Nitain,how new players got the facepalm.

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

Ways to get nitain for primes

Night wave.

Sabotage (voids? I forgot where).

So,there has to be a reliable way to farm this, especially if the "prime market" is to survive. Alot of frames require the use of nitain,even the new aura forma requires 10.

Right now sabotage has a near non-existent drop rate for nitain,which before the removal of the alerts no one ran. Now,you can spend a whole 6 hours for a possible 1-3 chance. That's not great odds or worth our time when some frames require quite alot.

 

Solution: increase the sabotage rate to a flat 15% chance for the first cache,increased by 5% for each cache found for a 25% chance on the 3rd cache found.

(Refer to my 2nd post for explanation if confused)

 

Quit making primes even less desirable by making the resources a pain to obtain. That's all. Market suffers,new players can't build the frames they want,veteran players can't sell off said frames bc no one wants that farm. This hurts the game overall as a community & from a "business" aspect.

Edited May 22, 2019 by (PS4)Glitchoid

[krc473]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

olution: increase the sabotage rate to a flat 15% chance for the first cache,increased by 5% for each cache found for a 25% chance on the 3rd cache found.

I do not see this as a viable solution from DE's perceptive. You are taking something which is meant to have artificial rarity (obtained through alerts/low drop rates) and are making it a very common drop. Why would DE do this? I would not like to see those drop tables filled with Nitains as there are other 'useful' rewards in there too. Why sacrifice that just so people can get Nitains easily? I would suggest a more sensible drop chance - maybe 2.5/5.0/7.5% for cache One/Two/Three.

• Note: I have no need to get more Nitains. So it is possible I am biased. 

 

What DE should do is just return Nitain alerts while Nightwave is absent. Or have them drop in weekend tactical alerts. We do not know if season two is next week or six months from now. 

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

5 hours ago, krc473 said:

I do not see this as a viable solution from DE's perceptive. You are taking something which is meant to have artificial rarity (obtained through alerts/low drop rates) and are making it a very common drop. Why would DE do this? I would not like to see those drop tables filled with Nitains as there are other 'useful' rewards in there too. Why sacrifice that just so people can get Nitains easily? I would suggest a more sensible drop chance - maybe 2.5/5.0/7.5% for cache One/Two/Three.

• Note: I have no need to get more Nitains. So it is possible I am biased. 

 

What DE should do is just return Nitain alerts while Nightwave is absent. Or have them drop in weekend tactical alerts. We do not know if season two is next week or six months from now. 

Feel free to list the more "valuable" things the caches drop for that specific mission type.

Your end statement sold you quite short. Right now the nitain has a 0.1%ish drop rate.

Hunting caches can take up to 15 minutes a run,even with a dedicated headset to hear the ping they emit.

This drastically hurts any interest of new players when they come across a item they want,but night wave is not the solution as outside of Dev stream alerts,their wolf credits are better used on potato's,which are not cheap by any means within that market & will be what newer players will seek out.

Nitain should have at least the rarity of origin cells,but they don't in actuality. They had a 3 per day system,which still kept players from wanting to "farm" them and have to wait. 

Having a resource behind a wall of such is simply bad for the overall economy. People who enjoy the game only to find their favorite of the moment is locked behind a abyss of a chance or a time gate will detour them to play other games,I wouldn't have stuck around for nearly as long if I spent 20 hours a week for 3 nitain. 

I attempted to farm this,just for the joy of it with a full squad. Our average time was around 12-15 minutes per run. Caches are not as easy to find as some may think when you have to memorize every tileset involved overall.

I should make my statement a bit clearer on how I meant the caches increased effect the drop chance.

1 cache: 15% chance that cache has nitain

2 cache: 20% chance that 1 cache has nitain

3 cache: 25% chance that 1 caches has nitain.

This would not break the economy,but encourage the "grinders" out there to seek them out then simply wait. For a newer player,this would be a source they can rely on,but not always get per run invested. 

Rewards are already in question within the game,a resource directed to their main source of income can result in deminished returns overall.

Example: Mr4 wants a Mesa prime,but can not get anything sold on the trade market. Purchases the 175 plat bundle,because it's relatively cheap,to buy a set off another player. Gets the set, find out they need a "nitain" amount. Upon asking a friend,clan member or alliance (or just wiki) they find out it's got the lowest drop chance from a mission,but is relatively easy to gain during a certain event. Let's say that event just ended,they now start to grind that mission only to spend several days even weeks to attempt to get their prime building,but only obtained a select few by chance. They lose interest because they do not want to invest anymore time towards the grind,feeling such they retire the game due to feeling locked out of content due to such drop rates.

Not sure if mesa does use such,just a example.

Time invested vrs rewards achieved is a big issue in any game,most older players know what a "true grinder" game once was because they were forced into it just to enjoy the game. That's not this era anymore,rewards already are lack luster at most and only fissures feel worth the RNG chance for time invested. 

My point being: both younger generations and older would find being locked from the higher appeal of the game is bad overall.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by (PS4)Glitchoid

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

Mobile auto correct

[krc473]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

Feel free to list the more "valuable" things the caches drop for that specific mission type.

Well, to name a few: Xiphos parts, Pre-built Forma, rare mods (I.e. Bite, Shell Shock, Bullet Dance etc). If you want to see the full drops, the Wiki has them.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

I should make my statement a bit clearer on how I meant the caches increased effect the drop chance

This is not logical as nothing else in the game functions like that. So your first post was confusing, and I was working with you wanting to get one per Cache with increasing chance per cache.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

Our average time was around 12-15 minutes per run.

You should be able to halve this time. My friend and I used to do Void Sabotage in around 6 or 7 minutes. One person does the mission, the other does caches. If you do T2 then you have a 2% chance for Nitain.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

They had a 3 per day system

No, they didn’t. The alerts were four per day.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

Your end statement sold you quite short. Right now the nitain has a 0.1%ish drop rate.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I don’t know what my end statement is in your eyes. I would assume the tactical alert/alert proposal. But I have no idea how you got that this was ‘sold short’. The drop rate is not 0.1%. I have gotten 5 from 15 runs previously. It comes down to luck.

 

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

15 hours ago, krc473 said:

Well, to name a few: Xiphos parts, Pre-built Forma, rare mods (I.e. Bite, Shell Shock, Bullet Dance etc). If you want to see the full drops, the Wiki has them.

This is not logical as nothing else in the game functions like that. So your first post was confusing, and I was working with you wanting to get one per Cache with increasing chance per cache.

You should be able to halve this time. My friend and I used to do Void Sabotage in around 6 or 7 minutes. One person does the mission, the other does caches. If you do T2 then you have a 2% chance for Nitain.

No, they didn’t. The alerts were four per day.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I don’t know what my end statement is in your eyes. I would assume the tactical alert/alert proposal. But I have no idea how you got that this was ‘sold short’. The drop rate is not 0.1%. I have gotten 5 from 15 runs previously. It comes down to luck.

 

Can't deny that is was confusing at first, probably should edit that.

As for the drops you mentioned,alot of those are only T2 drops. I am discussing early game players,not us vets. Uranus has a 1.01% rate,which I believe is the stopping point for lower MR before further progression. The void (where they can also go) is the same. That's not very encouraging.

Yeah you and your friends can do so in that time,but what about new players who actually have to learn and memorize those spots? Not the same downtime spent hunting as a VETERAN of the game.

I stand corrected on the old alert system,as I was ever awake for 3/4 of those alerts.

You sold yourself short because you mentioned it as a alert,like they use to be,or a event based item. That means gathering them is still limited and restricted,hurting the overall economy & income of the game. No primes = no reason to continue to want to play. Frames are the "characters" of the game,having a prime variant to grants small bonuses,but can add a degree of visual differences in the frame while also being able to keep it's old skin selectable.

[krc473]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

You sold yourself short because you mentioned it as a alert,like they use to be,or a event based item.

I am not sure that makes sense in the context. But I get what you mean. Simple put: DE is unlikely to implement your suggestion, it makes getting them far, far too easy. Being able to get them through weekend tactical alerts, or just the old alert system are more suitable options. These are something DE could do without completely trivialising it. 

• Why should DE not give as alerts/events to get nitains until Nightwave returns?
• PC anyway is getting the new operation soon. Maybe that will have Nitains in it? Yes, this does nothing for console so it is not a good solution. But it would work for PC.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

Not the same downtime spent hunting as a VETERAN of the game.

You failed to try and determine if my friends and I were veterans at the time. I did not say it was recently at all. This is something we did when tower keys were a thing. You got a bonus prime part if you got all three caches. It took very few runs to learn where they were, and optimise our runs. I am talking under 10 runs to get the time to about 6 - 7 mins. Your argument against this seems to be "but new players don't know". That is true, but that is also a terrible argument - it relies on them failing to learn anything from the runs they do. The more you run, the better you will get.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

Uranus has a 1.01% rate,which I believe is the stopping point for lower MR before further progression.

Do PS4 players not help each other out at all? On PC you could find a group of players to taxi you to the highest drop chance place and run it with you. I mean, I would have no issue taking people there myself.

[Shalath]

I'd be surprised in NW2 doesn't launch with this weeks patch which is probably due in a few hours.

[(PSN)Ghent96]

I'm new. Can confirm. Not having a nitain, along with countless other resources that I have no effing rational in-game cues in where to find, is extremely frustrating and punishing.

Oh, fun, I just found an egg, let's hatch it....no... No, I just played thru earth, Venus, mercury... And I need stuff found on URANUS or Ceres or somet.  Oh, joy, I found some excalibur parts (I started with Volt), let's build him!  ...no... No I need stuff you can only find in Saturn or the void, and they're impossibly above my level. >_<

Who's listening and tweaking, DE?  We don't need more frames and mission types, we need some balance, and some big fixes.