comes to the "ENDGAME" issue i feel DE pulls punches, closes eyes and blocks ears. Arbritation needs to be reinvented if my opinion carries any weight this is how the Arbritation game mode can be better.

Freedom of choice and diversity: Please take away the hourly mission rotations and give us the opportunity to choose the different games modes within the game itself. e.g if people only want to play and endgame survival let it be option available to players, if players want to switch and play excavation let it be an option available same with defense and interception.The reason I stress the freedom of choices when it comes the endless missions is that each endless mission has the potential to focus on a DIFFERENT REWARD TYPE(will go in more detail later). 

Rewards and Rotations: Okay one of the main problems we face with Abritation is the 10min reward rotation. In most cases players lose interest after 10min of arbritation  it feels unrewarding and inconsistent compared to the normal survival 5min. In my 1st paragraph I stated the importance of freedom of choice and diversity in the arbriation game mode going further to say it can give us different reward types for different game modes, this is where i explain with examples how this can work and make arbritation more enjoyable and rewarding. First and foremost please bring back the 5min reward rotation to keep players interested and motivated if(only if) that is not an option it is still possible keep players interested buy making FIXED(not endless) game modes with big rewards at the end of the mission. Example 1: Players only get rewarded by receiving a Legendary Core etc. if mission objective required them to survive for 1hr20 min, in this case there are no reward rotations, the mission will continue and increase with intensity. As for the rewards themselves here are examples of different reward types in different missions Example 2: an endless endgame survival game mode can focus on giving players Endo as the focus reward this can expand not to just Endo and Sculptures but also Ayatan Stars as a reward. Example 3: Endless defense missions can focus on Forma as a reward type heck maybe Omega and Umbral forma can be thrown in. The rewards can be paired together in different missions. Example 4:  Forma and Ayatan Sculptures for Excavation and Defense and Endo and Kuva for Survival and Interception. 

You only live once but the afterlife is rough: One good thing that came with the Arbritation game mode is the one life death penalty, not only did it challenge players but it also pushed players to be strategic and creative with their game decisions. This update where players can revive fellow teammates is simply a no, it takes away the exciting innovative gameplay and adds mundane routine strategies to certain play styles. If really a revive system is needed(only if needed) it should be a whipping not a slap on the wrist at the expense of another tenno's wrist. Example 1: If the game mode is defense, players who die while in mission not only get have to wait until next wave to revive but get 10% less of rewards, reduced health,shields and damage permanently for the duration of the mission. This is the scenario: 15 Waves completed, going for Wave 20, died in Wave 18, I want to revive for  Wave 21-25, wait until team gets to Wave 20, revived in Wave 21, i don't receive Wave 20 rewards(obviously) + (-10%) reward de-buff at Wave25 and beyond.(NB the more you die the more de-buff you sustain) This is where tokens or chips can be applied, if players want to secure a revive they can collect tokens from enemies and use it to revive if they if they die without collecting the chips they cant revive and they die for good.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster and BEST OF ALL NO  DRONES:   What i personally hated about abriatation was the drones, it killed my momentum and my interest in the arbretation game mode. Making the enemies immune to the damage was really a game breaker for me, it was because of this i stopped playing arbritation. So i propose that we do away with the drones and replace them with buffed eximus enemies (not sure if that's how its spelled). Example 1: Let's say we are up against Grineer for every eximus Nox in the area, the Grineer receive added bonus damage and armor go big in size not only that enemies are more aggressive making the mobs a harder to kill, kill the "Field Commander" reduce the buff. This can apply for all the enemy factions, it will keep the game mode challenging while keeping the flow of play.

Surprise Boss fights: Yes this one might be strange but hear me out when Nightwave came out and i was attacked by Wolf in my survival mission it brought a new dynamic to my game play what made it even more amazing it was totally unexpected. Boss fights between Waves and time frames will add a challenging and exciting atmosphere to the reinvention of arbritation. Example 1: Lets say we are up against Corpus and we are surprised by Alad V as a Boss Fight in a survival mission while trying to maintain your life support players must defeat the heavily buffed Alad V that is accompanied by a truck load of enemies. Players must 1st take out his utility and support infantry otherwise players will not be able to damage Alad V.(this is the only time i will except immune drones only in boss fights)

Please Fellow Tenno lets have our voices heard, if we let this issue go unresolved we will get more issues like this in the future

Share this with other Tenno and lets have a proper ENDGAME MODE

Thank you for your contribution

Blackwatch

[lindenbrock]

Skimmed this thread and didnt see mention of this. TLDR revive is pointless as you trigger the afk timer and lose all rewards earned so far. Oh cool aura forma bp dropped? Sucks that you died, no bp for you. Might as well leave when you die, which is what the revive system was meant to prevent

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by lindenbrock